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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Rw2 on Wednesday 13 January 21 03:45 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
My great great grandmother was a Mary Campbell who was born in 1820 or 1821 in Scotland (or so she reported to a census-taker). I don't know where in Scotland she was born or to whom, but I do know that she was Roman Catholic and that she was disowned when she became pregnant with one Mary-Ann to whom my great great grandfather John Bertram was the father. Mary-Ann or Mary-Anne was born less than 9 mos. after her parents were married in St. Augustine's Catholic church in Rustico, Prince Edward Island. I don't assume she was disowned immediately as she and John were married in a Catholic church, but she was eventually or soon enough according to what I had been told by elderly relatives in the early 1990s. I'm a bit surprised that she would have been Catholic with the surname Campbell, as the Campbell clan is a prime candidate for the most enfranchised in Scotland, certainly in 1820 or 1821, and I understand that the Catholic population was quite small in Scotland at that time as well. But I understand that a substantial portion of the Scots-Catholic population emigrated to Atlantic Canada, to Cape Breton Island and Prince Edward Island specifically from Gaelic-speaking regions (today it's said that more Scots-Gaelic is spoken in Cape Breton than in Scotland). I came across a message board recently in which a man from Cape Breton who descends from a Catholic Campbell who emigrated to that Island, questioned the tradition in his family that his ancestor was from North Uist. It could well have been on this very site as I've found, or refound, this.: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=153724.9 Was that possible he asked, as he understood that North Uist was Protestant and South Uist was Catholic? 1 or 2 contributors responded that there were some Catholics in North Uist as well. The fact that this man's Catholic Campbell ancestor came from either Uist is the only evidence or slight clue that I've come across as to where Mary Campbell might have come from. That, and something I read once which was written in another message board that the writer believed there were Catholic Campbells on the North shore of Loch Tay (but which seems to be a bit exposed for Catholics in an age when they were really picked on). I wonder how I might learn about the provenance and any history of Catholic Campbells in Scotland. How long were there Campbells in the Hebrides or in Catholic territory in Scotland?
I'd be fascinated to read any information or any advice that anyone might have to share and I'd be very appreciative.
Thank you!
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Catholic Campbells in Brae Lochaber also, MacGlasserich's & MacGlashan's among them, who followed MacDonnel of Keppoch.
"Bygone Lochaber!" S.MacMillan.
Skoosh.
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Rw2
There are and were Catholic Campbells everywhere.
At one time a Priest would travel a circuit to different parishes who were without a church or a Priest and conduct mass, christenings and marriages two or three times/year. The one that comes to mind was out of Uist. At Fort William a Priest also did same. And then I remember reading of a Priest dying and a CoS Minister filled in until a replaced was found. That I stumbled across in the British news paper archive.
Here is a link to the RC Parishes https://www.findmypast.com/articles/scotland-roman-catholic-parish-list
There are more Scottish Gaelic speakers in Scotland than in the Maritimes. But, there were also just as many Irish Gaelic speakers there which skews the numbers. In 2011 Census there were only 1,035 speakers in the Maritimes. Scotland had 57,375.
I assume you obtained Mary's marriage in the Druin Collection. If not you should look their because they are copies of the originals and typically have more information that may help you in your search.
Don
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Thanks very much!
DonM, you write that "there are and were Catholic Campbells everywhere." I had read somewhere, and more than once, that the Catholic population of Scotland was @ a mere 3 percent. Just a quick look at Wikipedia and I read: "By the eighteenth century, Catholicism had been reduced to the fringes of the country, particularly the Gaelic-speaking areas of the Highlands and Islands. Numbers probably reduced in the seventeenth century and organisation had deteriorated. ... Clergy entered the country secretly and although services were illegal they were maintained. In 1755, it was estimated that there were only 16,500 communicants, mainly in the north and west, although the number is probably an underestimate. By the end of the century this had probably fallen by a quarter due to emigration. ... In 1799, the Lowland District seminary was transferred to Aquhorthies, near Inverurie in Aberdeenshire, so that it could serve the entire country. It was secretly funded by the government, who were concerned at the scale of emigration by Highland Catholics." Well it does say that the numbers were likely underestimated. But according to Karly Kehoe in her article 'Creating a Scottish Church: Catholicism, Gender and Ethnicity in Nineteenth-Century Scotland' "The growth of Catholicism in nineteenth-century Scotland was astounding (due in large part to Irish immigration, in particular during after the outset of the famine.) (But) At the beginning of the century, Scotland was overwhelmingly Presbyterian and Calvinist, and part of a United Kingdom that perceived its identity as fundamentally Protestant. There were only about 30,000 Scottish Catholics, representing less than two percent of the Scottish population - a small remnant that had survived centuries of persecution and was confined largely to the more remote Highlands and Islands."
- As for the number of Gaelic speakers in Cape Breton outnumbering those in Scotland, I've heard that more than once as well. It seems it's a myth. But it's interesting to read that in the mid-19th cent., Gaelic was the 3rd language spoken in what is now Canada after English French and excluding indigenous languages.
- I will look at the Drouin collection, thank you, this is the 1st I've heard of it. I'm about to explore where your link to the RC parishes leads as well.
- And Skoosh thank you very much as well. I will learn what I can about Lochaber and whereabouts Catholic Campbells might have been situated there in the 1820s.
Sincerely,
Rob in Toronto
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@ Rob. I think there are still Catholic Campbell's in Glen Spean, the map in the covers of "Bygone Lochaber" has them centred on Fersit & Inverlair. Their origin being said to be from Glassary, Argyle in 1497, hence Glasserich.
Post Culloden, a delegation of these Campbell's set off to plead their case to Campbell of Glenorchy claiming their kinship and stated that the men of 30 Glasserich Campbell families were forced into the Rebellion by Keppoch so offered to surrender their arms to a Campbell, be he General Campbell his son or Lord Loudon. The General, while not wishing to encourage them in any of their clannish principles, directed them to Lord Loudon's HQ at Sherramore near the head of the Spey.
Not all the Brae Lochaber Campbell's were of that stock, the MacGlashan Campbell's were hereditary pipers to the Keppoch family & Archbishop Campbell of Glasgow who died at Lourdes in 1963 was a native of Brae Lochaber.
Bests,
Skoosh.
Cille Choirill's church in Brae Lochaber,
https://www.visitorsguidetoscotland.com/2020/11/cille-choirill/
See Cille Choirill on YouTube also.
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Welcome to Rootschat Rw2.
Do you know when Mary Campbell arrived in PEI?
When did John Bertram & Mary Campbell marry?
What were the names of all their children in order which can often help with parentage?
However, you mention Mary was disowned...by family/church/community...?
Are you able to pick out names of John's family from their children?
Another thing to look at is the surnames of their neighbours which can help with where people possibly arrived from.
I'm descended of a catholic James Campbell c1761-c1845 living in South Uist 1841 although I've no idea where earlier family originated.
Annie
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Skoosh! Thank you again. You're encyclopedic. "Archbishop Campbell of Glasgow who died at Lourdes in 1963 was a native of Brae Lochaber." Fascinating. I'd like to know where those Scots catholic families hail from here in Canada who did such an impressive job in rebuilding that church at Cille Choirill. (Cape Breton?)
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Hi Annie,
Thanks for the welcome. I don't know when she arrived in PEI, I wasn't even certain that she was born in Scotland before I came across a census record a few years ago in which she declared firmly that she was. So she would have sailed over with her parents as a girl or as a teen in the 1820s or 30s. She was born in 1820 or 1821 and she and John were married sometime in the late 1830s when she was still a teen. He was born in 1812, and was baptized in St. Paul's church in Charlottetown. I might have been wrong to state earlier that they were married in the large (famous) Catholic church in Rustico; rather I recall now that that's where their first child Mary Ann was baptised. I'll have to double-check my records. At least 1 (or 2?) of Mary-Ann's godparents had a French-Acadian surname which I found interesting. It's vague but consistent family history that she was disowned by her family for marrying outside of the faith, but evidently not right away seeing as Mary-Ann was baptised in Rustico (less than 9 mos. after they were married if I recall from the records). There's an entertaining story told about Mary and a priest that my distant cousin Cecil told me on the island once yr.s ago, but it's a long one. She and John Bertram are buried under lovely big matching stones in Brookfield cemetery, and I'm not sure where they lived, but probably on a farm in or near Hunter river where her son, my great grandfather and his family lived.
Thank you again. It looks like any lead might be a needle deep in a huge haystack, but any info as to the history and origins of Catholic Campbells in Scotland leading up to the 1820s could be a start and is fascinating in any event. She was my great great grandmother and so she represents a large proportion of my heritage.
Rob in Toronto
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Hi Rob,
Is it possible you can answer some of the questions I posed in my last reply please?
Most people who migrated usually did so with others from their own area i.e. the surnames of others in the area they lived may be beneficial in trying to determine where the family arrived from.
Many from the islands of Uist/Eriskay/Barra/Benbecula/North Uist as well as other places landed on CB & PEI & many of those surnames are quite distinct.
Annie
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Hi again Annie,
I don't know the names of her neighbours in the 1830s and I don't know where on the island she was living then. Her firstborn was baptized in Rustico, that I do know, but that town's home to a large, historic Catholic church which would have been a magnet for Catholics from many miles around. Her children were named Mary-Ann or Mary-Anne (or Marianne? her first-born), 'John Hamilton Grey Bertam' (after the famous politician) aka Hammond, Frank, Thomas (her father-in-law was a Thomas), Catherine, David, those are the names that I recall and that I'm certain of. I'll have to go through my records for the rest. Unfortunately the names are fairly common and don't sound particularly Scots or Gaelic.
Thank you again.