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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Pauline Sheddan on Thursday 18 February 21 22:24 GMT (UK)
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This request is on behalf of my 81 year old neighbour who is not computer literate and partially deaf so struggles to understand phone discussions. She is an only child, has never married and has no children, so effectively the end of the family line.
She has always felt her father was abandoned and it is important to her she find some information on his birth parents and their lives and possibly learn something of their health history.
In 2007 and again in 2009 she applied to the Manukau Family Court for her fathers adoption records to be opened. On both occasions she was informed this was not possible.
The information we seek is on John Darlington Owens born 09 May 1901 at Puni, New Zealand and for the names of the birth parents. His mother’s name may have been Margaret Owens.
John Owens was adopted on 6 July 1905, when he was 4 years and 2 months, by William Henry Moulden. John’s birth certificate lists William Moulden as his father but has no other information.
I know my neighbour would be extremely grateful is any of your members can shed any light on her fathers mysterious background.
Many thanks
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Hi Pauline , welcome to RC :)
I see the 1901 birth is registered as -
Moulden , John Darlington Owens , father William Henry
Not familiar with New Zealand certificates , do they usually name the mother ?
Could the certificate been changed when John was adopted ?
ev
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Hi and thanks for the welcome.
My friend applied for John Owens birth certificate and received one with William Henry Moulden named as father but this would be the legal status following the adoption.
John Darlington Owens was adopted when he was 4 years 2 months and there is no knowledge of his birth parents. My friend remembers being told the mother might have been Margaret Owens but there is no actual confirmation.
Thank you
Pauline
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Did William Henry Moulden marry Grace MacHattie 1874 New Zealand ?
Death William Henry Moulden 1927 New Zealand , age 74.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2SB-LWZR
ev
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I'll check the detail with my neighbour tomorrow.
Thanks
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Would John's marriage or death certs have any further information ?
Not sure if you will get any further without the original birth cert. or access to the adoption records :-\
ev
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Welcome to the NZ board.
"Puni" has me beat. What area of New Zealand was John raised?
There is evidence of several Margaret OWENS, in that time frame, and a few wills. Also a Margaret Owens with a child at a Wellington Woman's Refuge Home in the 1890's.
Alan.
By drilling down on the official historic birth entry his birth is registered as 9th of May 1901 but the record number is 1966 / 106185 so was probably not registered, as such, until John was making enquiries for a copy of his birth certificate after acquiring the age of 65 [Pension].
PPS. Now see mention of Manukau Court, so assume you are referring to the Puni of South Auckland.
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"John Owens was adopted on 6 July 1905, when he was 4 years and 2 months"
What records do you have for this adoption?
NZ BDM birth
1966/106185 MOULDEN John Darlington Owens parents - / William Henry
This is 1966 registration of the 1901 birth?.....when John was 65 years old?
Is this the birth record that you have?
Can you please list all the information on this document.
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There was a Mr John DARLINGTON residing at Puni, South Auckland, in 1897, as recorded by the OBSERVER when his only daughter Jeannie married. 3/7/1897 page 8.
Alan.
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During the life of your friend's father was he known as Owens or Moulden? If he made a change to Owens when would that have been?
Was your friend given any reason why the adoption records could not be opened. Things have moved along since 2007/9 as far as adoption is concerned. Sometimes adoption advocates can sort their way through. Might pay to see if anything can be shaken loose on the adoption front now, as well as all the help you will receive here.
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The will of his adoptive father is available through Archway.
He names his 'adopted son John Darlington Owen known as John Darlington Owen Moulden' in the will. Intriguingly he names his wife Alice Carter known as Alice Moulden. He, WH Moulden, was born in London.
In 1923 a New Zealand - Certificate of Competency as Third-Class Engineer - William John Owen Moulden was issued. This has restricted access in Wellington. I find it interesting that it has the form '....Owen Moulden" as if this was a series family names.
1938 Alice Carter and JD Moulden had some land dealings in relation to the issue of a Certicate of Title. The names of the parties are Alice Carter of Auckland, Widow and John Darlington Owens Moulden of Auckland, Electrician - City of Auckland, Allotment 3 of Section 40 of the City of Auckland (R25524546)
NB 'Owen' is now 'Owens'
Alice Carter died on 7/7/1939. In her will she leaves all her estate to the 'adopted son of William Henry Moulden'. This is John Darlington Owens Moulden. From this reading it seems as though it was William Henry Moulden who adopted him and that Alice was not involved. This may have been a reflection of the male-centric times though.
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1966/106185 MOULDEN John Darlington Owens parents - / William Henry
Did he know that he was adopted?
Did his daughter know that he was adopted....during his lifetime or after he died?
When / how did his daughter know that John was adopted?
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Alice Carter died in 1939 and was 61years old when she died. Born apx 1878.
William Henry Moulden died 1927 aged 74years. Born apx 1853 so quite a bit older.
OP's neighbour's father died
1969/31340 Moulden John Darlington Owens CKA William John Owens 68Y
Perhaps Alice Carter was JDO Moulden's mother? Perhaps they lived in very straitened circumstances until WH Moulden adopted him and lived with Alice as his wife. That could explain why there was no mother entered on the certificate. She would not have needed to adopt her own son. Perhaps the wee boy was in a home until this adoption.
Just thinking off the top of my head OP, I wonder if your neighbour should take a DNA test?
Please reassure your neighbour that in these sorts of queries we do go all over the place and range far and wide and there is nothing untoward about this.....we need to get information, seek to tease out information and make sure it is correct or relevant.
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William Henry Moulden m Grace McHattie in 1874 and divorced October 1884. Their son Thomas Henry Moulden died aged 15 on 6 Aug 1893 in Auckland NZ.
WHM was not originally granted a divorce by the court so may have gone on to live with Alice Hill and I guess it is possible JD Owens was her son. But in that case I do find it odd that she was not listed on his birth certificate as his mother.
NZ birth, death and marriage certificates generally name both parents. JDO Moulden's birth certificate only lists his father and has no other information. Not even grandparents or addresses.
Margaret Owens with a child at a Wellington Woman's Refuge Home in the 1890's is interesting and maybe we could follow this lead. Also the John Darlington in Puni in 1897.
Thank you all so much for your help. The more I learn the more fascinating the search becomes.
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Hello again.
As with all research, it helps to have some understanding of the "norn's" of the period being researched. And the area that the parties were known to be residing at.
Adoption laws, and adpotion practice in 1905, was not as it is today. Informal within community or extended family was common in 1905.
https://teara.govt.nz/en/adoption
For a period I was a member of an adoption support group.
LawLink, a legal publication, published info after I drew attention to the fact that a codicil could be required to be attached to a will, to give a child cover under a will, for that grace period [then six months minimum] before the Family Court finally signed off on the full adoption, and the child was legally re-named.
Therefore I'm a little surprised than it is inferred a legally binding adoption was conferred by the Manukau Court in 1905, without apparently, corresponding updating of any civil registered birth.
Though others are more experienced than I, usually a birth registration number that carries a later year date, in the life of a person indicates a lack of record of any previous registration. It is common to find them dated at the time of first marriage; for insurance reasons; and at time of applying for a pension.
Alan.
Edited in an attempt to be more percise in the point that I wished to make.
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Can you please give consideration to these questions......
* You have very specific information about the age at adoption. Where does this information come from?
* Why was the application for access to adoption records denied in 2007?
* What happened in the next two years that prompted your friend to again apply for access to adoption records in 2009?
* The birth record that you have....can you please list all the information on it.
1966/106185 MOULDEN John Darlington Owens parents - / William Henry
* Did his daughter know that he was adopted....during his lifetime or after he died?
* When / how did his daughter know that John was adopted?
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From the little I know the natural mother does not have to adopt her own child. If she subsequently marries or lives with a person that person can adopt the child but the mother does not have to. Whether this was the case back in the early 1900s I don't know.
From the link from Teara above
'From 1915 adopted children were re-registered with the names of their adopted parents. From 1955 new birth certificates showed the adoptive parents as the birth parents. '
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Not recorded as a son in the death notice for Alice........
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19390708.2.2.3?end_date=31-12-1950&items_per_page=10&page=2&phrase=2&query=william+moulden&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1899
Minniehaha.
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Tree owner can be contacted: [About a third of the way down the page]
https://www.ancestry.com/search/categories/42/?name=Owen_Moulden
John Darlington Owens MOULDEN
________________________________________
John Darlington Owens MOULDEN from tree CRAIG - WATSON/LANKOW (Private)
No publicly available LifeStory events
No publicly available family members
6270 People0 Records0 Sources
Contact Tree Owner
Minniehaha.
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There was a Mr John DARLINGTON residing at Puni, South Auckland, in 1897, as recorded by the OBSERVER when his only daughter Jeannie married. 3/7/1897 page 8.
Alan.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TO18970703.2.16?items_per_page=10&page=2&phrase=2&query=john+darlington&snippet=true&title=ALG%2cACNZC%2cAS%2cAKTIM%2cDSC%2cFRTIM%2cKWE%2cNZH%2cNZHAG%2cNZ%2cTO%2cPWT%2cROTWKG
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19090814.2.94.5?items_per_page=10&page=2&phrase=2&query=john+darlington&snippet=true&title=ALG%2cACNZC%2cAS%2cAKTIM%2cDSC%2cFRTIM%2cKWE%2cNZH%2cNZHAG%2cNZ%2cTO%2cPWT%2cROTWKG
Could there be a connection between this Darlington family @ Puni and John Darlington Owens? Who was born at Puni?
If John's was an illegitimate birth, there is a likelihood that he would have been given the name of his putative father as an additional Christian name. This I believe was a common practice among the Scots.
Probated will of John Darlington:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21444520&digital=yes
How do you unbold stuff?
Minniehaha.
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How do you unbold stuff?
Minniehaha.
Hi Minnie,
Click on Modify, you should then see b's in [ ] before and after your highlighted word, remove them and before clicking on save, have a look at the preview, that way you can see if you have done the corrections correctly.
Cheers
KHP
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Thanks KHP. I have been caught in this situation before and thought there must be any easy way to fix it. Thank you for showing me the way........ ;D
Minniehaha.
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No problem at all, glad you are all sorted now :D
Cheers
KHP
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Re the Darlingtons and the Mouldens...do you think there might be a connection ie they are related in some way?
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Re the Darlingtons and the Mouldens...do you think there might be a connection ie they are related in some way?
Don't know at this stage shanreagh. Maybe, maybe not..... :) But the Puni 'link' is surely more than a coincidence? methinks.
Minniehaha.
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Take a looksey at this at Purewa Cemetery.
Surname MOULDEN AKA OWENS
First Names John Darlington Owens Aka William John
Age Unknown
Gender Male
Date of Death Unknown
Religion
Serial No 17451
Date of Service and/or Interment 10 Sep 1969
Type Of Service
Funeral Director C Little & Sons, P O Box 26-003, Epsom, AUCKLAND
Ashes Disposal Scattered
Book Of Remembrance No
https://www.purewa.co.nz/
Yes, I know the names are more or less mentioned in Reply #10. Wonder if there was a death notice.
Cheers
KHP
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Re post #13 and Minniehaha's #19 of the actual press clippings I found last night, there was another that I chose not to post at that time, but as the topic has moved forward, this NZ Herald link 8/9/1884 page 6, gives some background re William Henry MOULDEN
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH18840908.2.47?end_date=31-12-1899&items_per_page=25&query=Moulden+Alice+Hill&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1839&title=ALG%2cACNZC%2cAS%2cAKTIM%2cDSC%2cFRTIM%2cKWE%2cNZH%2cNZHAG%2cNZ%2cTO%2cPWT%2cROTWKG
Alan.
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Yes there is a death notice. This is the mysterious adopted boy and subsequently my friends father.
On the death certificate his father is William Henry Moulden and his mother Alice Moulden nee Hill
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Wow! This is very interesting. We have 2 clippings as follows and based on that assumed William was the injured party.
Hawera & Normanby Star, Volume V, Issue 923, 9 October 1884, page 3
Divorce Granted
Welington October 9
In the divorce case William Moulden v Grace Moulden (respondent) and Edward Corbett and James Young (co-respondents) a verdict for the petitioner, on both issues, was returned.
Poverty Bay Herald, 8 October 1889
In the divorce case, Moulden v Moulden, an application made to the Supreme Court to have a rule nisi, which had been granted on the grounds of the wife's adultery, made absolute, was refused.
The article then goes on about the evidence that had been given at previous trials.
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Here is the school record of William John Moulden
Name : MOULDEN William John
School : Northcote
Register Number : 3015
Admission Date : 1 Jul 1912
Parent / Guardian : Mr Wm Henry MOULDEN
Address : Northcote
Birthdate : 09 May 1901
Last School : Grafton
Last Day : 18 Dec 1914
Destination : Grammar School
I am guessing it was Auckland Grammar School. Could William Henry be an Old Boy of the school?
Cheers
KHP
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Alice Hill, is mentioned in the Papers Past search that Fresh Fields has found. If Alice Hill was later Alice Carter and born 1878 ie if she indeed was 61 at the time of her death in 1939, the dates do not work. The divorce was filed in 1884.
Are there two Alices - Alice Hill mentioned in the divorce proceedings in 1884 and Alice Carter who was referred to in Henry Moulden's will as 'his wife Alice Carter known as Alice Moulden'. Alice Carter Moulden in her will leaves her estate to the 'adopted son of William Henry Moulden'.
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Here is the school record of William John Moulden
Name : MOULDEN William John
School : Northcote
Register Number : 3015
Admission Date : 1 Jul 1912
Parent / Guardian : Mr Wm Henry MOULDEN
Address : Northcote
Birthdate : 09 May 1901
Last School : Grafton
Last Day : 18 Dec 1914
Destination : Grammar School
I am guessing it was Auckland Grammar School. Could William Henry be an Old Boy of the school?
Cheers
KHP
I saw somewhere that WH Moulden was born in England. I guess we should try and establish that and when he came to NZ. Also search electoral rolls for addresses as I had thought that the Mouldens lived on the city side so not sure why a child would go to Northcote school.
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Would Grammar School have been a boarding school then? Perhaps, W H Moulden moved to Northcote for a couple of years for work, only the E/R's can rule that out.
Just speculating, going in directions that get us to the fact of the matter :D
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Wow! This is very interesting. We have 2 clippings as follows and based on that assumed William was the injured party.
Hawera & Normanby Star, Volume V, Issue 923, 9 October 1884, page 3
Divorce Granted
Welington October 9
In the divorce case William Moulden v Grace Moulden (respondent) and Edward Corbett and James Young (co-respondents) a verdict for the petitioner, on both issues, was returned.
Poverty Bay Herald, 8 October 1889
In the divorce case, Moulden v Moulden, an application made to the Supreme Court to have a rule nisi, which had been granted on the grounds of the wife's adultery, made absolute, was refused.
The article then goes on about the evidence that had been given at previous trials.
Yes it seems as though the divorce was not finalised as various judges were condemnatory of WH Moulden's character and conduct. I guess the concept of 'coming to the law with clean hands' as the saying goes applied to applications for divorce at that time. The trial mentioned WH Moulden going to Australia with an Alice Hill and he refused to answer questions on this.
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Would Grammar School have been a boarding school then? Perhaps, W H Moulden moved to Northcote for a couple of years for work, only the E/R's can rule that out.
Just speculating, going in directions that get us to the fact of the matter :D
I think Auckland Grammar became a boarding school later than when JDO Moulden was at school
https://www.ags.school.nz/at-grammar/boarding/about-tibbs-house/
The family did live in Remuera at some stage and JDO could have been a day boy.
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Pauline stated in the first post 'John Owens was adopted on 6 July 1905, when he was 4 years and 2 months'.
How do you know the date of the adoption if the adoption records have not been accessed?
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Timeline for JDO Moulden
Born 9/5/1901
1901
1902
1903
1904
1905 to July
Adopted 6/7/1905 aged 4 years and 2 months
1906 Turns 5 6/7/1906 he goes to school perhaps at Grafton
1907
1908
1909
1910
1911
1912 to June
attends Northcote School 1/6/1912 - 18/12/1914
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Further to age at adoption -
See my reply #15
I have asked several questions. Can you please respond to these questions.
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WH Moulden was in partnership as a wheelwright and coachbuilder in Thames (KHP) up until 6/6/1889.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/THA18890615.2.21.2?items_per_page=25&phrase=2&query=william+henry+moulden&snippet=true
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I am a little intrigued by the fact that at some stages of his life John D O Moulden has also been known as William. Does your friend have any inkling of where the William has come from? Would it have been from his adoptive father?
There is this birth record.....a bit later than 1901 but..... Helena Alice marries a Busby in 1906.
1902/16230 Darlington William Helena Alice NR
I cannot find this William Darlington in later life (only searched NZBDM)
What's that rustling? Me clutching at a large straw!!!
Off now.
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I too, found this birth and wondered.....
1902/16230 Darlington William Helena Alice NR
But the birth date does not match in any way.
Part quote:
"In 2007 and again in 2009 she applied to the Manukau Family Court for her fathers adoption records to be opened. On both occasions she was informed this was not possible."
Pauline did your neighbour consult/engage a lawyer to apply for the records to be opened? If not, I think that step should seriously be considered.
A brief outline from the Justice Department:
https://www.justice.govt.nz/family/care-of-children/adoption/view-court-adoption-records/
• there are any other special grounds. ??
Minniehaha.
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From my reply #19-
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=21444520&digital=yes
At the outset of this enquiry there has been a suggestion that the mother may have been one Margaret Owens.
Can any 'dots be joined' concerning the housekeeper, Margaret - as having a life interest in the estate of John Darlington?
Minniehaha.
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Can any 'dots be joined' concerning the housekeeper, Margaret named in the will above of John Darlington?
Minniehaha.
Think they can be joined Minnie.
1896/1900 Electoral Roll for Franklin
John Darlington, Puni, Farmer, Residential
Margaret Darlington, Puni, Housekeeper, Residential
Cheer
KHP
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Hi KHP,
Interesting.
In the will of John Darlington she is shown as Margaret Meek or (Thomas). We need to find more details concerning this lady I think.
Minniehaha.
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1905-1906 still in Puni as Housekeeper.
1911 listed as a widow, living at 1 Pitt Terrace, Auckland Central.
1919 listed as a widow, living at 12 Wood Street, Auckland West.
I know that some housekeepers took on the title of "Mrs" for decency (not sure if that is the word I want) sake.
Cheers
KHP
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It was quite common for a woman [& child] without a bread winning spouce, to be employed as a, live in, housekeeper. The better ones eventually settling in, and creating a 'blended' family.
I had several cousins raised in such families. Especially so on farms, where the man of the house was out working the land from dawn to dusk. Someone had to look after his kids, if his wife died, or left home.
Alan
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It was quite common for a woman [& child] without a bread winning spouce, to be employed as a, live in, housekeeper. The better ones eventually settling in, and creating a 'blended' family.
I had several cousins raised in such families. Especially so on farms, where the man of the house was out working the land from dawn to dusk. Someone had to look after his kids, if his wife died, or left home.
Alan
As my mother once said, and it became a family saying ...a woman acquaintance moved to a farm to be a housekeeper and 'gradually got married'. Describes perfectly what sometimes happened.....
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...a woman acquaintance moved to a farm to be a housekeeper and 'gradually got married'. Describes perfectly what sometimes happened.....
As with my aunt, raising someone else's children, then went on to have her own.
As 1893 was when women could vote, that is when Margaret Darlington first appears.
Cheers
KHP
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We have a number of coincidences in this case of John Darlington Owens:
1.He was born at Puni.
2.John Darlington lived at Puni.
3. John Darlington had a house-keeper named Margaret* who received a life interest in his estate. According to the wording of John's will, they were probably not married to each other.
4.*Margaret has been provided as a possible Christian name for the mother of John Darlington Owens.
I don't know the area but I suspect that Puni was a small country community?
Your comments?
Minniehaha.
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I don't know the area but I suspect that Puni was a small country community?
Your comments?
Minniehaha.
Still is a community, but a little bit bigger than when John was there I guess.
Cheers
KHP
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Record for John Darlington
Date of birth
Unknown
Date of death
26 September 1903
Age at death
Unknown
Gender
Male
Region
South
Cemetery name
Pukekohe Cemetery
Plot location
Pukekohe Cemetery, Anglican Area, Row A, Plot 027
Remains type
Body
Date of burial
26 September 1903
Head stone photograph. The headstone would appear to be a recent addition.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/195437348/john-darlington
Added:
Death registration-
1903/4833 Darlington John 65Y
Minniehaha.
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Something had been niggling me, and as I couldn't find any further information on John's only daughter, I rechecked the marriage for 1897.
Minnie's link at Reply #19 stated Jeannie married Henry B Kerr:
This is the only Darlington that showed up for 1897.
1897/4685 Sarah Jane Darlington Henry Brennan Kerr
Perhaps she was known as Jeannie.
Both of them are buried in the Hamilton Cemetery.
https://www.hamilton.govt.nz/our-services/do-it-online/cemetery-search/Pages/default.aspx?surname=kerr&forename=jeannie
Cheers
KHP
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Photo of headstone:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/128758557/sarah-jane-kerr
Cheers
KHP
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Details re son of John Darlington:
Marriage:
1896/4105 Alice Maidens William Charles Darlington
Children:
1897/15531 Darlington Ivey Myrtle Alice William Charles
1908/5544 Darlington Gladys Irene Alice William Charles
Death:
1963/27346 Darlington Alice 86Y
Death notice for William Charles:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WHDT19340220.2.4?end_date=31-12-1934&query=william+charles+darlington&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1934
Added:
1934/3282 Darlington William Charles 68Y
Will of William Charles Darlington:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=9387459&digital=yes
Will of Alice Darlington:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=14751109&digital=yes
Death of daughter:
1981/33773 Darlington Ivy Myrtle 13 July 1897
Death of daughter:
1990/34498 Bright Gladys Eileen 15 April 1908
Marriage:
1931/6097 Gladys Eileen Darlington Ernest Trevor Bright
'Find a grave' for Gladys Eileen Bright nee Darlington. Interesting photograph! ???
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/169420092/gladys-eileen-bright
Minniehaha.
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yes, interesting photo :)
More investigating to do:
There are quite a few trees for Henry Brennan Kerr, and as you know some copy others, and you take it with a grain of salt.
It appears that John Darlington born 1838 England married Ellen Catherine DeNieff who was born 1843 and died 10 Feb 1868. Sarah Jane Darlington was born in 1868.
Cheers
KHP
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Death of a son of Gladys Eileen Bright nee Darlington:
1990/34497 Bright Colin Trevor 56Y
A look up of his probated will may provide further family names if anyone wishes to continue down this line of enquiry....
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=8441389
Minniehaha.
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yes, interesting photo :)
More investigating to do:
There are quite a few trees for Henry Brennan Kerr, and as you know some copy others, and you take it with a grain of salt.
It appears that John Darlington born 1838 England married Ellen Catherine DeNieff who was born 1843 and died 10 Feb 1868. Sarah Jane Darlington was born in 1868.
Cheers
KHP
There was also the son, William Charles Darlington....... :)
Minniehaha.
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Yes, saw that (1866), perhaps Ellen died in Childbirth?
If Pauline has a subscription to Ancestry, perhaps it would be worthwhile to get in touch with the owners of the trees.
Cheers
KHP
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Re Auckland Archive holdings, and look-ups.
I now have collected another batch of requests, so will be returning to the archive with my camera's in the not too distant future, all else being equal. Feel free to add to the list, if there is an interest in some not available to view online.
Alan.
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RE PUNI
Quote: "I don't know the area, but I suspect that Puni was a small country community?"
History wise 1860's Pukekohe East, on the hilly volcanic rim, was the first settlement, but when the railway arrived some 5 miles away on the flats in the early 1870's, the Pukekohe we know today, became the settlement and railway stop. Land circuling Pukekohe, was settled, aided with the arrival of the Bombay settlers.
Puni [6km South West] became one of a number of communities that radiated out from Pukekohe. Others being Mauku, Patumaho, Pukekohe East, and Buckland.
Alan.
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Hello Pauline,
You have popped it to Rootschat from time to time and now we really need some more feedback.
In particular, questions posed at the following replies:
#7
#9
#11
#15
#40.
If you could run these past your neighbour and provide us with some answers, that would be most helpful to those of us doing our best to try and solve the mystery.
We very much look forward to hearing back from you soon. :)
Minniehaha.
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The following are the answers to various questions.
We have the original order under The Adoption of Children Act 1895.
6 July 1905 an application was filed by William Henry Moulden for an order to adopt John Darlington Owens a male child aged four years and two months. ...Adjudged the child may be and is hereby adopted...
~~~~~~~~------
The copy of the birth certificate we have was issued 3 December 1997.
Info listed under child - First/Given names: John Darlington Owens Surname: Moulden Sex: M Date of Birth: 9 May 1901 Place of Birth: Puni
Under Mother all lines state Not Recorded
Under Father - First Given Names: William Henry Surname: Moulden Occupation: Coach Builder Date and Place of Birth: Not Recorded
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Following adoption he was always known as John Darlington Owens Moulden
My neighbour was not given a reason for the records not to be opened. She was told they could not be opened
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My neighbour was told of the adoption when she was 21. She understands her father always knew based on the conversation they had at the time.
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My neighbour did not have a lawyer when she applied for the adoption records to be opened but is open to trying again with legal help.
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I hope this answers the outstanding questions. Sorry I have been a bit random replying directly to some people and on the forum for others. Happy to reply on the forum for everyone to view.
And again - many many thanks to you all for your input.
Pauline
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Thank you so much for those answers Pauline. They help to keep everyone 'in the picture'. :)
I think engaging a lawyer who works in this field would be a good move to make.
Here is a link through which to make contact if required...
https://www.lawsociety.org.nz/about-us/contact/
Minniehaha.
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You need some informed assistance with this matter.....maybe a legal help-line will be able to assist you in the first instance.
Thank you for this good information. It is useful to know that there was a formal, recorded adoption.
When the adoption was recorded, a birth record would have been created.
This index entry -
NZ BDM birth
1966/106185 MOULDEN John Darlington Owens parents - / William Henry
has...1966....meaning that a 1901 birth was retrospectively created.... many years after the event.
Or....in 1966 there was an amendment made to an existing birth record.
Something happened in 1966. If the birth certificate you have does not have .....1966....written somewhere, then I wonder about the document you have. It might be an extract (abbreviated document with limited information).
If you apply for access to the adoption record you will need documentation to show that the applicant is a person entitled to access personal, legal records because of their relationship to the person named on the record.
BDM NZ offer a ....printout.....which is an image of a handwritten document, and the preferred document for family history. I do not think this will be acceptable for your purpose.
BDM NZ offer a .....certificate....and I think that a certificate will be necessary for a legal matter...a printout will not be acceptable.
I think that the applicant will also need the marriage certificate for William MOULDEN -
NZ BDM marriage
1939/6517 Annie Mary Cecelia REGAN x William John Owens MOULDEN
....death certificate to show that the person named on the adoption record is deceased -
NZ BDM death
1927/2638 MOULDEN William Henry 74Y
...and the applicant will need a certificate of her own birth.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search
The contact number for NZ BDM is 0800 22 52 52 (New Zealand only)
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Mmmmmmm 'could not be opened'......this is unusual wording for a legal decision. These usually 'decline' and often state the section in the legislation under which the decision has been made. Wording like this sounds a bit like the records may be unobtainable ie lost or not able to be found.
The act gives a male the ability to adopt a male child
'Any unmarried man who is, in the opinion of the Judge, at least eighteen years older than the child, '
Any male and femaile have to be married.
http://www.nzlii.org/nz/legis/hist_act/aoca189559v1895n8268/
There are specific people who must give permission.
In Adoptionnz.com from their history
"ADOPTION OF CHILDREN ACT 1881
[Note the openness of adoption over 100 years ago.]
The introduction of adoption was not a Government policy, but a hard fought private members Bill, just as with the Adult Adoption Information Act of 1985.
The main thrust of the Adoption Act was a concern for the adoptee
Adoptee birth certificates had birth names, and birth parents names
Adoptive parents and birth parents had access to each other’s identity
The adoptees birth surname was retained and hyphenated to the adoptive surname
The 1881 Adoption Act was replaced by the Adoption of Children Act 1895 with little change."
I think a contact with a lawyer able to pick their way through the amendments to the various acts and which sections were left intact would be a good move. There are support agencies and these will have contact with good lawyers...
In view of the birth certificate angle above I wonder if an approach to Birth Deaths and Marriages to ask for confirmation that the birth certificates issued, at time of applying for the pension and the latter ones meet the terms of the Adoption Act 1895 in that the
'Adoptee birth certificates had birth names, and birth parents names'
and
'The adoptees birth surname was retained and hyphenated to the adoptive surname
Seems to me that unless there has been legislation specifically repealing the sections of the 1895 Act that a birth certificate issued in 1901 should be exactly the same as one issued for the same birth now.
Or we could take it as read that the Darlington and Owen or Owens names are the birth parents names.
If I was involved I would probably ask BDM under the Official Information Act to confirm that the provisions of the 1895 Act have been complied with in the issue of the birth certificate issued in 1997. I would ask in a very simple way, with only a little background and finish by setting out the bona fides of the requester...daughter of the person adopted. Agencies have no right to ask why a request has been made. Not sure if BDM is subject to the OIA.
By doing this you might shake lose if the if the BDM is subject to OIA, obviously, but also if the provisions in the 1895 Act as to what appears on the birth certificate have been repealed
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NZ BDM birth
1966/106185 MOULDEN John Darlington Owens parents - / William Henry
has...1966....meaning that a 1901 birth was retrospectively created.... many years after the event.
Or....in 1966 there was an amendment made to an existing birth record.
Something happened in 1966. If the birth certificate you have does not have .....1966....written somewhere, then I wonder about the document you have. It might be an extract (abbreviated document with limited information).
........
I suspect that the request for the birth certificate was connected with a request for the pension/national superannuation here in NZ.
To be able to receive it you have to gather together a whole lot of information to show you are who you say you are.
Some people get all sorts of shocks when they get the certificate back when they find items not as they thought. This included my uncle who found that his birth surname was incorrrect, one letter was missing. He was married under the name he thought he had, with the letter included. Shortly after they decided to travel, including to China which was just opening up and found that he and my aunt were refused a double bedroom in some hotels on the basis that they had different names. My dad's one had no first name and he had to get information about what he was known as....
Or for the issue of a passport.
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Some interesting information:
Birth Registrations for 1901:
John Darlington MOULDEN 3171/66 [third quarter]
John Darlington OWENS 3804 Registered @ Awhitu December quarter.
1966 Registration:
John Darlington Owens MOULDEN 3171 @ Waiuku. [mother not shown**]
**Added: As others at this time were.
Minniehaha.
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Very very interesting.
I wonder if an application was made for the Owens 1901/3804 certificate what would be on it. Awhitu is a close location, perhaps the nearest location for the mother.
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John Darlington MOULDEN 3171/66 [third quarter]
Minniehaha.
Just adding to the above.
Registration Place: Nelson, Nelson, New Zealand
Folio Number: 3171
Cheers
KHP
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John Darlington MOULDEN 3171/66 [third quarter]
Minniehaha.
Just adding to the above, except this one says Jul 1901.
Registration Place: Nelson, Nelson, New Zealand
Folio Number: 3171
Cheers
KHP
Yes, I found the 1901 registration of 3171/66 to be Nelson but in 1966, 3171 to be Waiuku. I was hesitant to show 'Nelson' in case I was misinterpreting the numbers in this case. ::)
Minniehaha.
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I was hesitant to put it up as well, but as it was taken from BDM, thought why not and whatever clue there is, it may as well go on here. :D At least this messenger will not be shot at! :D
Cheers
KHP
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Perhaps the mother went to Nelson for the birth?
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So if someone (ie OP's friend and neighbour) was making a request for the 1901 certificate would they quote the number 1901/3804 with the name as John Darlington Owens?
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So if someone (ie OP's friend and neighbour) was making a request for the 1901 certificate would they quote the number 1901/3804 with the name as John Darlington Owens?
Ah, no. I have contacted NZ BDM without explaining the circumstances, but to say that this entry does not appear on their on line index. I was told that all they need is the full name and date of birth.
Minniehaha.
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So ask for the birth certificate of John Darlington Owens and give his date of birth? Also without explaining the circumstances ie a low key ordinary request for a birth certificate?
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So ask for the birth certificate of John Darlington Owens and give his date of birth? Also without explaining the circumstances ie a low key ordinary request for a birth certificate?
That is what I would try. However because we know there was an adoption involved around the names of "John Darlington", the person applying may run into a brick wall, perhaps? Although there is nothing marked against this particular entry on the microfiche to indicate anything other than a 'normal' registration.
Minniehaha.
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John Darlington MOULDEN 3171/66 [third quarter]
Minniehaha.
Just adding to the above.
Registration Place: Nelson, Nelson, New Zealand
Folio Number: 3171
Cheers
KHP
Could John himself have registered the birth in 1966 with the information he had? maybe he needed it to get the pension?
Cheers Janette
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That has been the thought on a couple of posts :)
Cheers
KHP
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I think this possibly describes the family of Alice MOULDEN -
New Zealand Herald 8 Jul 1939 p1
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19390708.2.2.3?
MOULDEN.—On July 7, 1939, at a private hospital, Auckland, Alice, loved widow of William Henry MOULDEN, and loved mother of William MOULDEN, of Mission Bay, and beloved sister of
Mrs. M. CRAWFORD and Mrs. E. MARTIN, of Auckland
Mrs. H. GREEDY, of Wellington; aged 75 years.
Evening Post 29 Oct 1919 p1
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19191029.2.2?
HILL.—In fond and loving memory of James Henry HILL, killed in action In France on the 29th October, 1918.....brother and sister-in-law, A. and D. Hill, Tokomaru.
Auckland Star 29 Oct 1919 p16
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19191029.2.148?
HILL.—In loving memory of our dear brother, James Henry HILL, New Zealand Rifle Brigade, who was killed in action in France, October 29, 1918....sister and brother-in-law, H. and W. MOULDEN Northcote.
HILL.—In loving memory of my dear brother, James Henry HILL, New Zealand Rifle Brigade, who was killed In action In France on October 29, 1918.......... sister and family, Mrs. Wesley MARTIN, Ponsonbv (late of Onehnnga).
NZ BDM marriage
897/1544 HILL Harriet x NIXON Hiram
1914/7331 NIXON Harriet Eliza x GREEDY Henry Thomas
1915/1163 Ambrose HILL x Dorothy OSBORNE
1890/2924 HILL Mary Ann x CRAWFORD William
1899/1420 HILL Eliza Jane x MARTIN Wesley
BDM NZ births
1871/18497 HILL Mary Ann parents Mary Ann / James
1875/11053 HILL Harriet Eliza parents Mary Ann / James
1878/646 HILL Eliza parents Mary Ann / James
1880/381 HILL James Henry parents Mary Ann / James
1882/163 HILL Ambrose parents Mary Ann / James
From WW1 NZEF record for James Henry HILL, #55966.....
father James born Lancashire......NZ 30 years
mother Mary Ann born Dublin......NZ 30 years
(record to be seen via Archway NZ)
Auckland Star 24 Feb 1904 p8
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19040224.2.81.4?
HILL.—On February 19, 1904, at her late residence. Clarence street, Ponsonby Mary Ann relict of the late James Ambrose HILL aged 60 years.
Waikumate Cemetery
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/cemeteries/Pages/find-burial-cremation.aspx
Anglican Division A Row 6 Plot 24
HILL Mary Ann died 19 Feb1904 60y
HILL James died 28 Jun 1893 62y occupation porter
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Numerous newspaper articles about the MOULDEN - MACHATTIE divorce including this -
Auckland Star 9 Oct 1884 p2
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18841008.2.23?
.....He knew Miss HILL. Went to Sydney in '83. Miss HILL was there, Was staying at the same place. Were not living as man and wife. Was not engaged to marry another if succeeded in getting a divorce. Had suffered enough with one without making a second venture.......
The marriages of the HILL siblings seem to all end in divorce, so possible for a boy born 1901 needing a family. The adoption might have been to formalise an in-family arrangement.
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NZ BDM birth
1966/106185 MOULDEN John Darlington Owens parents - / William Henry
If this record is an amendment, made 1966, to an existing birth record, the number would not change. It would be a 1966 amendment to record number 106185. This is too high a number to fit the number of births in 1901....or 1905, NZ I suspect this is a birth record, newly created in 1966.
Applying for pension?....applying for passport?.....did William travel overseas?....the birth record should have more information. And why was it needed when a birth record would have been created at adoption, 1905?
NZ BDM
1939/6517 William John Owens MOULDEN marr. REGAN Annie Mary Cecelia
Do you have a printout of this record? Might be interesting to see how William records his origins.
You will need this document to apply for access to adoption records
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After reading information online....I suspect that your friend will not be able to access adoption records. I think access is limited to the person who was adopted....her father.
Can you ask your friend about forms that she would have filled in....accompanying documents......that would have been presented when applying to a court.
I am wondering if, rather than making an application, your friend made enquiries about accessing the records....and was told that the records were closed.
They were closed to your friend.......because she was not the person who was adopted, and being the daughter was not enough of a case to make.
Your friend does not seem to have much good documentation for BDM events in her father's life, which makes me wonder if there was a formal application.
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......
Your friend does not seem to have much good documentation for BDM events in her father's life, which makes me wonder if there was a formal application.
We don't know this of course.
If she had found the original birth certificate, that has come to light here, she would not have needed to be here would she? I sense that the finding of this and then purchasing will throw light on some parts of the puzzle.
We will be able to help track back the people on BDM & PP. OP's friend has family lore about a wee boy being deserted, before being adopted, and it is my experience that this family lore most often has a grain of truth.
As for records being closed forever, genealogists and historians have been able to use various means to effect a rethink of access to old records around the world.
On personal access unexplained health issues have been one of the kinds of points leading to access.
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Part quote from above reply:
"family lore most often has a grain of truth."
I totally agree. The story may not be accurate in its entirety but there is bound to be an element of truth in it.
We are not about to give up on this one yet....... ;D
Minniehaha.
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We are not about to give up on this one yet....... ;D
Minniehaha.
No, like a good book, we like to know the ending :)
Cheers
KHP
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There has not been much volunteering of information about what documentation the friend has.
We need to hear from Pauline.
Records can be accessed for purpose of medical history, but need to be supported by statement from social / medical worker.
My suggestions are just that....somewhere to proceed with this enquiry....additional to what has already been offered..
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One step at a time. I have suggested to Pauline that the first line of action would be to try and obtain the birth printout [perhaps a certificate might be necessary if going down the legal track?] for John Darlington Owens. That, for some reason does not have any additional numbers attached to it as one would expect in an adoption situation.
Minniehaha.
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Yes good advice Minniehaha...then come quickly back to let us know what it says so we can carry on! ;D
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Hopefully, it shouldn't be a long wait to hear back, I ordered a Printout in January and it was emailed to me the next day, so they must have had a quiet period :D
Cheers
KHP
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I have just received the birth registration for John Darlington Owens. Has his birthdate and place of birth. Father is 'Adopted Parent' William Henry Moulden. No info under Mother.
Under Informant a statement; This entry has been made under the authority of Section 21 of the Births and Deaths Registration Act 1951.
Under Registrar has the date 27 January 1966
I think the next step must be another attempt to open the adoption records,.
Pauline
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Some interesting information:
Birth Registrations for 1901:
John Darlington MOULDEN 3171/66 [third quarter]
John Darlington OWENS 3804 Registered @ Awhitu December quarter.
1966 Registration:
John Darlington Owens MOULDEN 3171 @ Waiuku. [mother not shown**]
**Added: As others at this time were.
Minniehaha.
Thank you very much Pauline for providing this information. It does confirm that John Darlington Owens & John Darlington Owens Moulden were one and the same. I agree, the next step must be to obtain legal advice and try and have the adoption records opened. Your neighbour will have her father's death registration document? I would think that document would also be needed in respect of William Henry Moulden.
Good luck with the next stage of this journey. We all wish for a successful outcome. :)
Minniehaha.
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I have sent a PM to Pauline with contact details for the Moulden family should an approach be considered.
Minniehaha.