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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Roscommon => Topic started by: SharleneM54 on Wednesday 24 February 21 16:14 GMT (UK)
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Hello all ~ I am trying to find out the names of the parents for John Craven who was born 24 June 1823 in Ireland, possibly County Roscommon. His obituary says he came to New Orleans, Louisiana in 1846 from County Roscommon in Ireland. I would like some advice as to the best sources to find him in County Roscommon if he was born there. I would like to find him living there prior to leaving Ireland and then find his birthplace and parents names.
What are the best resources?
Thanks -- any help is appreciated.
Sharlene
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Welcome to RootsChat.
Does John's obituary give any more information apart from him coming from Roscommon? Were any relatives mentioned? Did he marry before or after leaving Ireland? What was his occupation? His religious denomination?
Were there any possible relatives living in New Orleans? Other people from Roscommon?
John was born 40 years before civil registration of births began in Ireland so he wouldn't have had a birth certificate. Registrations of Protestant marriages began 1845. Survival of church registers of all denominations from first half of 19th century is patchy.
Irish Genealogy Toolkit is a guide to resources.
http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/
You can look up a surname on Irish Ancestors Wizard to see where it was common in certain records.
https://www.johngrenham.com/wizard
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His obituary states he came from Roscommon to New Orleans at age 23 in 1846.
He married 16 January 1848 They moved to California June 1856 first to San Francisco, then Stockton. He was a night watchman at the State Capitol from ? (hard to see) until 1891.
Funeral held from his residence 23 September 1894
Find a Grave
He was buried St Joseph's Cemetery, Eugene, Stanislaus County California.
The stone also has wife Mary 1826-1915, son Daniel 1865-1880
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His wife died 4 November 1915 her obituary also says she was a native of Ireland nothing specific.
age 89 years 24 days,
Services at St Mary's Church internment at St Joseph's Cemetery.
I looked up the cemetery it does not give a denomination
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Services at St Mary's Church internment at St Joseph's Cemetery.
I looked up the cemetery it does not give a denomination
I'd guess Catholic.
I looked up the surname Craven on Irish Wizard website. There are many variations e.g. Creaghan.
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The church that he attended in California was a Roman Catholic Church. It is likely that he was a Catholic.
Thanks for your help!
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Leitrim-Roscommon Genealogical website
https://leitrim-roscommon.com/index.shtml
There's an associated surnames list.
Ireland Reaching Out
https://irelandxo.com
A contributor to Leitrim-Roscommon Genealogy website is a volunteer on Ireland Reaching Out.
County Roscommon boundary was changed by the Local Government Ireland Act 1898. Leitrim-Roscommon Genealogy website has information about it under topic "Transferred townlands".
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Thank you for the information. I will check it out. Sharlene Miller
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Hi,
My name is Samantha Craven, and my family descend from the Cravens of Roscommon. I have actually done the ancestry DNA test and matched a branch of Cravens who moved to New Orleans. They descend from a John Craven (1823) and a Mary Finegan. They moved to Ireland in the 1840s and seem to be the earliest Cravens in our family to emigrate to the US. The rest that went later went to Boston and NYC, and some to England including my ancestors.
This could well be your ancestor but if not it is likely he is from the same Cravens still. The Cravens in 1855 were predominantly in south roscommon, namely Taughmaconnell. There is a large family of Cravens on the griffiths valuation of 1855. I am related to all of these and have DNA matched many of their descendants today. There is also a family in the parish of cam but this is small and again still the same Cravens as I have DNA matched them too. The Cravens of South Roscommon are all related. Also John is a big name in the Craven family (past and present). My grandads dad was actually called John too.
Anyway, hope this helps somehow.
Best wishes
Sam
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Welcome to RootsChat, Sam. I'm sure that Sharlene will find your information useful.
Map of civil parish of Taghmaconnell showing townland locations.
https://leitrim-roscommon.com/MAPS/taghmaco.html
List of civil parishes in County Roscommon with corresponding list of R.C. parishes.
https://www.from-ireland.net/category/church-parish-records/roscommon
R.C. parish for the civil parish of Cam is Dysart & Tisara.
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Hi,
Thankyou for your information.
Sharlene, just to note that is a discrepancy with the Taughmaconnell RC records. According to the Irish national archives, taugh has records available from 1840ish onwards and this simply isn’t true. They have 1 year in 1842 and then there’s 20 years of missing records, this is notable when you look at the actual microfilm although it isn’t made clear on any ancestry sites or even the national archive for that matter. I have chased this up with the diocese of flo feet who are just baffled and I have asked st. Ronans church in the parish who have not yet responded. It’s interesting too as they don’t seem to know who the parish priest was during that time of the missing records however I came across a newspaper article where it mentioned the priest of the time. He had died in 1863. Patrick galvin. Funnily enough his entire tenure as priest is the exact period of missing records 😂. I often joke that I need to dig up Taughmaconnell.
If you are of the cravens of south roscommon. It will most likely be the parish of Taughmaconnell, namely the townlands of coolfree, taughmaconnell and cuilfadda. As your craven left Ireland prior to the completion of the griffiths in 1855 it is likely that the landholders on here are siblings or cousins to your ancestor John. There are 2 Williams on the griffiths valuation, one born in 1807 and the the other 1827ish (off top of my head). There is also a Michael, John, Martin, James and Patrick. These again were born between 1795- 1840.
The next record is the tithe applotment records (1830) which only has one craven in Taughmaconnell and this is a Matthew. According to one record set however this is in Taughmaconnell and according to another it’s in St. Peter’s Athlone the neighbouring parish. This however seems like it was the townland of cuilfadda which borders the 2 parishes and was occupied by cravens later in the griffiths of 1855 too. Funnily enough my ancestor who was born in 1844 was also called Matthew. So either all the cravens lived here in the 1830s or they did earn enough to pay the tithes. I read conflicting things about the tithe records. However the craven in the area reared bullock and it doesn’t state which townland it is.
Anyway, if it transpires you’re one of ours we have a craven Facebook group, all genetically related. Where we share info. You’ll find out everything there is to know about the cravens of south roscommon.
Also note there aren’t many any where else in Roscommon.
Sam x
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I really should have spell checked. That was meant to say diocese of clonfert.
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Catholic registers on National Library of Ireland website. Dysart and Taughmaconnell are neighbouring parishes.
Dysart & Tisara, diocese of Elphin, counties of Galway and Roscommon
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0544
Taughmaconnell
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0338
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Sharlene, just to note that is a discrepancy with the Taughmaconnell RC records. According to the Irish national archives, taugh has records available from 1840ish onwards and this simply isn’t true. They have 1 year in 1842 and then there’s 20 years of missing records, this is notable when you look at the actual microfilm although it isn’t made clear on any ancestry sites or even the national archive for that matter. I have chased this up with the diocese of flo feet who are just baffled and I have asked st. Ronans church in the parish who have not yet responded. It’s interesting too as they don’t seem to know who the parish priest was during that time of the missing records however I came across a newspaper article where it mentioned the priest of the time. He had died in 1863. Patrick galvin. Funnily enough his entire tenure as priest is the exact period of missing records 😂. I often joke that I need to dig up Taughmaconnell.
There are baptisms for 1842 & 1843. Marriage register begins 1863. Patrick Galvin's name is in the baptism register as parish priest. PP in 1860's was Walsh. Handwriting in baptism register 1842-3 looks same as when Rev. Walsh took over. Small, neat writing.
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Hi Sam ~~ Thank you so much for the information you shared. I am going to study it all in detail. Since you took a DNA test at Ancestry I wonder if you match my sample. It is identified as M.C. I would like to contact you privately about the DNA matches as not sure people want their names publicly listed on this site.
Would you please tell me who your grandparents are on your Craven line and back to your immigrant ancestor.
I would really appreciate it if you could email me * to discuss the DNA matches.
I have found that M.C. matches a Craven that descends from William George Craven. This match indicates he was born 14 August 1837. She says his birthplace is in Ballinasloe, County Galway, Barony Killian, Parish Moylough, Town Bonvirian, but I think the town should be Bovinion instead. I see that Ballinasloe is on the border between Galway and Roscommon.
I have seen the same names you mentioned in the Tithe Applotment records and the Griffith's Valuation. I agree that it is very likely that these people are related to our Craven family.
Thank you again for your messages. I hope to hear from you in my email to discuss the DNA results since we both have tested there.
Sharlene
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Sharlene, personal email addresses aren't allowed on the forum. Neither are names of people who are alive or may be alive. This type of information should be exchanged via personal message. Sam should be able to send and receive personal messages after making 3 posts. Click on the user-name or either symbol below it to access personal message option. .
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Hi,
Thanks for the clarity of the priest. I am rolling these dates off the top of my head. I just know theres 20 years missing of parish records that according to the national archives are there as well as other ancestry sites. It send me on a wild goose chase for years LOL.
Sharlene, you havent come up as a match but it does look like its the same one based on the info you have provided. This is the record
Name
John Craven
Gender
Male
Birth
1823 • Ireland
1823
(AGE)
Marriage
11 Jan 1848 • New Orleans, Orleans, Louisiana, USA
Mary Finnegan Craven
(1826–1912)
1848
25
Birth of Daughter Catherine A. Craven Tarbat(1848–1919)
6 Nov 1848 • Louisiana
1848
25
Birth of Son Michael John Craven(1852–1928)
Nov 1852 • Louisiana
1852
29
Birth of Daughter Mary Ann "Marie" Craven Ford(1857–1917)
2 august 1857 • California
1857
34
Birth of Daughter Elizabeth M. Craven Simpson(1860–)
Jul 1860 • California
1860
37
Birth of Daughter Ella Craven Meier(1863–1939)
May 1863 • California
1863
40
Birth of Son Daniel P. Craven(1865–1880)
15 Jan 1865 • California
1865
42
Birth of Son Thomas Joseph Craven(1869–1921)
Apr 1869 • California
1869
46
Death of Son Daniel P. Craven(1865–1880)
15 Nov 1880 • Eugene, California
1880
57
Death
1894 • Eugene, California
I will send you my email so we can share matches and maybe i can provide you some hints to filter through the matches.
best wishes
sam
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Thanks for the clarity of the priest. I am rolling these dates off the top of my head. I just know theres 20 years missing of parish records that according to the national archives are there as well as other ancestry sites. It send me on a wild goose chase for years.
Birth of Son Thomas Joseph Craven(1869–1921)
Apr 1869 • California
1869
I agree it would be helpful if it was obvious from the title that 20 years are missing. It's apparent once you click on the select a year heading.
Off on a tangent - the California link. A contemporary of John Craven from Taughmaconnell became governor of California in 1860's.
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Yes, it’s a bit of a nightmare. Worst thing is there are volunteers who advise that the records are available from 1842 in Taughmaconnell including advisors on Ireland reaching out and ancestry as well as findmypast claim the records are available from 1842. So obviously when one is doing searches and my ancestor who was born in 1844 wasn’t where I thought he would be I looked at the original microfilms and found the missing records. Problem is according to the diocese the records for that period are available but admitted they didn’t know where the originals were and are baffled as to what has happened. They suggested st ronans and myself and another lady have both contacted the church but with no response. The priest during the time of the missing records was Patrick galvin. He was priest from 1843-1862 ish (top of my head again). Surely that’s not coincidence. Obviously finding these mystery records is important because it will answer so many questions for me LOL. And other cravens.
Wow that’s excited about the California governor. Which governor was it and how are they connected to John? So I can post it in my Facebook group lol
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I am looking at the map and found Taughmaconnell and it is not far from Ballinasloe. Both are in the southern part of the county. That is good and also evidence that these Cravens are related. The one's descending from John Craven born in 1823 and came to Louisiana in 1846 and his wife, Mary Finnegan.
The DNA match that named Ballinasloe helps also to provide evidence that the southern Cravens are likely related.
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Tbf Sharlene, the registration district for half of Taughmaconnell is ballinasloe. So for example those who left to the west of the parish of Taughmaconnell were registered as ballinasloe, and to the east of Taughmaconnell parish people are registered as athlone. In some records it’s registered as brides well. My ancestors come from coolfree and rockland townland in Taughmaconnell parish but it is registered as ballinasloe on death certificates etc. Also just to note moylough is in north Galway near killian. It’s not in ballinasloe so there is some confusion there somewhere. Btw I sent you an invite to the Facebook group last night, you may need to check junk etc but if you accept it should take you to the Facebook group. Easier to talk to us all then lol.
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Also based on the name of johns eldest son I am going to hazard a guess that Johns father was either a Michael or a John. And you will find both names on the griffiths valuation in 1855. I think Michael was older as I haven’t been able to find a death certificate for him meaning he died before 1863 but after 1855. This could indeed by your Johns father, or his brother. The John on the griffiths valuation of 1855 seems to be a bit younger and possibly too young to be your johns father.
Also note when looking at the griffiths valuation that they often have lots of records for the same name so a few plots for John, Martin, William, Michael and so forth. These are not different people. If you look at the original records of the griffiths it will tell you what is on the plot ie a house. You will find that there is usually one plot with a house and the rest of the plots of the same name are just land plots. When you study the ordinance survey maps you will see that there plots are actually together and the houses are grouped together. It helps if you learn what the letters mean in the original documents so you can find the plot on the maps - ask ireland.com is really good for this as it allows you to look at old maps and modern maps. Specifically however on Taughmaconnell townland there is a William, Michael and John. On coolfree and camla there is Martin craven (my ancestor). He has 2 plots one with house on coolfree and land on camla (or other way round) but they are next to each other. We also have a William and James living on cuilfadda townland. This is in 1855. All these townlands are in the parish of Taughmaconnell.
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I am looking at the map and found Taughmaconnell and it is not far from Ballinasloe.
Taghmaconnell townland NE of Ballinasloe.
https://www.townlands.ie/roscommon/athlone/taghmaconnell/taghmaconnell/taghmaconnell/
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https://i1.wp.com/taughmaconnell.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/IMG_0003-001.jpg?w=701&ssl=1
Here is a useful resource covering the parish of Taughmaconnell. It includes all the townlands in the parish including the ones I have mentioned. There is a townland called Taughmaconnell with some cravens. However, the cravens are on other townlands within the parish of Taughmaconnell
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https://i1.wp.com/taughmaconnell.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/IMG_0003-001.jpg?w=701&ssl=1
There is a townland called Taughmaconnell with some cravens.
The map lists and shows the townlands in Taghmaconnell civil parish. The townland of Taghmaconnell is on the list.
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I know lol. It’s just the link I shared is a picture and it helps to gauge perspective of the cravens within the parish, as often they have plots covering 2 townlands and it’s helpful to see them visually as they are usually next to each other.
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https://i1.wp.com/taughmaconnell.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/IMG_0003-001.jpg?w=701&ssl=1
Here is a useful resource covering the parish of Taughmaconnell. It includes all the townlands in the parish including the ones I have mentioned. There is a townland called Taughmaconnell with some cravens. However, the cravens are on other townlands within the parish of Taughmaconnell
Map of civil parish of Taghmaconnell showing townland locations.
https://leitrim-roscommon.com/MAPS/taghmaco.html
Same map with townlands in alphabetical order. The one I posted is in colour. :)
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Thankyou for sharing. Didn’t see that link, just saw Taughmaconnell townland 😂
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Hello I have been doing my family tree since 1980. After my brother did the Ancestry DNA and told me about the Craven’ in Stockton California it all came together but still skeptical. I now have proof besides DNA that one we look like them but most importantly the Craven family reunion in Stockton around 1904 states in the newspaper that it was attended by their cousin from New Orleans Thomas Joseph Craven my grandfather brother. Anything you want is on geneanet. It’s free to join but you don’t have to. Punch in any Craven from New Orleans and the tree will show up. John was the brother to Daniel my great grandfather and Lawrence. Their mother Mary is buried in St. Patrick cemetery number 1. Daniel had a huge family and each child had a large family. This ought to answer a lot of your questions and yea they were devoted Catholics. Daniel granddaughter from his son Joseph was a nun buried in Notre Dame University.Joe