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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Loveancestry on Sunday 31 January 21 14:42 GMT (UK)
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Hi,I’m new to roots so not sure if I’m doing this right! I have been passed some photos by a fellow relative. She is unsure who they are. In this photo I suspect the older lady be my 3rd great gm who moved from Carlow to stoke on trent by 1860. I believe this photo was taken in stoke. And possibly the younger one to be her daughter my 2nd great gm with one of her daughters? I am wondering if they have been to a funeral given their clothing?
Thank you in advance
Sara
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Hi Sara and welcome to Rootschat, This one must have slipped down the board. The older lady does look to be in mourning dress. I would say this is most likely to be an early 1890s image.
Carol
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Hi Carol, many thanks for your response, Just to add, the picture is not of Hannah May miller, this was a different relative. I believe the older woman in the photo to be Sarah Williams. Her husband Noah Rigby died in 1894 so maybe the photo is connected to his passing? Just out of interest, how old would you say the ladies are in the photo?
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I think it's as Carol says - 1890s, but I've seen some sleeves like that dated circa 1905.
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Yes Gadget that occurred to me too but, I 'm not sure that the photographic style fits with the Edwardian era. It would help if we could see the whole photo including the surround which on the face of it, looks like it could be the later style.
Carol
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Possibly late 60s early seventies, late twenties early thirties and the child about 12-15 months. The child could be a boy.
Carol
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Older woman circa 60s and younger one late 20s/early 30s.
Just seen your dating, Carol, after typing this. :D
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It's a lovely image.... I gave it light tidy up for you, hope you don't mind. One in original tone.
Carol
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...and a warmer one with a sepia type tint.
Carol
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Thankyou so much Carol what a lovely job you have done! So just to clarify, do you think it may be 1890s or early 1900s? If it is my 3rd ggm Sarah she was born around 1842 I believe. If this is her daughter Hannah she was born in 1864 so not sure! And Thankyou for pointing out the child could have been a boy as I had convinced myself it was a girl! Do you think there is anything here to suggest they are a catholic family?
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Lovely picture.
Just regarding the mourning aspect of the clothing:
You're right, Carol, that the older lady could be in mourning - all dark colour, cloak, necktie etc, very formal - but the younger woman evidently isn't with a patterned blouse.
If they are mother and daughter, would the mother still be in mourning whilst her daughter (who would have apparently also lost a close relative, if not father) would not be?
And of course all dark colours come out black in black and white photographs, so there is slight room for manoeuvre with what shade the clothes actually are?
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Hi Igor...Yes you make some good points but older people stuck more rigidly to mourning dress for a longer period than later generations.
I think on balance, it's more likely to be Sarah as the ages and dates are a better fit. People in Victorian times often looked older than what they were, especially if they have lost their teeth. The older lady's outfit could be purple which I believe is the colour worn in the second stage of mourning in Victorian times.
Carol
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I did wonder about purple, Carol....
in some ways easier to imagine her all in black than head to foot in purple. How times change.
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Yes they have, Queen Victoria had a lot to answer for ;D ;D
Carol
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For Comparison...This is a 1906 image of my Great Grandma Charlotte in mourning after the death of her Husband. She was a Catholic. She would have been 45 years old. This photo is very different in style to your your photo.
Carol
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Thankyou to both, your information is really helpful. The family were catholic and I have found all of the catholic baptism records for her children, so I am curious and fascinated on the massive difference in dress with your ancestor Carol if it is Sarah! Could this be due to the time difference and change of style of dress or perhaps lack of money do you think?
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Mourning outfits were often borrowed and my Great Grandma was working class so not very wealthy, It also looks big on her too as my Uncle told me that she "Looked bigger than what she was" in this photo. The one worn by your ancestor looks to be a lot earlier style than the one in my photo, but again, it may have been borrowed.
Carol
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Yes Sarah and the family also did not have much money so that makes sense. Thankyou for your help. I have a couple more photos that are unknown and would appreciate any help with them too! :)
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Just to clarify any confusion over the date.
The sleeve called a kick-up was popular 1890-94.
This looks like a later style so 1892-4 is about right.
The similar style in the 1900's had a much fuller sleeve.
Her hairstyle is also typical 1890's & you'd be hard pressed
to see it later.
With regard to mourning some women had their clothes dyed for the occasion
& dyed again after the period was over usually 2 years.
Sons & daughters wore arm patches (men) or crape (women) usually for one year.
There were exceptions of course with jet used in various ways.
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That’s helpful thanks Jim. So this suggests it is Sarah given her husband died in 1894. It just makes me wonder why the other lady isn’t in mourning dress as the child is also dressed in dark clothing? I did assume the younger woman was her daughter Hannah but maybe it isn’t? There were no other daughters around though? Confused!!!
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Mourning attire was the preserve of adults.
The daughter may have an indication of mourning on her coat.
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Thankyou Jim
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Yes Sarah and the family also did not have much money so that makes sense. Thankyou for your help. I have a couple more photos that are unknown and would appreciate any help with them too! :)
Tell us as much as you can about the people in the photos and also if you have the originals, scan the whole photo including the borders and also the backs as they help with identifying the date. Even if it has a postcard card, there can be clues that wouldn't be obvious to most.
Carol