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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Naizam on Tuesday 12 January 21 03:18 GMT (UK)
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Good day all,
I'm searching for information on a soldier for whom I have the following information:
Name: Hubert John Hawkins
Service Number: 31194
Regiment: King's Regiment (Liverpool)
I'm not sure where to begin looking for further information. I found a UK, WWI Pension Ledgers and Index Card card (attached) on Fold3 via Ancestry. However, I'm not having luck finding more info there - likely 'cause I don't know what to search for.
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H J Hawkins
Age 26
Death 01 Oct 1918
Number 31194
Rank Private
Unit 1st/5th Bn.
Regiment The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Grave reference D. 8.
Cemetery or memorial St. Vaast Communal Cemetery Extension
Burial country France
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/247208/H%20J%20HAWKINS/
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Sorry, wrong info found :-[
Cathy
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Looks like Phyllis Mary Hawkins married again in 1920 London to a Charles Henry Moth.
Aged 25, 50 Peerless buildings, father Edward James Clark.
Cathy
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There is a tree on Ancestry with Phyllis Mary Clark and family married to a Henry J Hawkins ( but no details of him unfortunately.
Married Holborn ( in tree no details) but Peerless Buildings are in Holborn.
Cathy
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H J Hawkins
Age 26
Death 01 Oct 1918
Number 31194
Rank Private
Unit 1st/5th Bn.
Regiment The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Grave reference D. 8.
Cemetery or memorial St. Vaast Communal Cemetery Extension
Burial country France
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/247208/H%20J%20HAWKINS/
This soldier was Henry James Hawkins:
Name: Henry James Hawkins
Death Date: 1 Oct 1918
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: London
Rank: Private
Regiment: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Battalion: 1st 5th Battalion (Territorial Force)
Regimental Number: 31194
Tony
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If you mean you are looking for more information on his Military Service, you need to be aware that between 60% and 79% of WW1 records were lost owing to enemy action in WW2.
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H J Hawkins
Age 26
Death 01 Oct 1918
Number 31194
Rank Private
Unit 1st/5th Bn.
Regiment The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Grave reference D. 8.
Cemetery or memorial St. Vaast Communal Cemetery Extension
Burial country France
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/247208/H%20J%20HAWKINS/
This soldier was Henry James Hawkins:
Name: Henry James Hawkins
Death Date: 1 Oct 1918
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: London
Rank: Private
Regiment: Loyal North Lancashire Regiment
Battalion: 1st 5th Battalion (Territorial Force)
Regimental Number: 31194
Tony
I posted that information as the record shows the same service number as on the image on OP's first post
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Hawkins 31194 was in A Company, I Platoon of 5 Battalion and was posted missing on 1/10/1918. This Red Cross enquiry has him as Jas Henry: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FNMPWW1ENQUIRY%2F126833
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Thank you all for your responses.
The reason I know it's Hubert John Hawkins is because of the newspaper clip of his wedding to our ancestor Phyllis Mary Crawford (attached). I know she remarried another soldier (William Van Horne) but did not know why and - this second marriage happened in 1956. The military pension card in my OP came from an Ancestry hint. That's the only information i have and am searching for more, including birth records, marriage records, etc...
So am I to understand there are two individuals with the same service member?
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“Your” Hubert John Hawkins must be a different man. The one who died WW1 would obviously not be marrying in 1948.
Possible births that might be him
HAWKINS, HUBERT JOHN mother’s maiden name BEESLEY
GRO Reference: 1914 S Quarter in HEADINGTON Volume 03A Page 2177
HAWKINS, HUBERT JOHN Mother’s maiden name TRIGG
GRO Reference: 1917 J Quarter in FAVERSHAM Volume 02A Page 1530
HAWKINS, HUBERT JOHN mother’s maiden name GRINDLE
GRO Reference: 1921 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 48
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Your clip says parents are Mr A.H.
There is this marriage
Marriages Dec 1913 (>99%)
Beesley Florence K Hawkins Oxford 3a 2105
Hawkins Arthur H Beesley Oxford 3a 2105
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Hubert and Phyllis are on a passenger list returning to UK from New York last address Malaya 1950
Address in UK 111 Botley Road Oxford.
She is 32 he is 35 and an electrical engineer
From baptism father is Arthur Hubert and mother is Florence Kate
added - in October of the same year, they are going back to Malaya via Singapore.
Phyllis is only 28 this time :-)
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Service Numbers in WW2 were 8-digit numbers ;D
(I think that changed in 1920?)
Ancestry hints are all very well, but they aren't all that accurate!
They need to be treated with a huge pinch of salt ;D
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It looks as though A Hubert John HAWKINS (but as we have seen there are several) was a temporary electrical Lieutenant in the Navy. Stays on in the volunteer reserve post war. That would explain how Phyllis met him if that is the man.
It does fit with him being an electrical engineer
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So am I to understand there are two individuals with the same service member?
No - just two men named H J Hawkins who each married a girl named Phyllis Mary, 35 years apart.
There is a wedding photo of your couple in the Straits Times of 22 March 1949
https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/Digitised/Article/straitstimes19490322-1.2.84
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He had a sister Jeanne Mary Hawkins b 1918. Trained as a nurse. She married Robert Hugh Percival. A doctor.
Their wedding photograph The Tatler 17 September 1941
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You all are amazing!
Mckha489, how are you finding this info ??? Where ??? Some pointer please :)
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info in Reply 10 came from the GRO site.
www.gro.gov.uk - it is free to register and then search. If you wanted to purchase a certificate this is where you would do it. Births and Deaths come as PDFs by email, but Marriages have to be posted
Once I had those 3 births, I went looking for marriages at www.Freebmd.org.uk Using the two surnames thus garnered, looking for one where the husband was A.H. Hawkins. Luckily none of the others had the same initials!
The baptism mentioned in reply #12 is on Ancestry as is one of the passenger lists. The other one is at FindMyPast.
the Navy lists are on Ancestry
Details of the sister found in the same way at GRO
Found her on the 1939 register and that gave her name change. Their parents can also be found on the register.
Using FreeBMD you can see some possible children of Jeanne, the sister born in the 1940s.
The Tatler piece is in the newspaper archive on FindMyPast, but you can also use the British Newspaper Archive https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk and if you have never joined that before there are 3 free looks.
Hope that all makes sense.
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Thank You Thank You Thank You
I wish there were a concise page / manual to help newbies with genealogy research!
In it's absence I truly value this board and the insights and knowledge of it's members!
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You are welcome.
One learns an awful lot just following posts on here. But also on here is a big section for beginners :-)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/beginners/