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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: BAC3 on Tuesday 23 February 21 14:16 GMT (UK)
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The following details are courtesy of prison records:
Born 1842 (?), Birmingham:
Father: John LARVIN living at Old John Street, Birmingham, in 1856:
Convicted 05/03/1856 4 years Penal Servitude and discharged from Parkhurst Prison 03/03/1860.
I have been unable to uncover any further verifiable information post-1860, although there are some deaths/marriages etc. which could be appropriate (but no ages specified!!). It is fairly certain he did not re-offend, except possibly summarily and details not published.
Can anyone help please ??? ???
Thank you
BAC3
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Ages at death are only included on freebmd entries from the mid 1860’s. You can use the freebmd ref to find the age by using GRO online
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
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I guess this is the birth registration for Thomas?
LARVAN, THOMAS CARNEY
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 267
Above died Q4 1840.
LARVAN, THOMAS CARNEY
GRO Reference: 1841 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 292
Colin
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You may have this but for ino.
1841 – John St. Birmingham
LARVIN John M 20 Bricklayer Lab IRL
LARVIN Bridget F 20 Tailoress IRL
CONNOR Bridget F 20 Tailoress IRL
CONNOR Catharine F 25 Tailoress IRL
HANNON Bridget F 30 Match Dealer IRL
This looks like John in 1891 Ct 10 House Allison St. Birmingham – Lodger with James Riley 70, Bricklayers Labourer born Castlebar
LARVIN John Lodger W M 72 Hawker(Notem) IRL Castlebar
Colin
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Possible marriage?
Marriages Sep 1860
LARVIN Thomas Birmingham 6d 278
Crutchley Emma Birmingham 6d 278
or
McNulty Ellen Birmingham 6d 278
Colin
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Could Thomas have possibly gone to the US
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-63L7-78F?i=344&cc=1438024&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMN73-X42
John
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Birth Registrations, there may be others.
LARVIN, JOHN THOMAS MCNULTY
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 151
LARVIN, CATHARINE MACNULTEY
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 135
LARVIN, ELLEN MCNULTEY
GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 131
Colin
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Ellen with her Father & 2 children in 1871
Class: RG10; Piece: 3115; Folio: 91; Page: 8;
John
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Thank you for all your information and suggestions. Much to consider.
It appears that the father John LARVIN (LAWIN in the 1841 Census) married a Bridget TARPEY on 27/11/1836 as John LARVEN...... this is seemingly the correct person given he lives in John Street, Birmingham, as mentioned above.
The December GRO details of birth for Thomas LARVAN (sic) does, however, state his mother's maiden name was CARNEY. Could TARPEY be misconstrued as CARNEY ??? There are no other entries.
I quite like the US idea. The signals are favourable and maybe a posting is recommended.
Again thank you
BAC3
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I note the 1871 census posted by John
Mary McNultey Head 80 Ireland
Patrick McNultey Son 32 Oxford
Ellen Sarvin Daughter 26 Oxford
Timothy Doile Uncle 56 Birmingham, Warwickshire
Mary Kelly Granddaughter 17 ditto
Mary Ann Larvin Granddaughter 7 ditto
Ellen Larvin Granddaughter 2 ditto
Whilst Ellen’s mothers maiden name is McNulty the only Mary Ann I can find is below.
LAVAN, MARY ANN HESSIAN
GRO Reference: 1864 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 84
There is a possibility that this is Thomas below, if so the above maybe not the right family for your Thomas?
LARVIN, THOMAS 44
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 111
The 1861 census would be helpful but I cannot find a trace?
Colin
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Probable death of Ellen junior.
Deaths Jun 1875
LARVIN Ellen 7 Birmingham 6d 140
John
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ColC, the death of that Thomas in 1873 at the age of 44 would give a birth date c1829.
John
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Thank you for all your information and suggestions. Much to consider.
It appears that the father John LARVIN (LAWIN in the 1841 Census) married a Bridget TARPEY on 27/11/1836 as John LARVEN...... this is seemingly the correct person given he lives in John Street, Birmingham, as mentioned above.
The December GRO details of birth for Thomas LARVAN (sic) does, however, state his mother's maiden name was CARNEY. Could TARPEY be misconstrued as CARNEY ??? There are no other entries.
If you look at the image where they sign, they both sign with an x but her surname is definately CARNEY.
John
I quite like the US idea. The signals are favourable and maybe a posting is recommended.
Again thank you
BAC3
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ColC, the death of that Thomas in 1873 at the age of 44 would give a birth date c1829.
John
Hi John, thank you I was able to work it out, which is why I said.
"There is a possibility that this is Thomas below, if so the above maybe not the right family for your Thomas?"
Colin
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1851 census ref HO107 2057 29 51, recorded on Anc* as DAVIN, cannot find on Familysearch.
John & Bridget were having children from at least 1838 onwards, some died between birth and 1851 census. Under various surnames, Larvan, Larvin and Laven
LARVAN, MICHAEL CARNEY
GRO Reference: 1843 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 305
LARVAN, THOMAS CARNEY
GRO Reference: 1841 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 292
LAVIN, ELIZABETH CARNEY
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 304
John
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Thank you John,
It seems we have eventually established the identity of Thomas LARVIN and his family.
I will now follow the USA suggestion as a possibility should no further details be uncovered as to his remaining in England.
BAC3
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Quote from opening post
Father: John LARVIN living at Old John Street, Birmingham, in 1856:
1841 census (John Street)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQBY-F5S
John
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1881 census for John & Bridget--interesting surname!!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-CM5V
Possible death of Bridget
Deaths Dec 1887
Larvin Bridget 70 Birmingham 6d 85
John
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By strange coincidence I did some research on Old John St. many years ago, long story.
As a result I happen to have copies of most of the families there in 1851. I thought the following might be of interest. Copies are quite faded.
1851 Back 13, 2 House John St – Larvin family
John 39 Labourer, Mayo? Ireland
Bridget 35, Roscommon Ireland
Thomas 10, Gun Trade, Birmingham
Mary 9 (Could be 7) ditto
Bridget 2 months ditto
1851 Back 13, 5 House John St – 3 doors away.
Larvin all noted as born Roscommon Ireland
John 34 Labourer, Bridget 31, Thomas 10 Labourer
Richard 7, Elizabeth 4.
Colin
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Good Afternoon Colin and thank you,
Quite extraordinary information........is there not a saying about "two coming along" ::)
The matter of choice between the two is, of course, the dilemma. The family at No: 5 seem favourite in that with the father's age cited as 34 (born 1817) closer reflects the 1841 Census at 20 (born 1821). Taking occupation as a criterion then, again, the family at No: 5 is indicated, with Thomas shown as a "Labourer" which would mirror his criminal record as a "Labourer" in 1856. An arbitrary decision possibly. The family at No: 2 will be kept in reserve!!
Again thank you. Sadly, Thomas remains elusive beyond 1860.
BAC3
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I suppose it comes down to the original prison record, did it note from Birmingham or born Birmingham?
It would be good to find the 1861 census, I have had no luck so far.
Colin
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The criminal records quote "John Street, Birmingham" as both his birth place and father's residence.