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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Naizam on Tuesday 12 January 21 03:18 GMT (UK)

Title: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: Naizam on Tuesday 12 January 21 03:18 GMT (UK)
Good day all,

I'm searching for information on a soldier for whom I have the following information:

Name: Hubert John Hawkins
Service Number: 31194
Regiment: King's Regiment (Liverpool)

I'm not sure where to begin looking for further information. I found a UK, WWI Pension Ledgers and Index Card card (attached) on Fold3 via Ancestry. However, I'm not having luck finding more info there - likely 'cause I don't know what to search for.


Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 12 January 21 07:56 GMT (UK)
H J Hawkins
Age   26
Death  01 Oct 1918
Number   31194
Rank   Private
Unit   1st/5th Bn.
Regiment   The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Grave reference   D. 8.
Cemetery or memorial   St. Vaast Communal Cemetery Extension
Burial country   France
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/247208/H%20J%20HAWKINS/
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: cath151 on Tuesday 12 January 21 08:47 GMT (UK)
Sorry, wrong info found   :-[
Cathy
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: cath151 on Tuesday 12 January 21 08:55 GMT (UK)
Looks like Phyllis Mary Hawkins married again in 1920 London to a Charles Henry Moth.
Aged 25, 50 Peerless buildings, father Edward James Clark.

Cathy
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: cath151 on Tuesday 12 January 21 09:10 GMT (UK)
There is a tree on Ancestry with Phyllis Mary Clark and family married to a Henry J Hawkins ( but no details of him unfortunately.
Married Holborn ( in tree no details) but Peerless Buildings are in Holborn.
Cathy
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: tonepad on Tuesday 12 January 21 09:13 GMT (UK)
H J Hawkins
Age   26
Death  01 Oct 1918
Number   31194
Rank   Private
Unit   1st/5th Bn.
Regiment   The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Grave reference   D. 8.
Cemetery or memorial   St. Vaast Communal Cemetery Extension
Burial country   France
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/247208/H%20J%20HAWKINS/


This soldier was Henry James Hawkins:

Name:   Henry James Hawkins
Death Date:   1 Oct 1918
Death Place:   France and Flanders
Enlistment Place:   London
Rank:   Private
Regiment:   Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Battalion:   1st 5th Battalion (Territorial Force)
Regimental Number:   31194


Tony
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: Jebber on Tuesday 12 January 21 09:16 GMT (UK)
If you mean you are looking for more information on his Military Service, you need to be aware that between 60% and 79% of WW1 records were lost owing to enemy action in WW2.
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 12 January 21 14:26 GMT (UK)
H J Hawkins
Age   26
Death  01 Oct 1918
Number   31194
Rank   Private
Unit   1st/5th Bn.
Regiment   The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Grave reference   D. 8.
Cemetery or memorial   St. Vaast Communal Cemetery Extension
Burial country   France
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/247208/H%20J%20HAWKINS/


This soldier was Henry James Hawkins:

Name:   Henry James Hawkins
Death Date:   1 Oct 1918
Death Place:   France and Flanders
Enlistment Place:   London
Rank:   Private
Regiment:   Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Battalion:   1st 5th Battalion (Territorial Force)
Regimental Number:   31194


Tony

I posted that information as the record shows the same service number as on the image on OP's first post
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: ShaunJ on Tuesday 12 January 21 14:51 GMT (UK)
Hawkins 31194 was in A Company, I Platoon of 5 Battalion and was posted missing on 1/10/1918. This Red Cross enquiry has him as Jas Henry: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FNMPWW1ENQUIRY%2F126833
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: Naizam on Thursday 14 January 21 03:42 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for your responses.

The reason I know it's Hubert John Hawkins is because of the newspaper clip of his wedding to our ancestor Phyllis Mary Crawford (attached). I know she remarried another soldier (William Van Horne) but did not know why and - this second marriage happened in 1956. The military pension card in my OP came from an Ancestry hint. That's the only information i have and am searching for more, including birth records, marriage records, etc...

So am I to understand there are two individuals with the same service member?
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 14 January 21 06:28 GMT (UK)
“Your” Hubert John Hawkins must be a different man.   The one who died WW1 would obviously not be marrying in 1948.


Possible births that might be him

HAWKINS, HUBERT  JOHN  mother’s maiden name    BEESLEY 
GRO Reference: 1914  S Quarter in HEADINGTON  Volume 03A  Page 2177

HAWKINS, HUBERT  JOHN    Mother’s maiden name TRIGG 
GRO Reference: 1917  J Quarter in FAVERSHAM  Volume 02A  Page 1530

HAWKINS, HUBERT  JOHN     mother’s maiden name GRINDLE 
GRO Reference: 1921  S Quarter in MONMOUTH  Volume 11A  Page 48
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 14 January 21 06:34 GMT (UK)
Your clip says parents are Mr A.H.

There is this marriage

Marriages Dec 1913   (>99%)
Beesley    Florence K    Hawkins    Oxford    3a   2105   
Hawkins    Arthur H    Beesley    Oxford    3a   2105   
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 14 January 21 06:39 GMT (UK)
Hubert and Phyllis are on a passenger list returning to UK from New York last address Malaya 1950

Address in UK 111 Botley Road Oxford.
She is 32 he is 35 and an electrical engineer


From baptism father is Arthur Hubert and mother is Florence Kate


added - in October of the same year, they are going back to Malaya via Singapore.
Phyllis is only 28 this time :-)
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 14 January 21 08:12 GMT (UK)
Service Numbers in WW2 were 8-digit numbers ;D
(I think that changed in 1920?)

Ancestry hints are all very well, but they aren't all that accurate!
They need to be treated with a huge pinch of salt ;D
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 14 January 21 09:13 GMT (UK)
It looks as though A Hubert John HAWKINS (but as we have seen there are several) was a temporary electrical Lieutenant in the Navy. Stays on in the volunteer reserve post war.  That would explain how Phyllis met him if that is the man.

It does fit with him being an electrical engineer
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 14 January 21 10:09 GMT (UK)
Quote
So am I to understand there are two individuals with the same service member?

No - just two men named H J Hawkins who each married a girl named Phyllis Mary, 35 years apart.

There is a wedding photo of your couple in the Straits Times of 22 March 1949

https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/Digitised/Article/straitstimes19490322-1.2.84
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 14 January 21 10:21 GMT (UK)
He had a sister Jeanne Mary Hawkins b 1918. Trained as a nurse. She married Robert Hugh Percival. A doctor.

Their wedding photograph The Tatler 17 September 1941
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: Naizam on Friday 15 January 21 04:14 GMT (UK)
You all are amazing!

Mckha489, how are you finding this info ??? Where ??? Some pointer please :)
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 15 January 21 08:48 GMT (UK)
info in Reply 10 came from the GRO site.

www.gro.gov.uk - it is free to register and then search.  If you wanted to purchase a certificate this is where you would do it.  Births and Deaths come as PDFs by email, but Marriages have to be posted

Once I had those 3 births, I went looking for marriages at www.Freebmd.org.uk   Using the two surnames thus garnered,  looking for one where the husband was A.H. Hawkins. Luckily none of the others had the same initials!

The baptism mentioned in reply #12 is on Ancestry as is one of the passenger lists. The other one is at FindMyPast.

the Navy lists are on Ancestry

Details of the sister found in the same way at GRO
Found her on the 1939 register and that gave her name change.  Their parents can also be found on the register.

Using FreeBMD you can see some possible children of Jeanne, the sister born in the 1940s.

The Tatler piece is in the newspaper archive on FindMyPast, but you can also use the British Newspaper Archive https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk and if you have never joined that before there are 3 free looks.

Hope that all makes sense.
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: Naizam on Sunday 17 January 21 21:56 GMT (UK)
Thank You Thank You Thank You

I wish there were a concise page / manual to help newbies with genealogy research!

In it's absence I truly value this board and the insights and knowledge of it's members!
Title: Re: Hubert John Hawkins - Service Number 31194
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 17 January 21 22:15 GMT (UK)
You are welcome.
One learns an awful lot just following posts on here. But also on here is a big section for beginners :-)


https://www.rootschat.com/forum/beginners/