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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: LostLass on Monday 15 February 21 22:14 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
firstly thank you all for your helpful tips, I've been lurking most days for the past month or so whilst trying to get my head around my DNA results and have learnt a lot.
I thought it would be an ideal way of learning about my maternal grandmother's line and giving me some clues instead I have ended up with a different biological father! I can't really follow this up in person as I know my Dad definitely doesn't know and nor does my mother, if she did know she would have taken great delight in telling us both. I'm estranged from her and if I ask her now she will find a way of telling my Dad (they are divorced) and I don't think him knowing serves any purpose.
After unsharing the results I phoned Ancestry as I only had the last 4 digits of the code, they told me the first 6 they had on record so it is the correct sample according to the unique code.
The issue I have is I'm finding it difficult to verify any lines on the maternal side, as apart from the 'surprise' the only other close relative was his nephew. All the other matches are 4-6 cousins, I've had a trawl through all the ones not marked as 'father's side' and there are no common ancestors and hardly any shared surnames. Those that there are don't match, so I've been adding to my tree back to 7th/8th Grandparents in the hope of finding any connections. Am I correct in thinking that doesn't really help given a lot of people in an area could be connected that far back, so potentially there could still be a mix-up somewhere or am I kidding myself?
I have uploaded my results to GedMatch, myHeritage, and not got on much better there. The 'cousin' is on GedMatch and looks fairly active on there and on here, and I've had a go at the chromosomal matching on DNApainter with his results. Also am working my way through the cluster chart on myHeritage with other matches.
It's all such a mess and I have no idea what steps to take next. It's unlikely I'll do much more on Ancestry, my results are visible at the moment whilst I take some notes but the results for the biological match is managed by his wife and I really don't want her to get a shock, or him to find out that way - if at all.
If anyone has any suggestions on what other methods I could explore it would be much appreciated.
Thank you,
Lost Lass
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You can also upload to FTDNA for free as well. Small 1 time fee if you want to use the tools but you can see matches free. I assume you have created a group with the shared matches from your father. In theory, the remaining matches would be maternal. The autoclustering tool on My Heritage is very nice and may provide some direction. Good luck. This is challenging but not uncommon.
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Welcome to rootschat LL. :)
Can I confirm:
The “nephew” is on your (unknown) paternal side?
You have no matches closer than estimated 4/6th cousins on your maternal side?
Have you contacted any of your matches? They may be able to work with you to work out how you connect.
I would recommend that you search sideways as well - so look at siblings of your direct ancestors, and then their descendants. Most of my matches have come via the female line so names changed upon marriage.
I completely understand you not wanting to tell your parents what your DNA test has revealed. Your mother must have some idea though.
Don’t you feel comfortable contacting the “Nephew” ? If his results are on Gedmatch he (or his wife) is likely to be a serious researcher, and may be the key to being able to help you, if you are interested in finding out more about this branch.
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It certainly is challenging JohnDoe. Thank you for confirming my assumption that anyone not on 'father' side should be maternal. I have uploaded to FTDNA but have not got to grips with their tools yet.
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Thanks for the reply Ruskie. If my mother had even an inkling I wasn't my Dad's she would have said when they divorced as I sided with him. I have two younger siblings one of whom is also not my Dad's and they have known for years. I can see why she wouldn't have said when they were married as I was the reason they got married, I'm guessing there were a few on the scene and maybe my Dad got 'picked' as he was the one she was dating. His name doesn't ring any bells either.
I have thrown in loads of sideway branches and Thrulines has linked some on the maternal side now, but no closer than 4th cousin once removed - on 3/4 grandparents lines. I'm guessing I can't kid myself that my sample got mixed up with someone elses, although these matches are quite distant so not sure if it really confirms the links or not?
I have found out quite a bit about the 'paternal' side. It's the wife of the father match who is on Ancestry, she manages his account. Which is why after Thrulines updated I have unshared my results again before she sees the match. From her trees I have found quite a bit out, and that's how I worked out the 1st cousin match was his nephew (cross-referencing his trees). The reason I uploaded to other sites is because the 'father' has several siblings so if the nephew/cousin comes across me it won't be immediately obvious where I fit in, whereas it will be on ancestry as it shows the shared matches.
The wife is also on Facebook so have looked on there as well and seen some photos (including a potential half-sibling). Other than that the 'father' match has very little digital presence.
Sorry, another long rambley post... am still processing everything...
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An idea .... depending on how estranged you are from your mother, she would obviously be the best person to ask to take a DNA test, or alternatively does she have a sibling who you get along well with who might take a test. Any mutual matches that you and she have might help you sort everyone out a bit more easily. Sometimes it’s just a waiting game for closer matches to come through.
Something else you could consider is asking one of your siblings to take a test in case they have more matches on the maternal side than you do?
You seem to have a good paper trail - can I ask if your maternal line had large families? Are they based in the UK? If so, the reason you don’t have any closer matches could be that the family remained in the UK through the generations, possibly each generation had fewer children, and any living descendants simply haven’t taken DNA tests. Although it is gaining in popularity I don’t think the uptake in DNA testing is as high in the UK as some other countries.
Keep in mind that the shared cms you have with your matches sometimes doesn’t seem to make sense, an example, I have a few examples, where my daughter who is a generation removed, shares a higher number of cms with someone than I do.
Have you paid the additional charge to give you access to features like the Autocluster tool on My Heritage? Similar with FTDNA? It can take some time to get familiar with the features of these sites.
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I'm working my way through the clusters on myHeritage - I have manged to link the 1st one to my maternal grandfather's side using that and cross-referencing with Thrulines.
Maternal family is UK-based, all the father's side is all in one area in the Midlands but been easy to trace and had large families. The mother's side is Scottish/Irish and has been much harder, large family on one side (Scottish) but lots of dead ends on the other tricky disentangling the Scottish and Irish connections. My mother's mother never talked about any siblings and as far as anyone knows was an only child, this is what got me started on the family tree as think it is unlikely she would be an only child. I didn't appreciate the uptake in the UK was low, although had noticed that most of the larger trees have creators in the US.
I've not spoken to my mother for over 25 years and unfortunately her one sibling passed. I did think about sending her a kit in the post and not saying who it was from, but then I am reliant on her sharing her results.
I could ask one of my siblings but the issue there is if I come up as a half-sibling he will tell my Dad, and in the unlikely event he doesn't my Dad has taken a test and if he has his visible and my sibling comes up as a match he will wonder why I'm not visible. I'm not sure if my Dad has shared his results and can't figure out how I would drop that into conversation. Sorry, I'm aware this sounds like a soap opera! Guess I will have to play the waiting game.
FTDNA is confusing me at the moment, I can't work out what I'm looking at so will move on to that when I get stuck on the Autocluster.
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I see your dilemma regarding the family LL. :-\ Not so much like a soap opera - there are many many similar stories on rootschat. :)
Irish research can be very difficult at the best of times. If any of your Irish went to the USA you are more likely to find matches I think than if they stayed in Ireland.
I agree that your grandmother is not likely to be an only child, though it’s not impossible. Depending on dates, have you traced her side of the family through the censuses?
If you have an Irish Scottish tangle I would suggest asking on the Scottish board for some specific help. There are some excellent Scottish researchers who should be able to give you some help or pointers.
Although I have a very basic understanding and experience of DNA I admit to being bewildered by it so don’t feel able to offer you any more advice on the subject. Hopefully others will though. :)
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Thank you for all your help Ruskie, will check out the Scottish board at some point. I'm waiting on the 1921 census so I can see who else was in household.
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Presumably you are aware of Scotland’s People?
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
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I am, thank you. They were very helpful when I was trying to decipher handwriting.
Has anyone taken more than one DNA test? Am toying with taking one with a different company, partly to check my results (my partner thinks I'm clutching at straws) but also to see what else it may throw up - especially with the X-chromosome.
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You can upload your raw data to other companies rather than take new tests.
As luck would have if you upload to My Heritage it is currently free to access all of the DNA features. The offer is limited and well worth doing:
https://www.myheritage.com/dna/upload
A bit of information here about how to go about this:
https://faq.myheritage.com/en/article/how-can-i-upload-a-dna-file-to-myheritage
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I have uploaded to myHeritage - only used the autocluster function so far. Annoying I paid the one time fee a couple of weeks ago. Which other tools do you think are useful?
Am also on gedmatch, which has been handy for DNA painter.
I know the x-matches come up as well when upload on other sites, but was was wondering if mtDNA tests would show any more? Am still having trouble getting my head round the NPE, even though I know there was unlikely to be a mix-up at the lab I'm wondering if another test would help, can't argue with myself if two tests have the same results.
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Even when you think you have a 'complete' family tree backed by loads of research, DNA results can certainly throw a spanner in the works, as I found out recently, and it can be even more difficult when you want to protect others.
If you need any help or suggestions on untangling the Irish bit feel free to send me a PM (Personal Message) and I'll try to help.
Good luck whatever happens, aghadowey
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Sorry LL I (didn't re read the thread and) forgot that you have already uploaded your data to My Heritage.
Chromosome browser is useful.
I don't know much about mtDNA but I have read that that is the least useful of the tests (can't recall the reasons why) - I'm sure there are plenty of reviews/discussions/blogs/opinions etc to be found about mtDNA on the internet.
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Thanks, I'll have a look at the broswer. No need to apologise, we've all slept since the start of the thread :D There is some debate around how useful mtDNA is but thought it may be worth doing (or give me an excuse) if got another autosomal test.
Might take you up on that aghadowey, have been toying with setting up another account so I can ask questions on the maternal side without revealing paternal information.
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Good morning all. What a dilemma, but not an uncommon one. A couple of things for you. You may know this, mtDNA is passed down on the maternal line only. Matching on this requires that others have taken the test also.
Non parental events happen for a variety of reasons beyond infidelity. Think about that for a minute. Your mom may be harboring a secret that she is ashamed of, perhaps something traumatic. People take discovering different genetic parents very differently. My suggestion is to be gentle and to ask. The DNA results speak for themselves.
I am curious how you discovered your genetic father is different than the man you knew as your father. Has your father been tested also? You indicate your father does not know. There are several books out there that deal first hand with this type of discovery. It is a very personnel experience. I wish you the best in your quest.
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Thank you JohnDoe. I've taken the LivingDNA test in the end as thought it may help untangle the Scottish/Irish side, in addition to double-checking my results. This was also after realising I was getting confused between mtDNA and the x chromosome.
The first match that came up on AncestryDNA was Parent/Child - shared DNA 3,487 cM, across 22 segments. My Dad has been tested as well, he didn't come up but I don't know if his results are shared or not. I ignored the match for the first week or so, then went back started researching into how accurate the findings are, and at that level it's apparently fairly conclusive.
I've been estranged from my mother for over 25 years. I know NPE can occur for different reasons , but I do think if she known she would have told me - she has shared other things that have happened. I don't think it was necessarily infidelity, it sounds like a bit of an overlap at the start of her relationship with my Dad.
The second match that came up was his nephew - shared DNA 953 cM across 39 segments. I'd accidentally left myself visible after my most recent late night search (am not now) and he contacted me yesterday to ask how we are connected. It took me by surprise so I wasn't prepared, and was a bit vague as I couldn't work out if he had looked at shared matches or not.
I've joined an NPE group whilst I try and process this, and I know from reading the posts of others that I'm 'lucky' to find this match and that he is still living. It just strikes me as odd that the two closest matches that came up are people I've not got any connection with.
Sorry for yet another long post.
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No problem. This is a big shift in logic conceptually. Everyone handles this differently and that is OK. We are all human, frail, emotional and occasionaly irrational.
I never knew my father, never saw a picture of him. It was somehow alright as I grew up, I didn't feel that I was missing anything. As I became older (much), I began to quizz my mother. She had some stories but candidly she knew very little. I ultimately discovered who he was using DNA and in doing so discovered a whole side of my family that I did not know. In the process I discovered some other "family secrets" and it made me realize how little we understand why people do things. Humans. I wanted to know more about me through learning more about my roots.
The match you mention is not going to change, you are right, he is your father. How you deal with this complicated issue is up to you. Your choice. There is no fault here and you have no obligation other than to yourself. Good luck, I am sure you will make the right choice.
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Did you reply to the nephew LL?
He might be able to help you .... and you might find a whole new family you end up getting on really well with. I know it will take a while to get your head around, but don’t dismiss him.
I look after a couple of DNA accounts and one of the match of one was in a similar situation to you. He found out in his late 40s that his father was not his biological father. Long story but he ended up meeting his biological father, and he continues to research the family of the father who brought him up. He admitted that it took some time to come to terms with it.
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I replied briefly, then phoned him last night to explain. He was lovely, is happy keeping it to himself for now, told me bits about the family history and what the match was like. He's into genaology as well so had quite the chat about general issues and DNA tools, we spoke for over an hour and could easily have gone on longer but I was struggling so made my excuses.
Am emailing him the information we discussed so he can get his head around it as well.