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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Fisherman on Saturday 20 February 21 21:08 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone please help.
I'm trying to locate the Pembroke Hotel on Llangyfelach Rd. I don't think it still exists and I have failed to find a map that shows it in 1871/81 when Francis Gambold was the landlord.
Fisherman
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When did it become the Pembroke Hotel as neither the 1871 or 1881 entries give a name? It’s shown as number 4 in 1881
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Hi Carole,
I can't be sure but it Francis Gambold bought the place sometime before 1871 and must have named/renamed it after the place of his birth.
I am searching old newspapers as I'm sure there is a report that mentions it.
*Added* It was Pembroke Hotel 22/3/1870 (Western Mail)
Just found: Francis went into "liquidation by arrangement" in 1882, so the hotel probably ceased trading at this time.
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:) :)Hello Chris,How are you??? in reply to your query Pembroke Hotel, on the 1885/6 electrical Reg it is still down as Pembroke Hotel, 4 Llangyfelach St, dwelling house, Innkeeper and corn merchant,didn`t he die age 57yrs 1889,his wife Elizabeth (wid) was living with their son William 1891 and she died 1901, Margaret
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Hi Margaret,
I'm hoping that 4 Llangyfelach Rd. is at the Clase end of the road and the building still exists. You are right that after his death Elizabeth went to live with William, in Dilwyn St. in Swansea.
Francis has been difficult to track. From Pembrokeshire he moved to Marylebone then back to Pembs. Before settling in Morriston/Clase
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Llangyfelach Rd still exists. The building may be there but not as the Pembroke Hotel. It is the B4489, a long road running north/south, but 4 is at the north end, bottom left of Morriston Cemetery and the DVLA car park. On Street View, there may be a hotel like building still standing. Dillwyn Street is in the centre, but now a short street, probally cut by the Express Way. On a map it is left of the Quadrant Shopping Centre.
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Hi, It seems that he was in Marleborne for a few years, most of his children were born there as far as I can see, he was a drapers assistant when he married Elizabeth.Sorry ,this is all repeated information i`m sure,what date are you looking for for the hotel?.margx
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https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3341278/3341281/47/ (https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3341278/3341281/47/)
The Cambrian . 6th March 1896
John Morgan applied for a reduction in the- assessment of a house, formerly the Pembroke Hotel, in Llangyfelach-road. The present gross rental was £35. and the rateable value £29 15s. The license for the house had been rejected for some years, and, with the exception of six months, the house had been idle. The owner, who occupied four rooms of the house, complained that he was unable to let the house because the rating was too high.
ADDED:
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3518379/3518380/5/
South Wales Daily News . 7th November 1885
THE PEMBROKE HOTEL, LLANGEFELACH-ROAD. A CAPITAL DOUBLE LICENSED HOUSE will be SOLD (with possession) by AUCTION by JAMES and JAMES, at the Weleonit- to-Town Inn, Morriston, on WEDNESDAY EVENING next, November 11th, at Seven o'clock sharp. Lease 62 years, at. the low ground rent of £1. Further particulars from the Auctioneers, and Messrs Richards and Davies, solicitors, Swansea.
Francis Gambold was trading there in 1882 as he is in court for using incorrect weights; Weekly Mail 15th July 1882. Other articles say he had a spirit license and it seems he was there in 1870.
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Talacharn,
Thank you for the extra info.
Francis and family were at The Pembroke by at least 1871 and I believe was there until his death in 1887. I would really like to know if the building still exists so that my son who lives only a few miles away could take some photos when we come out of lock down.
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Looking on Google Maps, I was wrong about the direction, as the lowest numbers are nearest the city centre. On Street View, no house remains where No 4 should be, it is an intersection of major roads.
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Just looked at street view online for Llangyfelach Road. Llangyfelach Street near the city centre leads to Llangyfelach Road going all the way to the highest numbers in Treboeth. The first property that still stands on the odd numbers side is the Three Feathers Inn, but is a high street number, almost 200. On the bottom end of Llangyfelach Road on the even number side, there are some fairly new property. A roundabout separates Llangyfelach Road from Llangyfelach Street at this point. I have a book with photos of Swansea through the years, there might be a picture of The Pembroke there. I know some historians in Treboeth and Brynhyfryd nearby, will ask them if any photos are available.
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https://maps.nls.uk/view/102183123 (https://maps.nls.uk/view/102183123)
On the map top left, there is ST JOHN. Just south-west of the J and next to the railway line, there is a PH which I believe is the Hotel. Dated 1897/1900 it will be standing.
It makes more sense for the numbers to start at the city centre.
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David, Talacharn
Thanks for your help in trying to locate "The Pembroke"
I am not convinced that it was on the Swansea end of the road. Both the 1871, RG10/5446/11/16, and 1881, RG11/5353/5446/11/16, say that it was in Clase, Morriston. There is also a newspaper article (26/3/1870) that places the hotel In the Morriston area.
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At the opposite end and beyond Llangyfelach Road, but the same road, is a building that is now 3 houses, but looks like an old public house with outbuildings. It is now Swansea Road and only a little way down from the M4.
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Just looked at details of 1870 newspaper article with mention of Pembrokeshire Hotel. The descriptions put the building in the Morriston area. Several other names are mentioned such as New Cross, Wharf Wall, Penwern, Morgan's place. I don't have access to the original census pages, but in my opinion 4 Llangyfelach Road and Pembrokeshire Hotel are in two different locations.
The photo Talacharn posted is next to a current public house, but in the vicinity of 2 other former public houses. The Joiners Arms nearby, and the other around the corner in Pengors Road. The one in Pengors Road used to be kept by the Gambold family. This house is still standing, but I don't think this was the Pembrokeshire Hotel! I will continue to make enquiries next week.
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David, Talacharn,
Thanks for the latest finds. I'm trawling through newspapers hoping to pinpoint the hotel. The best I've found so far is that one person estimated to be "a mile and half" from The Smiths Arms in Llansamlet. Not much help if you don't know where the Smiths was/is. ;D ;D
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Just looked at 1900s O.S. map for Morriston, I was surprised to see Llangyfelach Road!!! It is now called Pentrepoeth Road which goes towards Llangyfelach from Morriston Cross. A little way along this road on 1900s map is the symbol PH (public house). I still have a few local historians to ask about the Pembrokeshire Hotel. Will try them tomorrow. If you find 'Pentrepoeth Dental Practice' on google maps streetview for Morristion this is the approx location for the PH on the 1900s Morristion OS map.
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David,
I have now found The Smiths Arms. It is on the junction of Samlet Rd. and Church Rd. in Llansamlet.
Looking at a satellite image I am guessing that is about a mile and a half from the location you pointed out which would be about right, as per the newspaper report.
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We seem to be on the right track here. Just had email from Morriston History Group, confirming there was a Pembroke Arms 4 Llangyfelach Road Morriston from 1883 to 1889. Not sure why they didn't have record of period when Francis Gambold was proprietor. But the location I found is right, it was near Cross Inn, which used to be the first property on Woodfield Street next to Morriston Cross.
Looking again at the 1900s OS map, there is a gap between the back of Cross Inn and a property on the corner of Pentrepoeth Road with Treharne Road. Looking at this building on streetview, this property looks like it may have been a public house at one time. It could be this one! As soon as the archives collection in Swansea are open to the public again, I need to do some family research. I will look to see for anything relating to the Pembroke Hotel also.
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Hi David,
Great bit of detective work. Thank you.
it's been a few years since I drove through the area. I seem to remember there was a pub on Morriston Cross that they renamed "The Rat and Carrot". Would this have been the Cross Inn?
Once restrictions are over and it is safe to do so I will take a trip to the archives in Swansea as I need to do some research on another ancestor who was Dic Penderyn's defence barrister and lived and worked for a few years in Swansea.
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May I offer some thoughts from "A Local Resident"?
Start by entering 51.666700, -3.924269 into the search box of Google Maps, you should be looking north from 'Morriston Crossroads' with Prentrepoeth Road to the North West(left) and Sway Road to the North East (right).
Next open: https://maps.nls.uk/view/135196678 [nls = National Library of Scotland], {O. S. 25 inch series published 1917, this is the earliest 25" series map of the area, that I know of available on the internet} using the little red slider box move to a point just a little above halfway up the right-hand edge of the map.
And finally open: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-41203669 and scroll down to the third image.
I am inclined to think that the "P.H.", seen in the 'nls' map on the north aspect of the junction is, or could be, No.4 Pentrepoeth Road (by earlier suggestion in the thread: formerly Swansea Road?). No 8 is seen today on the streetview image by tweaking the view!
The image on the BBC website is indeed the same junction albeit some years prior to the current buildings (c.1932) seen in the streetview image.
I trust this adds a little local input to the background of the thread.
Enjoy the images and stay safe.
JohnG_Swansea.
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Hi John,
Thanks for that.
I will have to study the map a little closer.
I should be in Morriston some time later in the year, as there is some of the Gambold clan still in the area albeit a different branch, so will take a look around.