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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: FrancisGrn on Monday 15 February 21 21:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I'd like to request a lookup of my 5th great grandfather, Philip Crick. Philip Crick was probably born in about 1777, in the parish of St Martin in the Fields. He married a Mary Pond (1776-1840), also of the parish, in St Martin's in 1798. He had many children, including my 4th great grandmother, Susannah (1804-1885). I would also like to request a lookup of his wife. A 'William Pond' is listed as a witness (a brother, possibly?), as is an 'Ann Goff'. I think I've found Mary Pond's baptism, where she is listed as the daughter of a 'John Pond' and 'Phaba' (a mistranscription of Phoebe I assume). The record is not scanned. 'John Pond' seems to have married a 'Jane Clark' as far as I know, so I'd also like someone to have a look at the Pond line.
Thanks,
Francis
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Hi all,
Has anyone had any luck with this?
Best wishes,
Francis
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What are you actually looking for, FrancisGrn? We happy volunteers of rootschat can look for specific information if you tell us you want :). You have mentioned quite a few facts but have you told us all you do know? And what parish records do you have access to?
What were the witnesses to? A marriage? Who & when?
Sorry for all the questions....
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Witnesses were to Philip & Marys marriage in 1798 :)
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Hi,
There is an incorrect transcription on Ancestry. The actual baptism for Maria Pond, baptised 24 September 1778, is as follows:
Maria POND of John & Oriana.
John POND & Oriana MICHELL married 8 Aug 1771 in St Paul, Covent Garden, London.
Queenie :)
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A lot of scanned Middlesex parish records are being transcribed at the moment [by me amongst others] for familysearch.org, so more scanned records will be coming online in due course.
Ancestry has the scanned baptisms from St Martin in the Fields; there is a 24 Sep 1778 baptism of a Maria Pond daughter of John & Oriana born Sep 1.
b
Just typing this out while Queenie got there first!! Am looking for a maybe sister Ann.
ADDED: John Pond s/o John & Oriani his wife baptised 30 Sep 1773 St Paul Covent Garden
Elizabeth Jane Pond d/o John & Oriana baptised 22 AUg 1775 ST M I T Field
An Elizabeth Jane Pond age 50 buried St Paul Covent Garden 24 Feb 1825
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Baptism St Mary Whitechapel Oriana Michel 24 Mar 1745 d/o Peter & Elizabeth of Prescott St.
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John POND & Oriana MICHELL married 8 Aug 1771 in St Paul, Covent Garden, London.
A John Pond & Mary Pond were witnesses to this marriage along with John Mackclary & John Pritchard.
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Sorry josey! :P
Here is the burial of Maria's father, John Pond.
John POND
died aged 54, buried 4 September 1801 in St Paul, Covent Garden.
So he was born c. 1747.
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Sorry josey! :P
I need to learn to type quicker - should have done that in lockdown 1 ;D
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Sorry josey! :P
I need to learn to type quicker - should have done that in lockdown 1 ;D
Haha, that touch typing course I took 10 years ago is clearly paying off!
I found another record that interests me...
There are only 2 Philip Cricks that I can find baptism records for around 1777. One of them never leaves his home town but I can't find any other records in the same area for the second one.
Philip CRICK
born 12 Nov 1778
baptised 5 Jan 1779
in Saint James, Bury Saint Edmunds, Suffolk
Father: Philip Crick
Mother: Susan(nah) - this is particularly interesting because Philip & Mary's first daughter was called Susannah.
It is quite a distance from Bury to London but he was a fruit salesman so maybe he moved for more work? Not outside the realms of possibility.
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Hi all,
Apologies for being a bit vague in my request. I essentially want to know parents and background for Philip and Mary. A few more things to add:
Phillip Crick was, like you said, a fruit salesman, so it's not impossible that he moved from Bury St Edmunds. He was literate, as was his wife, suggesting a reasonably well-off background for him and his wife. As I said, 'William Pond' and 'Ann Goff' are the witnesses to Phillip and Mary's marriage, so presumably William is a brother or other relative of Mary's. I've checked out the Michell connection before, and they were quite prominent, being related to a director of the East India Company. The trouble is though, I contacted someone who did research on them, and he emailed me a copy of Boyd's IoL, which lists John and Oriana Pond and their children. Maria Pond died a few years after being born, as did her brother, William. So I have a feeling we're dealing with someone else. I think William Pond and Ann Goff might be the key to solving this...
Thanks,
Francis
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I'd attach a photo of the BIoL, but attachments don't seem to work for me today for some reason :-\
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Spiked my interest even more now - I was born in Bury St Edmunds!!
You can't add attachments on a look up board, FrancisGrn.
ADDED: St Mary's Whitechapel have a baptism of an Ann Goff 3 Mar 1776 d/o Wm & Bridget of Whites Yard.
A Marriage of an Ann Goff to James Curtis 12 Jan 1802 St Giles Camberwell
Also an Ann Goff married Samuel Morina 5 Sep 1791 Wapping [so it can't be her who witnessed a 1798 marriage as Ann Goff] & both made their mark.
Another Ann Goff [made mark] married John Moses 21 Nov 1804 St Mary's Whitechapel
Did Ann Goff sign or make her mark in 1798?
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Hi,
Both William Pond and Ann Goff signed with their names. If we suppose that Ann Goff was an aunt of Mary's, then perhaps there might be a Goff-Pond marriage somewhere?. Also, I'm looking to try and find more out about Philip Crick Sr and his wife Susan(nah). I'm seeing two Bury St Edmunds marriages. One is in 1764, without a maiden name for Susannah, the other in 1778 to a Susannah Mills.
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Annoyingly (as is often the case!), there appears to have been at least 2 couples in Bury in the late 18th century whose names were Philip & Susan Crick. In my opinion, Philip Crick Jnr. b.1778, was born to Philip Crick & Susan(nah) Mills. They were married on 2 May 1778 and Philip was born on 12 Nov 1778 so it looks like, as with many couples, they were expecting a child when they married.
Here are the children (I believe) were born to Philip Crick & Susan(nah) Mills in Bury St Edmunds:
Philip b. 1778 bap. 1779
Susanna b. 1779 bap. 1797
Elizabeth b. 1782 bap. 1797
Charlotte b. 1784 bap. 1797
Mary Ann b. 1787 bap. 1797
Edmund b. 1790 bap. 1797
Frances Sophia b. 1792 bap. 1795 (On Frances' baptism, her mother is listed as Susan MILLS)
As you can see, many were not baptised as babies and quite a few of them were baptised on Christmas Day in 1797.
Queenie :)
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I think I might have found a link!
On Philip Crick Jnr.'s burial record in 1816, his abode is listed as 'Maiden Lane.' He was buried in St Paul, Covent Garden.
Susannah Mills, the mother of the Bury St Edmunds Philip Crick Jnr., is listed as 19 on her marriage certificate, meaning she was born in c. 1759.
There is a Susan Crick who was buried in St Paul, Covent Garden in 1832. She died at the age of 73, meaning she was born in c. 1759 and her abode is listed as 'Maiden Lane!'
Maybe she moved to Covent Garden to be with her son? This seems like a massive coincidence if it's not her.
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Wow, thanks so much :D. I've found a line. Any luck on Mary Pond?
Francis
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Are you sure Mary Crick nee Pond died 1840?
FreeREG has a Burial of a Mary CRICK 24 May 1818 Covent Garden age 45. (1773)****
Abode Maiden Lane
Also Nat Archives;
Will of Mary Crick, Fruit Saleswoman of Maiden Lane Covent Garden , Middlesex
Date: 26 September 1818
If her Susannah Crick may have been looking after the children after their parents died.
Death Regs GRO;
CRICK, MARY age 32 (1808)****
GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in ST GILES IN THE FIELDS AND ST GEORGE BLOOMSBURY Volume 01 Page 51
RICK, MARY age 64 (1776)***
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 04 Page 150
So there is one born c 1776 but are you sure she was Philips Wife?
Trish :)
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wow, she may have actually died in 1818 instead. She would be five years older than her husband though; I'm not sure how common that was back then. Maiden Lane is after all the road that they lived on. Philip Crick did however have a sister Mary Ann though, so that might be a possibility. I still think that the key would be to find 'William Pond' who is clearly a relative, possibly a brother, and whether Ann Goff could be a relative
Best wishes,
Francis
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The Mary Crick who died in 1818 is definitely your Mary. I just skimmed her will and I picked out 'my late husband' referring to Philip who died in 1816 and 'my eldest son Philip.' I am terrible at reading old handwriting but you can view the will on Ancestry if you have an account there or alternatively you can create a National Archives account and view it for free:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D525503
Also I wouldn't put too much store by the age at death listed on the burial record. The information is only as accurate as the information provided by the informant, which in a lot of cases was simply an educated guess. Most records I have found are at the very least a year or two out.
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She asks to be buried as near to her late husband as possible, to have a plain walking funeral and that her children follow her corpse to the grave; she talks about a partnership she lately formed with a James
Coburn*. Also mentions sale of all her furniture except her wearing apparel [for her infant daughter] and portrait of 'my late husband Philip & myself'. Wouldn't it be great to find that?
* This may say Godwin....
Mentions George Crick, brother of her late husband 'now about the age of twenty one years and in my employ'. Two of executors Ephraim Goatly & John Drake.
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She asks to be buried as near to her late husband as possible, to have a plain walking funeral and that her children follow her corpse to the grave; she talks about a partnership she lately formed with a James Coburn*. Also mentions sale of all her furniture except her wearing apparel [for her infant daughter] and portrait of 'my late husband Philip & myself'. Wouldn't it be great to find that?
* This may say Godwin....
Mentions George Crick, brother of her late husband 'now about the age of twenty one years and in my employ'.
Oops, looks like I missed a sibling of Philip!
George CRICK
b. 31 May 1796
bap. 25 Dec 1797
to Philip & Susan Crick
Bury St Edmund, Suffolk
Well, at least we know we've found the right Philip!
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If only my family had been in the position to write wills - it certainly helps to confirm relationships!!
Mary must have been unwell to have written such a long will in advance.
Do you think this is the wrong Mary, Trish?
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Wow, that's truly amazing! That would be ridiculous to find a portrait :o. I'm sure it's with one of his descendants who probably don't even know who's on it! I think there's more in the will if you turn the page. I'll post the whole thing to the transcription squad and see if maybe something might come up
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Yes, I've taken info from whole will. I can transcribe it given time....mostly she talks about buying annuities & trusts with the money from the sale of goods. I think I have got the most important bits out.
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Thanks Josey! Just post the transcription on this thread.
Best Wishes
Francis
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That would take almost all of rootschat servers ;D ;D it's 4 pages long.
I'll post when it's done, anyone interested can pm me with their email address & I'll send a copy.
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Mary may have been ill when she wrote the will but I suppose we will never know.
But also as Philip had died she would have written a Will to protect her childrens interests.
In 1818 her youngest Son Edmund Timothy was only about 5.
As I said earlier Susanna Crick may have been looking after the children after 1818.
From FreeREG Phiip/Mary Bapt;
Mary 1799 buried 04 Oct 1810 age 11***
Amelia Ann 1801 buried 1803 age 2***
Susanna 1803
Philip 1805
Sarah Ann 1807
Elizabeth Frances 1808
Ann Charlotte 1810
Edmund Timothy 1813
Now interestingly there are 2 Marriage Covent Garden for a GEORGE Crick;
24 Jun 1805 a Bachelor to Ann DOLLONSON, a Philip Crick* a witness
23 Jan 1824 a Bachelor to Ann Hughes JOHNSON
The 1796 George would be too young to marrry 1805 so the second marriage is more likely for him.
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That generation of Cricks seemed to die young;
All occurred Covent Garden;
Burials;
GEORGE Crick 29 Jun 1838 age 42
ANN HUGHES Crick 17 Nov 1847 age 47
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Mary signed the will on 8 May 1818 - 16 days before the burial. I've very nearly finished the transcription just puzzling over a few words but as Trish says, mostly it's to provide for her children. The only other points to come out are that Philip died intestate & Mary left some money to her mother-in-law Susan Crick.
If Philip had been born in Bury St Edmunds today he would have been a sugar beet salesman ;D.
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I admire you for transcribing the will josey.
I have given up for now looking at handwriting. (I had eye surgery 6mths ago and its still healing)
Trish :)
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Hope it continues to heal, Trish. I may have to have surgery for an epiretinal membrane in due course.
I have completed all I can - a few words elude me but nothing important. I can send images and the transcription to anyone who sends their email address by pm.
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Hi all,
Thanks so much for the transcription ;D
Best wishes,
Francis
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Will send the 'stuff'. But you'll need to remove your email address Francis - not allowed on rootschat public forum. That's why I said to send it by pm. A moderator may do it for you if you don't - it's to prevent spam.
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Apologies for the address; I didn't know it was not allowed. I'm still quite new to rootschat, and don't really know how to pm things to people here
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Easy peasy, just click on text icon bottom right below a member's name. This is green when a member is online, though they don't have to be online for you to send them a pm. It's the perfect way to exchange email addresses, names & details of living people - and real names!! If you receive a pm, a notification will appear by email just like a reply to a thread.
After a while you get addicted to rootschat.....
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Wow, thanks so much for the will! That is truly amazing. I wonder if the portrait is still around. She said that she wrote it to her son Philip. He died unmarried in the 1860s and seems to have fallen on hard times, as he was often in workhouses. It also seems like they ran some sort of fruit company with this chap James Godwin, and they seem to have been reasonably well-off. Truly amazing to read something written by my ancestor. Too bad that she did't leave anything to a brother or cousin, as that could have shed more light on her origins. I think I've found her on land tax records in the late 18th century, but that and 'Wm Pond/Ann Goff' seems like the only evidnece of who she was before she got into the fruit business
Best wishes
Francis