RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Caltha on Monday 01 March 21 23:29 GMT (UK)
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I understand that the 1881 Census recorded Gaelic speakers, but having had a look at a few, I cant find any mention of this. Can someone give me some pointers on how I find out if a relative was gaelic speaking?
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I have looked at quite a lot of people in the 1881 Scottish census but I have never seen anything about speaking Gaelic. I don’t think that was required information.
Where did they live? You might be able to draw some general conclusions from the area.
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Not the 1881 Census but 1891, 1901 and 1911.
Don
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You could post details of your relative here for others to help you as there are many factors which could be considered as a possibility in them being Gaelic spoken.
Annie
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There are numerous references to how Gaelic speaking was one of the queries on the 1881 census. This is just one of these but a Google search will provide many more. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/map-how-spread-scottish-gaelic-speakers-has-changed-1891-1435525%3famp
I know a lot about the family, but just not sure where this Gaelic reference is recorded on the form, or perhaps we just see part of it on Scotland’s People.
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On the 1891 census it's the column immediately after the one with the parish of birth. What was entered is either Gaelic or Gaelic and English. If you didn't speak Gaelic, the column was left blank.
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There are numerous references to how Gaelic speaking was one of the queries on the 1881 census. This is just one of these but a Google search will provide many more. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/whats-on/arts-and-entertainment/map-how-spread-scottish-gaelic-speakers-has-changed-1891-1435525%3famp
I know a lot about the family, but just not sure where this Gaelic reference is recorded on the form, or perhaps we just see part of it on Scotland’s People.
I think the newspaper article you have provided a link to is inaccurate. They possibly meant 1891. The 1881 census does not have a question about speaking gaelic on it. And I am pretty sure what you see on the SP version is all the information that was gathered about each household.
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Thanks for all your feedback. The National Records of Scotland confirm that the 1881 Census did indeed have a question on Gaelic speaking, but I guess you have all run into the same problem as me and cant find where the response is shown in the copies available from Scotlands People.
This is the NRS link:
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/census-records/1881-census
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I assume that the 1881 census is the last in which your ancestors were in Scotland, otherwise you could just look at the 1891. However if they lived in a rural community where many of the population were likely to stay put, you could look at the 1891 census for the same location and see what proportion spoke Gaelic. You could probably draw an inference from that. (If they lived in a city where the population was likely to change a lot over 10 years that wouldn’t work).
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On the NRS link , if you enlarge the Census sheet , is that a "G" at the end of where born :-\
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/census-records/1881-census
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//images/alma-street-govan-ref-1881-646-01-19-p7.jpg
ev
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On the NRS link , if you enlarge the Census sheet , is that a "G" at the end of where born :-\
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/census-records/1881-census
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//images/alma-street-govan-ref-1881-646-01-19-p7.jpg
ev
Well spotted!
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I understand that the 1881 Census recorded Gaelic speakers, but having had a look at a few, I cant find any mention of this.
Are you looking at original documents or a transcription?
See for example the attached page from the 1881 census of the parish of Lochs on the Isle of Lewis. All of the people listed were Gaelic speakers, according to the G following their places of birth.
In later censuses there was a dedicated column for this detail.
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The 1881 LDS transcription(free on SP) has for example -
Neil Mc Lean , head , 35 , ship carpenter , birth place Mull (G) Argyll.
ev
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Thanks Elwyn - the one that Im interested in passed away by 1891, but Ive written to the NRS and when I get a response I will feed it in here. Thanks again for your interest and comments.
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The 1881 LDS transcription has for example -
Neil Mc Lean , head , 35 , ship carpenter , birth place Mull (G) Argyll.
Now that is very interesting, because the CD-ROM version of the LDS transcription does not include the G against the birthplaces of any of the people in Lochs on the page I posted.
So it seems that the LDS transcribers were not consistent in their treatment of the G.
The FindMyPast transcription does include the G as part of the birthplace.
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Thanks Elwyn - the one that Im interested in passed away by 1891, but Ive written to the NRS and when I get a response I will feed it in here. Thanks again for your interest and comments.
Why wait for the NRS? Why not just view the relevant 1881 census and you should have the answer?
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Thats interesting Forfarian - I'll check Find My Past and see what they come up with, although its strange that it doesnt appear in the Scotlands People scan of the census form.
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Forfarian - Ive looked at the written census form downloaded from Scotland People.
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Caltha
If you would like to learn...
https://learngaelic.scot/sol/index.jsp
ciamar a tha sibh? how are you?
Its also on BBC Alba... at 7.30pm...
Regards
Mark w
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Forfarian - Ive looked at the written census form downloaded from Scotland People.
Well, if you have the handwritten original and it doesn't include the G, there are two possible explanations.
One is that the person in question didn't speak Gaelic.
The other is that the enumerator either failed to ask the right question, or failed to write down the answer.
Where was this census? Are there others on the same page with a G against them?
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Forfarian - the 1891 Census provides a column where the details can be entered as G or E or both. This column doesn't appear in the 1881 version (at least the one I have), but the NRS have indicated that it was part of the census that year. The family are in Glasgow which by then had almost 200,000 people from 'Highland' stock. I cant inagine that they issued a different form for the Highlands and Isles, but I'll get to the bottom of it and pass any info i get through this chat string.
Thanks again for your help and advice.
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Forfarian - the 1891 Census provides a column where the details can be entered as G or E or both.
Yes, I know, I referred to that in Reply #11 above.
This column doesn't appear in the 1881 version (at least the one I have)
No. See the census extract I posted in Reply #11 above.
but the NRS have indicated that it was part of the census that year.
Indeed they have. It says so in the link posted by ev in Reply #9 above.
The family are in Glasgow which by then had almost 200,000 people from 'Highland' stock. I cant inagine that they issued a different form for the Highlands and Isles, but I'll get to the bottom of it and pass any info i get through this chat string.
They obviously didn't issue a different questionnaire or enumeration book for the Highlands, because as you can see from the page I posted from the Western Isles in Reply#11 above, there is no separate column.
If there is no G against your relative's name, it means either that your relative did not speak Gaelic, or that if they did the enumerator omitted to include the G for whatever reason.
So you will probably find that the NRS has no additional information about your relative in particular, and you will have to take an educated guess based on where your relative was born and what the prevalence of Gaelic in that parish was in the earliest year for which that information is available, i.e. 1881 if the enumerator was being diligent and 1891 if he was not.
Why not post the extract from the 1881 census with your relative in it and see if someone can come up with a reasonable answer?
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Thanks everyone - i managed to get the info on other family members in the 1891 Census that confirms they were Gaelic speaking. Apprciate everyone's advice.