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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: phil57 on Wednesday 13 January 21 16:36 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I have found what appear to be two baptism records for Lucy Hodges, daughter of William and Dinah, in Charlton Adam, Somerset in 1823. The first was on 6th January 1823 and the second on 13th July of the same year. They are on adjacent pages in the same register, but on closer inspection the daughter's name appears to be recorded as "Lucey" in the January entry.
Could she have been baptised a second time due to the name discrepancy in the register? Or can anyone suggest another reason for the two entries please?
As far as I can find, there was only one couple named William and Dinah Hodges in Charlton Adam in the 1841 census. They appear to have had nine children between 1821 and the date of the 1841 census, assuming that Lucey and Lucey are one and the same, all of whom appear in the same census register entry apart from Lucy/Lucey and one other. A Lucy Hodges was buried in the same parish in March 1839, which could explain her absence from the census, and I have not found any other references to a Lucey Hodges apart from the single baptism entry. The time between the two baptisms suggests to me that they are unlikely to refer to two children born to the same parents.
I would appreciate any thoughts. Thank you.
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Welcome to rootschat
It is more likely that the first baptism was performed as Lucy was a 'sickly' baby and then she was baptised in church later, it was not unusual for this to happen. Spelling of a name entered in the register would not have needed a second baptism.
I assume that this is the death you refer to.
HODGES, LUCY age 17
GRO Reference: 1839 March Quarter
LANGPORT reg district Volume 10 Page 304
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Thank you Rosie.
You are correct on the death reference. She was buried at Charlton Adam on 12th March 1839.
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Welcome to Rootschat.
I presume you have William/Dinahs Marriage and their Baptisms?
The Mary Parsons Witness to the marriage is likely MARY ANN Parsons Bapt 05 Dec 1802 Holton.
Dinahs sister.
Trish :)
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Hi Trish,
I have a transcript of the parish register entry for William & Dinah's marriage from FindMyPast. I haven't found Dinah's baptism yet, I'm slowly working back from my grandmother and currently going through all the Hodges baptisms in the 1813-1877 register and assembling parent/child families.
I've got two possible baptisms for William so far - 25/12/1792 to John & Priscilla Hodges and 20/04/1794 to George & Mary, but not sure which, if either is right yet.
Thank you for the information on Mary Parsons :)
Do you have any more information on the Hodges already? I don't want to put you out by going looking for records that I can find for myself, but if you already have information in particular on William & Dinah's forebears, or more generally on any Hodges from Charlton Adam that are related to him, I'd really appreciate an outline or any hints ;)
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In Trish's absence, (she is in Australia) but I am sure that she won't mind me replying, she does find a lot of useful information from the transcripts on freereg when trying to do research for others.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01q7l/
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Thanks Rosie ;D
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Thanks Rosie :)
Although Dinah says she is born c 1801-1809 High Ham on Census her age must be way out.
She'd be 11 if married 1820 if born c 1809!
Also 1871 Williams unm sister Mary 1786 is living with them.
There is a MARY Hodges Bapt 05 Jan 1789 Charlton Adam to GEORGE/MARY
Also High Ham records are on FreeREG but no Dinah Parsons bapt there.
Trish :)
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I dont think that Mary Parsons 1802 Holton is right now and the marriage witness, she had a sister Dinah bapt 1800 but that Dinah may have married William HINE 1830.
On Census MARY Hodges is born c 1786/1791 Charlton Adam (Williams sister in 1871)
If you look at FreREG there is a Marriage 1776 for George to a Mary;
Children;
George 1780
Ann 1783
Mary 1789
Henry 1791
William 1794
Stephen 1796
George may be buried 07 Feb 1838 age 79 and Mary 12 Mar 1839 age 83
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Thank you Trish,
I've got William's death age 84 and probate to Dinah in 1878, which seems to make him the 1794 baptism to George & Mary.
I've also been through the entire 1861 census for Charlton Adam which, together with the baptism register has given me quite a few names and family associations, so I'm slowly putting it all together. Also got William, Dinah & children in 1841. I need to go through the other pages in that census as well.
Sister Mary was living with William and Dinah in 1861 also.
The Parish registers are on Ancestry, transcripts on FindMyPast, so it's just a matter of working my way through them.
I've got the baptism for Dinah Parsons in 1800 at Holton, but not checked it yet.
I'll get there!
Thanks again for your help ;D
Edit: Forgot to add, 1841 census suggests 1796-1801 for Dinah's year of birth.
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Keep plodding away and you'll get there :)
I discounted the Holton bapt Dinah as she seems to marry William Hine and can be found on Census with him.
Trish :)
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Thank you again.
All really helpful information :)
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An update. All going well with the Hodges.
Still struggling with Dinah Parsons. I have made some progress and believe she may be connected to a Parsons family from High Ham, but still can't see where she fits in.
One of the executors of her Will is shown in her probate register entry as Samuel Hurd from 17, Ordnance Road, St. John's Wood, Middx. I have obtained a copy of her Will in case it contained any more clues, but unfortunately it doesn't.
However, a Samuel Hurd was born 1950/Q2/Langport/10/440 - and baptised 29th June at Somerton to Joseph & Ann Hurd, nee Parsons. He appears in the 1891 census as a print compositor at the above address, born in Somerton :) He is described in Dinah's Will as simply "a gentleman", with no indication of any family relationship.
Joseph Hurd married Ann Parsons 19th June 1835 at High Ham. Susan & James Parsons were witnesses at the wedding. She appears in 1851 Census as Ann Hurd age 36 and 1861 census age 46, suggesting she was born abt 1815.
Ann Parsons bap. 12 Feb 1815 at High Ham to William & Mary Parsons.
Joseph Hurd was a widower, prev. marr. Sophia Cox 14 Oct 1816 at Martock, Somerset. Sophia Cox bap. 18 Jan 1792 at Martock, to John & Betty Cox.
William Parsons married Mary Ann Larcombe 6 Aug 1804 at High Ham. Witnesses John Howe & James Parsons. I have discounted the obvious Mary Ann Larcombe, bap 1790 from Wiveliscombe - she would have been 13 on the date of marriage, and census entries indicate that both William & Mary were born abt. 1783.
I believe she was Mary Larcombe, bap. 10 Nov 1782 at St Marys, Shapwick, to James & Betty Larcombe, subsequent confirmation of Shapwick as her birthplace found in the 1851 census.
William Parsons bap. 28th Sep 1783 at High Ham, to James & Mary, possibly James Parsons & Mary Coliverd, who were married 12th Jan 1783 at High Ham. Was his father the James Parsons who was a witness at his wedding?
William & Mary appear to have had the following children: James (b.1807) William (1809) Ann (1815) and Susan (1817). Susan & James may have been the witnesses at Joseph Hurd & Ann's wedding.
Mary Parsons, witness at Dinah's wedding, could have been Mary Larcombe.
So it seems likely that Dinah may have been somehow related to William Parsons. She seems to have been somewhat flexible with her age throughout her life, but it was recorded as 91 in the death register and burial records in 1890, suggesting she was born abt. 1799. Other ages given put her birth anywhere between 1795 and 1809, but her marriage date makes the latter somewhat unlikely.
Perhaps William was her older brother? I have scoured digital copies of the baptism registers for both High Ham and Somerton parishes between 1890 and 1905, but can find no trace of her :(
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Outside chance?
CLAUDIANA Parsons Bapt 01 Dec 1799 St Andrew. High Ham to JOHN/MARY
This is on FreeREG but as I cant see original image could the Father be James??
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1841 in High Ham we have;
James Parsons 78
Mary Parsons 82
Charlott Parsons 24
Occp is dittoed for James so possibly a Carpenter.
So as still alive could have witnessed any of their childrens marriages.
I would say this is James Parsons and Mary Coliverd above.
Their Burials are on FreeREG James 1845 age 84**/Mary 1848 no age given.
GRO has Mary age 91**
Charlotte may have been bapt 1816 High Ham, Mother SARAH Parsons.
James/Mary bapt a SARAH 31 Mar 1793
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Trish, I think you might be on to something :)
I need to find the correct baptism register again, as I know I've been through it, but the copy I've saved despite stating it is 1531-1812 ends in 1786 for baptisms.
Nothing coming up on Ancestry or FindMyPast for Claudiana, but I've just found a transcript on FindMyPast for what appears to be the same entry that you found on FreeREG:
It's transcribed as "Clo.inna Parsons" which suggests to me that the original script is possibly not that clear. I can see how a "d" could turn into "cl".
Parents are shown in this version as "Jas." and Mary, which could well be James & Mary Coliverd.
I need to find that page!
Thank you :) :) :)
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Got it!
The daughter's name looks to be Cloadinna. The nearest "proper" name I can find is Cloadina, which on a quick google seems to be attached to a few Italian women and also appears in latin texts (and the name of a track by someone called DJ Karter on a 2010 recording, but I won't go there).
The father's name is less legible, but either "Jas.", "Jes." or "Jos.". James seems a pretty good bet to me.
I can see someone christened Cloadinna choosing to use Dinah instead.
I think that's the best fit that's going to be found.
Thank you Trish :)
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Excellent ;D
I'm glad you had access to the image.
I'M in Australia so a bit far away and dont have FindMyPast!
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I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to post a cropped image of the relevant entry on here?
There are a few user trees on Ancestry that contain James & Mary Parsons and their children, but all have Christianna Parsons as the name of the daughter born in 1799, none with any sources or other supporting evidence.
That's certainly not the name written in the register, and I can't find any Christianna Parsons baptised anywhere in the UK between 1795 - 1805, let alone in East Ham or Somerset as a whole, which probably points to another case of multiple copies from a public tree with no verification.
Dinah's place of birth being recorded as High Ham in every census that records that option, links to other Parsons names that fit with James & Mary, and the link to Samuel Hurd as executor of her will, whilst not explicitly describing their relationship (although if my assumption is correct means that he would have been her great nephew, and at any rate she obviously knew him and shared her maiden name with his mother) seem pretty good evidence to me. Claudiana/Cloadinna Parsons seems to have disappeared completely following her baptism also, unless she was Dinah.
I'm waiting on the result of an Ancestry DNA test at present (submitted in the hope that it might help break a brick wall related to my grandfather who was an orphan, but that's another story) so I might get some additional pointers as to whether I'm on the right track in due course.
Thank again for your help Trish. I'd totally missed the "Claudina" record, even though I'd been through the register several times. I think sometimes the more you look, the less you see!
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I am glad I could help.
I also noticed a Tree with Christianna married to someone else and down on Census as Ann/Anna.
I cant remeber the married name now though.
Anyhow I checked a childs b/r and her maiden name was not Parsons.
As you say Trees just sometimes guess or just copy one another with no supporting facts.
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Found it 1841 Census;
Thomas Parsons 48
Ann Parsons 50
Elizabeth Parsons 15
George Parsons 15
James Parsons 9
Charity Parsons 6
Frank Parsons 3
Frank has mmn as Raymond.
Tree has Ann as Christianna Parsons, Parents James/Mary although Census has her born c 1792 Queen Camel!
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I think a cropped image is allowed.
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Hi Trish, I've found that census. I don't believe that Thomas is directly related to James & Mary Parsons in High Ham, certainly not as one of their children.
I believe I now have all their children from the parish register. Following their marriage in Jan 1783, I've got:
William - Sep 1783 bapt.
James - Apr 1786
Anna - Mar 1788
George - Dec 1789
Anne - Oct 1791
Sarah - Mar 1793
Maria - Jan 1795
Betty - Jan 1797
Harriet - Mar 1798
Claudina/Cloadinna? - Dec 1799
FreeREG seems to agree with this list.
There appear to have been three Parsons families baptising children in High Ham during that period; James & Mary as above, William & Mary, and George & Joanna/Johanna.
So although the father's name isn't particularly legible in the entry for Claudina/Cloadinna, I'm happy it's a J for James, not George or William. I'm pretty sure that no-one could interpret their daughter's name as Christianna. Although you can't see from the cropped image below, most if not all entries on that page are in the same handwriting, and if the "d" in the middle of her name was being interpreted as a "t" - well there's not a single "t" anywhere else on the page that hasn't been crossed like the one in Beth, the entry immediately below, so I find that very doubtful.
I looked at another tree on Ancestry last night, which James & Mary appeared in. There were more than 18,000 individuals in the whole tree. I checked three children attributed as offspring of James & Mary's daughter Susan. All three had different parents, none named appropriately, and each was from a different part of the UK ???
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You are very thorough in your research and I admire you for that.
The same cant be said for others who have Trees on Anc!
I think you can be pretty sure that is your Dinahs Bapt and her Parents as James/Mary.
Trish :)
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I think you can be pretty sure that is your Dinahs Bapt and her Parents as James/Mary.
Thanks Trish. I'm inclined to agree.
Without your help though, I'd probably still be searching :)
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I'm very happy I could help.
Without this amazing site it would not have happened that we connected.
It brought together 2 people from different sides of the World :)