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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Viktoria on Saturday 13 February 21 21:01 GMT (UK)
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A whole new meaning.
Watching the TV programme tonight about Cross Rail ,and the Lost Graveyard It was stated that a common term for a streetwalker in those days, was “Goose”——.
The number of bodies with dreadful signs of the effect of Syphilis in their bones was amazing.
Many Nursery Rhymes have much more sinister meanings abd there is now a wholley different meaning to” Goosey goosey gander ,
Wither dost thou wander ?
Upstairs and downstairs
In my lady’s chamber.etc.”
The words of quite a few Folk Songs too, may have very different meanings than is first obvious.
The programmes have been very interesting , and all exhumed bodies we are told will be reverentially re interred.
Viktoria.
At least those not kept in boxes for further research.
Viktoria.
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That puts me in mind of the Ring-a-ring o' roses rhyme.
Ring-a-ring o' roses,
A pocket full of posies,
A-tishoo! A-tishoo!
We all fall down.
Some people claim the nursery rhyme 'Ring-a-ring-o'-roses' is about the plague:
The 'roses' are the red blotches on the skin.
The 'posies' are the sweet-smelling flowers people carried to try to ward off the plague.
'Atishoo' refers to the sneezing fits of people with pneumonic plague.
'We all fall down' refers to people dying.
Others believe that it's just a nonsense rhyme. The fact that people are willing to believe that the nursery rhyme is about the plague shows how much importance it is still given today.
Whether it really relates to the plague or not... who knows ::)
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This has come up before and the conclusion was it was not the plague but we who think it may very well be can think of other songs and rhymes where Tge rose is not a flower but the mark of a deadly disease .
Once I had a bunch of thyme ,
I thought it never would decay,
But along came a handsome sailor
Who chanced to pass my way,
Who stole my bunch of thyme away.
But the sailor gave to me a rose.
A rose that never will decay,
He gave it to me to keep me well minded
Of when he stole my thyme away.
That rose is the mark of Syphilis ,the chancre.
lThose watching the programmes about HS2
and all the many graveyards uncovered will know so many skeletons are showing the ravages of that disease ,the bones almost like sponges.
But , twas ever thus!
Viktoria.
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I often say I learn something new each time I come on here! Better than U3A.
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Bunch of thyme -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BNE7gIerwg
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Thanks, I often listen to a CD of The Houghton Weavers ,singing that.
Foster and Allen ‘s style was well suited to it .
We saw one of their last concerts in Ramsbottom’s Theatre Royal, Tony Berry was very ill and has since died but gave a good performance as ever.
The Dubliners never recorded it.
We were taught to only use one superlative, “most best “ ,is wrong as is “most favourite “ etcetc..
But we all understand each other!
Viktoria.
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BUT Paddy Reilly did! And he was a member of The Dubliners. :)
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The Dubliners I know :-
Luke Kelly ,long necked Banjo.
John Sheehan , Violin
Ronny Drew ,Guitar
Barney McVane,Banjo
Ciaran -? Guitar.
Paddy joined after Luke died ,I think only Barney and John were left of the
original Dubliners when Paddy joined ,but he did have a nice voice “.,The Fields of Athenry “ is lovely in his version.
I like Barney’s Carrickfergus ,so beautiful.
I love Luke singing “ On Raglan Road”.well anything really ,Come to the Bower, The Bonny Shoals of Herring,Black Velvet Band ,I know my Love,etc etc .
So sad he died so young ,a brain tumour .
That mad red hair and green green eyes ,throwing his head back and belting out.
He had a place at Prague University ,but never took it up.
Cheerio.Viktoria.
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Seen The Dubliners on a number of occasions, including St Patrick's Day concerts in Birmingham.
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Oh ,lucky you !
Barney played a piece and called it “ Is it Mozart ?”
But would never say either way.
Not a sheet of music between them ,all from memory.
Luke’s diction was so clear ,loud and strong.
Thanks.
Viktoria.
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Just to get back on topic ::)—— as I am guilty of straying ———has anyone watched the HS 2 programme .
The number of graveyards is astonishing ,and often even the very poor buried in shrouds had tin or lead name plates etc ,so can be identified.
What will be done with all the skeletons ?well, supposedly re interred.
A massive task.
Wonder what many other Nursery Rhymes mean, I think the fact that goose had another less innocent meaning than the nursery rhyme is coincidence.
Humpty Dumpty supposedly being a skit on The Duke of York ,very overweight ,hence the egg shape ,George IV ‘s brother .
Often historical figures being lampooned are the origins it seems .
Anyone know more ?
Viktoria.
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How about Lucy Locket lost her pocket? I think I heard somewhere that that had something to do with
streetwalkers.
Will now have to look it up as cannot remember the rest🤦🏻♀️
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Lucy Locket,lost her pocket
Kitty fisher found it —— the rest escapes me.
Little Jack Horner is supposed to be when a clerk, collecting the deeds of a Monastery stole out of the package a” plum” ie a very rich one and kept it,seemingly the family still own it today ,quite unashamedly!
This was when Henry Vlll was dissolving (dissoluting ;D) the monasteries as he needed funds and also wanted to break with Rome - Anne Boleyn and all that .
Viktoria.
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" ... there was not a penny in it
But a ribbon round it"
I seem to recall it was about her losing her "good name", from losing something else!
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"Don't care didn't care
Don't care was wild
Don't care stole plum and pear
Don't care was hung
Don't care was put in a pot
And boiled till he was done".
Scary tale
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I don’t think I’ve heard that before, scary indeed.
I looked for Lucy Locket references on the web and the rhyme seems to be thought of as a game played in a circle, which I definitely don’t remember..
There is another post however saying that the game was Atisket, atasket, I’ve lost my yellow basket. That I do remember.
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It was, as I dimly recall, played as a loose circle of seated children, and one (Lucy) circling the ring on the outside, with a purse or other small item in her hand the circle did the chant:
"Lucy Locket lost her pocket,
Kittie Fisher found it
There was not a penny in it
But a ribbon round it"
and then something like a chant of "Drop it, drop it, as the child moving outside the circle got up speed, then dropped the "purse" (pocket) behind one child who then had to scramble to their feet , and run round the circle's perimeter, trying to get back to their seat before "Lucy".
Thrilling it wasn't.
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Seem to rember they used hankies
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Seem to rember they used hankies
Yes, that's how I remember the game too.
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Seem to rember they used hankies
Yes, that's how I remember the game too.
We called it Hanky Ring when I was in primary school in the 60s. One of our favourite games on nice days when you could sit in the playground.
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Perhaps the reason for using a purse or other small item - I remember a beanbag also being used - was because one variant allowed the one who had the "pocket" dropped behind them to scramble up and hurl the pocket at the one who had dropped it - and if it hit, then the original pocket-bearer had to continue!
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We played a game—— well, it consisted of the boys tying the girls’plaits to the school railings . ::)
You knew you were popular if it was done at least once a day .
Not by ribbons either, yer ackshull plaits!
I and a couple of other girls were easy game having the longest.
I still get a Christmas card from one of the lads.
I never knew the rules if RallyVo, or was it RelieveO ?
The Big Ship Sailed up The Ally Ally O .
Years later I found it was from America and the river was The Alighenny .
Pilgrim Fathers?
The Farmer’s in his Den. Boys joined in that and you had to marry,no really marry any boy who chose you for his wife.when you were grown up.
I lived in dread of one poor lad asking me ,I would not have hurt him but l could not like him ,I liked it when the one from whom I still get a card was the farmer !
He was a bit of alright- then ,but not at a school reunion some fifty years later.However to be fair we had all changed hadn’t we.
Viktoria.
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Your memories are wonderful, Viktoria - you're obviously rather older than I am, and Lancashire based, but a lot of childhood things seem to have lasted longer in outlying and rural districts. thank you for your memory prompts.
I was trying to recall, the other day just how "Grandmother's footsteps" was played. Young teachers I know don't seem to know these playground games at all.
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Is that the one where we said something like what grandma was doing ie washing and we did the actions,remembering those were dolly tub and mangle washdays.
Ironing,sweeping,polishing ,cooking ,baking.
Practising for when we would be chained to the kitchen sink or even nailed to the floor!
Oh what joy, ::)
Some years ago ,children’s behaviour on the yard at playtime was getting really bad.
The Head of one school looked up those old games on the computer for the Welfare Staff to know so they could teach the children.
Those games meant we co operated with others,took turns,and all got on.
There never really was a proper revival ,children had changed so much.
Pity.
Viktoria.
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I remember the game with all the children in a circle but the rhyme went something like:
"I wrote a letter to my Mother
On the way I lost it
And one of you has picked it up
And put it in her pocket!"
The child had a hanky and walked round the circle and dropped the hanky behind someone picked at random
"I also remember "What time is it Mr. Wolf?"....and "May I"
Carol
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The children loved “ What time is it Mr.Wolf .”
But with the little reception class,only four years old ,they had accidents if they ran, so I was always the wolf and gave fair warning like” threeOclock and my tummy is getting very hungry “ licking my lips .
The timid ones would stay at the back .
I never ran after them,( I - the wolf- had a bad leg you see,but limped ,it kept it calmer )
But still enjoyable.
We were on an asphalt yard ,gritty ,with the stone walls of the old school buildings on three sides ,the fourth led on to the sports field .
There would have been accidents .
We chose sides when I was at school by a dipping method.
Dip dip dip
My blue ship
Sailing on the water
Like a cup and saucer
Out goes you!
Eeny meeny Miney mo
Catch a piggy
By its toe
If it squeals,let it go
Eeny meeny miney mo
Out goes you!
Each word a girl was touched ,the last one “you” was out .
Picking sides.
Viktoria.
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....."Out goes one, out goes two, out goes another one, and that one's you!"
Carol
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I don't remember any of our teachers showing us how to play physical outdoor heritage games. I do remember occasions on sunny summer days when a group of us were bored, somebody would go indoors and ask their mother what we could do to pass the time.. Usually it was an older version of a game we already knew.
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This would be the 1990’s Rena.
At school I don’t remember there ever being a teacher on yard duty .
I did every playtime, the infants,especially the four year olds in reception were too young to be out there on their own,the yard is a frightening
place ..The infants alone had about 100 children milling round .
Being an old building the little quad was ideal for just the reception class ,so up to thirty - thirty five children about the same age each knowing the other.
Fancy, the school I attended before passing the eleven plus must have had children from seven to fifteen ,so nine classes .
Say thirty to a class so at least 270
I don’t remember any trouble and there were children unsupervised on the yard for two playtimes and the hour long dinner break ,though many went home for their mid day meal.
Were we better behaved?
Viktoria.
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This would be the 1990’s Rena.
At school I don’t remember there ever being a teacher on yard duty .
I did every playtime, the infants,especially the four year olds in reception were too young to be out there on their own,the yard is a frightening
place ..The infants alone had about 100 children milling round .
Being an old building the little quad was ideal for just the reception class ,so up to thirty - thirty five children about the same age each knowing the other.
Fancy, the school I attended before passing the eleven plus must have had children from seven to fifteen ,so nine classes .
Say thirty to a class so at least 270
I don’t remember any trouble and there were children unsupervised on the yard for two playtimes and the hour long dinner break ,though many went home for their mid day meal.
Were we better behaved?
Viktoria.
The 1990s would explain it Viktoria.
Most schools in old towns were parish schools built circa 1890 and protected by cast iron railings and gates that could be locked. The school I went to was built circa 1940 and consisted of three buildings; infant; senior then junior. There were no safety railings/fencing around the school buildings I think only the infant school separated the boys from the girls and. I do recall a teacher supervised the infant girls at playtime, it was a good job otherwise I can imagine a few tots would have escaped.. I don't know about that senior school, but do recall that the junior school had a mixed boys and girls playground with one of the teachers in attendance ready to blow a whistle when anything untoward happened. One time was the 1947 winter of the big freeze and the whistle was blown because we were all enjoying ourselves too much on the really long fast slide we'd made and was destroyed by the caretaker's heel.. Then another time was when we had a couple of lines of children facing each other holding (crossed) hands and we'd bounce other children over our arms from one end to the other end; the whistle was blown on that happy exhilarating game too :-)
I don't quite know how the classes were arranged in that infant and junior school. I know I started school on my 5th birthday and it seemed halfway through a year the head teacher of the primary/infant school would appear at the classroom door and I'd be taken out of that class and put into the next class, where the pupils from my first class would join me at the start of the next term. The same thing happened in the junior school too; until the year metriculation age was changed and the 11+ was introduced, which had a different qualification age - That year I missed the metriculation cut off and stayed in the same junior class for two years.
There were 39 pupils in my grammar school class.
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Most schools in old towns were parish schools built circa 1890 and protected by cast iron railings and gates that could be locked...
Ah yes, my primary school was like that. I have a memory of one lad putting his head through the railings and the fire brigade coming to get him out. Did this happen in every school/year group, or was it just us?
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It happened at ours.
Remember The Head lifting him and turning him as the lads’s ears were stopping his head coming through, then getting him to tuck his chin in.
That was the lad the Head bought shoes for ,so he could go to sit an exam.
The school hall was jam packed when that Head left .
Grown men who had the strap frequently were in tears, but they all said he was fair.
Most importantly he had made them realise it, so no resentment !
“Pop “Kendal.
Viktoria.
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Most schools in old towns were parish schools built circa 1890 and protected by cast iron railings and gates that could be locked...
Ah yes, my primary school was like that. I have a memory of one lad putting his head through the railings and the fire brigade coming to get him out. Did this happen in every school/year group, or was it just us?
Oh dear.
I once saw a group of fire brigade men turn a small boy upside down so he was facing the railing and they then gently pushed his head back through the railings.
I've just seen Viktoria saw the same solution.