RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Ella McMahon on Wednesday 20 January 21 23:22 GMT (UK)
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Hello RootsChat.Com,
Mary Jane McKenna was a cafe waitress and a single mother. From her daughter Ella's birth certificate, 1921, Ella was born at the Lying in Hospital UD. Mary Jane stated that she lived at 12 Duke Street Newcastle. This is the only information that I have on Mary Jane. Ella passed away in 2017. I would really like some assistance to find Mary Jane please. Thank you.
Ella.
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Hi , welcome to RC :)
Might be a case of waiting for the 1921 Census release to find out more about Mary Jane.
ev
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There is this Mary Jane on the 1911 census transcript in Newcastle, there are others elsewhere but mostly married. The original census will give the address.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMC-PX9
Colin
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Welcome to RootsChat. :)
Don't know if this might be helpful but if you can prove Ella is deceased I daresay you might be able to access the patient record of Mother at Princess Mary (if that was the lying in hospital) as paid research from Tyne and Wear Archives.
This archives is still closed to the public but I think they are still helping with enquiries.
http://www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk/DServe2/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Overview.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqSearch=(RefNo=%27HO.PM%27)&dsqPos=1&dsqNum=50&PF=No
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Hello again RootsChat.Com,
Thank you everyone for your replies and suggestions which I will follow up on as I do have evidence to show that Ella is deceased. As my options were so very limited I sent off for Ella's marriage certificate several weeks ago which has been sent, but with COVID-19 and limited flights to Australia, I don't expect to receive it any time soon. Many thanks.
Ella.
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http://www.marriage-locator.co.uk/cgi-bin/ML_search.cgi?test=&year=1902&qtr=4&vol=10b&page=231&search=search
There is a marriage for possible parents John Mckenna & Elizabeth Ann Bains in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1902 December quarter Volume 10b page 231. The Marriage Locator can't give exact Church. However, one of the two venues this might have been between is a Quaker one - Quaker Meeting House Newcastle Upon Tyne. Might the family have been Quakers?
Could Mary Jane McKenna be the one born December quarter 1903 Volume 10b page 105 (Mother's maiden name Bains)?
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Possible lead?
The following people were shown at 12 Duke Street in the 1921 Electoral Register for Newcastle upon Tyne.
Sarah McKenna, Thomas McKenna, Adam McKenna and William McKenna.
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Possible lead?
The following people were shown at 12 Duke Street in the 1921 Electoral Register for Newcastle upon Tyne.
Sarah McKenna, Thomas McKenna, Adam McKenna and William McKenna.
Those Electoral Roll names lead to this family in 1911, which includes a Mary J McKenna aged 10
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMW-L2C
The children all have mother's maiden surname Tait.
Birth Mary Jane McKenna, born 2nd q 1901, mother's maiden surname Tait.
From this you should be able to go on and find Thomas and Sarah's marriage if you wish :)
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This is a likely baptism, St Mary's R C Church, Clayton Street (Newcastle Roman Catholic Cathedral - a very beautiful church). The names have been 'Latinised' as was usual in Roman Catholic baptisms.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJCV-G6X
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Thank you all so much for your help in tracking down Mary Jane, I cannot believe my good fortune to receive such wonderful responses when I had so little information to provide you with. Thank you all.
Keep safe,
Ella.
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Let us know when you get Ella's marriage certificate. It will be interesting to see who the witnesses are.
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I sure will Jen, thank you.
Keep warm and safe.
Ella.
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Hi Ella,
Thought that you might like to see an image of what the houses in Duke Street looked like. One of my wife's ancestors lived in 11 Duke Street in the late 1890's early 1900's. We were lucky to find this image of No 11 just before demolishment.
AllanUK
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Thank your Allan, that was so thoughtful of you.
What an absolute gem of a picture, they sure don't make them like that any more.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Ella McMahon
Melbourne - temperature unbearable 30C at 10.00pm
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You are welcome.
Northumberland, -2C at the moment
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Are you aware of a death of a Mary J McKenna in 1923?
The Civil Registrations show:
Mary J McKenna
Birth: 'about 1901'
Death: December Qtr 1923
Vol: 10b
Page: 263
Edit: Should have added 'Tynemouth District'
AllanUK
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Are you aware of a death of a Mary J McKenna in 1923?
The Civil Registrations show:
Mary J McKenna
Birth: 'about 1901'
Death: December Qtr 1923
Vol: 10b
Page: 263
AllanUK
Is that the one in Tynemouth RD?
I’d been wondering about that.
GRO shows middle name Jane’.
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Yes, the death was registered in the Tynemouth District.
Her baptism appears to have been 'Latinised' -- details :
Maria Joanna McKenna
Born 20 May 1901
Baptised 17 July 1901
Father: Thomae McKenna
Mother: Sarah Tate McKenna
Source: England, Births and Christenings , 1538 - 1975
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Yes, the death was registered in the Tynemouth District.
Her baptism appears to have been 'Latinised' -- details :
Maria Joanna McKenna
Born 20 May 1901
Baptised 17 July 1901
Father: Thomae McKenna
Mother: Sarah Tate McKenna
Source: England, Births and Christenings , 1538 - 1975
Reply #8 :)
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Sorry JenB, didn't see #8 at bottom of page 1
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Jen and Allan,
Thank you both for your replies, I am spoilt for information.
Ella.
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Remind me when things get better covid wise as I could check at the North Shields Local Studies when this reopens at some point to see if Mary Jane might have a burial in the North Shields or the Wallsend or Whitley Bay area of the Tynemouth district. This Local Studies has the burial registers for the North Shields, Wallsend and Whitley Bay area. As a single Mother, life would have been tough back then and it might be that Mary Jane (and Ella) might have gone into the Tynemouth Workhouse if she had no other means of support.
If it might turn out that Mary Jane died in the Tynemouth Workhouse, her cause of death will also be available in the death registers 1896-1949 held at Tyne and Wear Archives, Newcastle upon Tyne. Also, in such a case she would also appear in the admissions and discharge and creed registers.
http://www.tyneandweararchives.org.uk/DServe2/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Overview.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqSearch=(RefNo=%27PU.TY%27)&dsqPos=3&dsqNum=50&PF=No
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River Tyne Lass,
Thank you for all the links that you have provided, I am so grateful for any suggestions or advice given as I don't know Northumberland at all.
Ella.
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North Shields local studies opened today so I looked for a possible burial for Mary Jane McKenna at Preston and Church Bank cemeteries. She does not appear to be in either. Only a Margaret Mary Mckenna (Church Bank) and Bridget Mckenna (Preston) in 1923. I ran out of time to search more. When I can next go again I could try Whitley Bay. It could be though that she might be buried at Blyth or at a Church which I can't access records for there such as St John RC Church Annitsford.
Or it might be that death occurred in the Tynemouth district but that she was buried elsewhere such as Newcastle.
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Hi River Tyne Lass,
Very good of you to go to so much trouble, thank you for following through. It's great to know that organisations are starting to open up again. I've had to reapply for Ella's marriage certificate, due to COVID-19 post, my first attempt did not make it to Melbourne. Hope that you have been keeping well and thank you sincerely for everything that you have done.
Ella.
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Hi Ella,
You are welcome - I wish you every success with this as I have no doubt many others will do. :)
Just another update. I have looked again for Ella during the week but have not been able to find her in the Tynemouth registration district (albeit I have no access to other places such as St John RC Church Annitsford or Blyth Cemetery) at the North Shields local studies. I must tell you that the wonderful staff at the North Shields local studies even helped out with this one by looking at through the huge burial tomes for me when I had ran out of my own time allotment.
What I am wondering now is if Ella might have died in the Tynemouth district but was perhaps buried elsewhere such as the Newcastle district where she had lived earlier in life? Possibly she might have been there in the Tynemouth area at the workhouse or at an infectious disease hospital, for instance? Perhaps she was buried near where her family lived or where other family members tended to be buried.
Perhaps we need to find out where others in the family, such as her parents might have been buried.
I am wondering if Ella might have been buried at Elswick for instance? Unfortunately, FamilySearch don't have records available to view online for that time for Elswick.
I have heard from someone else that although Newcastle local studies is not open they are willing to do short look ups for free at the moment. Perhaps worth checking out?
Just a few speculations/ideas to consider. :)
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Dear River Tyne Lass,
Thank you so much for all the time and hard work that you have put into this reply and for going "above and beyond" and please pass on my thanks also to the wonderful staff members at the North Shields local studies. That type of help really restores your faith in people.
So, I have not yet received the marriage certificate, however I am now on a first name basis with our postie.
Mary Jane's death has been confirmed as being the registration mentioned by AllanUK and JenB in reply 15 and 16.
I will definitely contact North Shields local studies now.
Hope that your all keeping well and that things are returning to normal, whatever normal is. Thanks so much for everything.
Ella.
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Mary Jane's death has been confirmed as being the registration mentioned by AllanUK and JenB in reply 15 and 16.
Please can you give us the details on the death certificate especially place of death and informant?
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Hi JenB,
My choice of wording was probably not the best in my last response, I apologise for the confusion. I don't have Mary Jane's death certificate. So, I think that document maybe a worthwhile investment, as I can be downloaded off the GRO website, may save a lot of good people some time. Thanks JenB.
Ella.
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I have just realised that I have not looked at the Old Tynemouth cemetery which I think didn't close until around 1933 and also the Earsdon area .
I am hoping to get to the library again soon as I have something to look up again for someone else, so I will also check these.
I have noticed that an Adam McKenna died in the Northumberland South area. This would have at one time covered the Tynemouth area. I think it looks like his age would fit that of what seems to be her brother Adam.
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Just another update. Tynemouth Old Cemetery and Earsdon were also checked today and she is not there either.
I agree with Jen that it might now be best to order the cert to find out where she may have died and possibly where her usual residence was at time of death. Usual residence might help with working out where the burial place may have been.
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Just a quick update as I am almost out of charge on my Kindle - I have found Mary Jane at long last! :D
Will post details at latest by tomorrow.
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Well, Allan and Jen had the right death registration.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/250395612/mary-jane-mckenna
Mary Jane died on 1 October 1923. She is buried in Walker Churchyard, which I believe is attached to Christ Church, Walker.
This is Mary Jane's death notice from the Newcastle Evening Chronicle:
'McKENNA.-12 Duke Street, Newcastle, suddenly (at Walker Gate Hospital) on 1st aged 22 years and 4 months, Mary Jane, dearly beloved daughter of Thomas and Sarah McKenna. To be interred at Walker Churchyard on Friday, cortege to leave Hospital gates at 2.15. All friends and neighbours kindly invited. R.I.P. Deeply mourned.'
I have added this information to Find A Grave with an image of the death notice as it will be out of copyright
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Well done RTL.
I looked for this death in the newspapers on FNP when this enquiry was first made (nearly two years ago!).
I didn't find anything. However had looked I more closely at this result I might perhaps have made something of it :-X...or maybe not.
MrKENNA— 12 Duke St Nsweasile fat Hospital) on 1st aged 22 4 months Mary lane daughter and Sarah MeKrnna To t Walker on cortege leave at 215 friend'- and neighbour-kindly invited RIP mourned
Let's hope Ella sees your post.
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Thanks Jen. It's good that we got there eventually with this.
I did send Ella a pm yesterday. I can only hope she is still around to see it. You just never know these days.
I think having little Ella, must have felt like such a consolation for Thomas and Sarah when Mary Jane lost her life at 22.
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Deleted.
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Thank you all for the wonderful help that you have given me over time. I cannot begin to tell you how much your persistence and assistance has meant to me. I'm delighted the Mary Jane's last resting place has been found and that there was a death notice for her. Sincerest thanks, Ella.