RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: sawyerhja on Friday 15 January 21 14:58 GMT (UK)
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No birth nor baptism date appears in Ancestry or FS. Is there a way of locating the record book (for St Leonards) online? I would then trawl through every page of the book, hoping to find the actual record which might have been almost too difficult for the transcriber to read).
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Yes if you have Ancestry access choose to search the London Metropolitan Archives and then choose the specific data collection for London C of E baptisms, marriages and burials 1538-1812.
Shoreditch is is the borough of Hackney, so if you choose that option on top right the next dropdown option will be St. Leonard's, Shoreditch which you can choose to browse.
Pheno
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Much appreciated. I will try that.
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Thank you again, Pheno, for pointing me in the direction of London Metropolitan Archives. I wonder what the chances are of deciphering the greyed-out area which shows "Samuel S. of ..." (second from bottom of right page). Clutching at straws......!
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1624/images/31280_194895-00156?ssrc=&backlabel=Return
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not easy to read is it. You could try contacting LMA to see if one of their staff could take a look at the original to see if it can be read.
Pheno
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I contact LMA and they responded very quickly. Once things get back to normal, they will go and look at the original book and hold it up to the light! Thank you again for the tips.
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very pleased - hope the wait isn't too long
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Where does your information that he was born in Shoreditch come from.
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Good question. Tbh, that seems to be a general assumption by other tree owners. Since my original post here, I now think he might have been baptised in St Luke, Finsbury. If you can, pls take a look at our tree (HamiltonSawyer) on Ancestry, where I have done quite a bit of research into Samuel Sawyer b. 1739. I'd be pleased to receive any further information on this chap.
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The St Luke image on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSF7-RST1-7
Father might be Robert? :-\
As far as I can tell, they have offered no transcription for the entry. The one above they have as George Jackson, son of Timothy and Ann, 19 Aug 1739.
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That's very interesting - the FS image is clearer than the one on LMA, who I have asked to take a closer look at. His father does look like Robert - not what I expected. So, either I have been making wrong assumptions or, more likely, his baptism record lies somewhere else. I have trawled through most of the church records in Tower Hamlets, Islington and Hackney but haven't spotted a likely father.
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I have had a quick look at your tree it is certainly well documented, I see that Samuels occupation was a weaver and that he was married to Ann/e. I cannot see a marriage on there or evidence of his year of birth, was his age mentioned when he died or have you located it elsewhere.
Got to go out but will be back soon
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If he could have been a bit older, a baptism at St Olave Southwark, 24 March 1733/4
Transcribed as Samvel Sawer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J393-QF4
Image here, it may be Sawer (but I'm not certain!)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSFX-6SZF-V
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Unless that is the father's occupation! They seem to be giving them. In which case, what is the surname?
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I see that his burial record gives his year of birth as 1739. But this would make him just 14 years old when his son was born. Possible, I know, but is this very likely?
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Thank you to all contributors. Useful stuff. It has been hard to tie down his place of baptism and indeed, my name Sawyer was an occupation itself; confusing. His burial date of 1827 may be wrong, as its calculated birth year of 1739 leads us nowhere in particular. Equally, there are Land Tax Records 2 and 4 years AFTER his death year of 1827. The more we dig, the less we can pin down!
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While I was looking for a marriage I saw the mention of Elizabeth Leech - the Samuel Sawyer that married her in 1780 was supposedly a Bachelor. :)
It would be good to locate your Samuels marriage to Ann.
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No one has found a record for a marriage prior to Eliz. Leech. He could have been a bachelor or, as happened with another of my forebears, he lied, being a bigamist or whatever. Yes, if only we could find a marriage to Ann Hannah.
Btw, which link do you usually use for FS? I have three - there may be better ones?
https://www.familysearch.org/search/family-trees/
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi
https://www.familysearch.org/search/hr/search
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John is the probably best person to answer that question, he seems to find things hiding in their records :)
Personally I don't look at the trees or what they now class as the IGI as that also now contains member submissions, like all transcripts they need checking with originals.
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https://www.familysearch.org/search/hr/search
That's the one. But don't forget the catalogue
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog
Always worth looking to see what they have for any location, and, if you are lucky, you might be able to view otherwise unindexed records at home.
I see that you have a Mary Bramley in your tree, and I have Bramleys from that area, weavers, also :)
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Thank you. Yes, Mary Bramley, for whom I have a mild brickwall. You may have noticed the Death/Burial records are a little vague/confusing. But then, the Registrar could only record what he was told....
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Hi
Could be one in St Giles in the Fields, February 1736 (1735/6)
Sawes as transcribed by ancestry, the end may be a bit cut off. Possibly is Sawer?
They give baptism date as 15 Feb
Samuell of Samuell & Mary Sawer
Born ye 8th
Also at St Giles, in June 1737
Thomas of Samuel & Mary Saweer (as transcribed) born June 18th
And 17 July 1739
John of Samuel & Mary Sawyer
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In London the only marriage possible I have so far is
10 February 1731/2, St Botoloph Bishopsgate
Samuel Sawier and Mary Gibbon
with licence
Not good on handwriting, Family Search have Samuel as Sawier, ancestry as Sawcer https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKD2-VMY
I don't know this is the correct marriage of course!
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Thank you. That might have been Samuel Sawyer's parents (I do have a Samuel and Mary) but the date may not fit. I will look at this further.
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I see that his burial record gives his year of birth as 1739. But this would make him just 14 years old when his son was born. Possible, I know, but is this very likely?
This still seems a big problem to me. And even if Samuel was born in 1736, he would only be 17.
Here is the transcript of the baptism at St Luke Old Street on FamilySearch
John Sawyer, father Saml, weaver, mother Ann
born 17 April
bap 25 April 1753
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNT-6WB4
We can see from the image of the PR (somewhat better on ancestry) that the baptism must have been the near the bottom of the page, again it is unreadable
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSF7-13ZC-2
Sadly those transcripts go back only to 1742, and are no help with the 1739 baptism of Samuel unknown!
John
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Could Samuel and Ann have come down from Manchester? :-\
29 May 1746, Manchester
Sam Sawyer and Ann Laycock
EDIT I am taking out the rest re the Bramleys, fascinating though it was to me!
The burial and age given for Samuel certainly wouldn't fit with that.
Sorry, too much speculating.
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Thanks anyway, it's all grist to the mill.