RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: davidgp on Tuesday 02 March 21 09:39 GMT (UK)
-
After a recent Ancestry DNA test I find I'm closely related to a number of people about whom I know nothing genealogically speaking.
Few of them have useable family trees on Ancestry - so I have correlated matches and created trees. All are descendants of Thomas Edward HARRIS reputedly born in Ireland in 1833. Thomas had two wives and I'm certain the connection is through him as I've DNA matches with children in both branches. As the matches are at 3rd cousin level Thomas has to be a son in one of my known families.
However, Thomas Edward HARRIS is a post-US Civil War creation. Continuity comes through his first marriage to Roseanna Jane BARBER and suggests he was Thomas ROLLINS born 1833 in Lancashire. US Census records suggest he emigrated in 1857.
I've looked for a ROLLINS (and soundalike names) birth in Lancashire parish registers but no luck. He married and died a Catholic so this possibly explains the difficulties in finding him in parish registers. He should be in the 1841 as an 8 year old and in the 1851 as an 18 year old but I've had no luck there and no sight in a passenger list around 1857. He went to Boston, Mass.
I've a strong idea which Lancashire catholic families he could be from in my maternal tree but I would dearly like to find a UK record. Any sightings or suggestions?
-
Continuity comes through his first marriage to Roseanna Jane BARBER and suggests he was Thomas ROLLINS born 1833 in Lancashire
When was the marriage and where? Do you have any more information from it?
There's a Thomas age 8 in 1841 Staffordshire :-\
-
The marriage was in Massachusetts - in the record Roseanne states her father to be Joseph BARBER but there is no entry for Thomas ROLLINS's father. (BARBER was a papermaker and his family group with Roseanne can easily be found in the UK census - sadly gives no help with Thomas).
-
I see thanks.
-
There is a Catholic Rollings family in Liverpool around the time you want.
St Mary Highfield Street Liverpool
Born 3 April 1831
Baptised 22 April 1831
Elizabeth daughter of Matthew and Helen Rollings godparents Thomas and Ann Spencer
William and Alice Rolling had a son William Frederick York baptised at St Mary RC in 1829
-
Matthew married Ellen Rainford in 1 February 1824 at Christchurch Liverpool. This was Church of England as until 1837 marriages in a RC church were not legal in the eyes of the law. Matthew’s name has been written as Rawlings and that is what it is indexed as on Ancestry but Matthew has written Rolling. He is listed as a brewer.
The 1829 directory of Liverpool lists John, Matthew and William Rolling. John is a grocer and provision merchant and the other two are Victuallers.
-
@Gibel - thanks for the information on the Liverpool ROLLINGs. Don't quite know how to squeeze a Thomas into the family - my supposition is that he was an illegitimate child of a ROLLINS mother. It's very frustrating as Thomas's lines are so close genetically to me the relationship almost has to be a common ancestor at his mother or father's level. None of my 'usual suspect' Lancashire family seems to fit.
Just to add a bit of info about Thomas - seems his life-long occupation was a shoe and bootmaker. I have similar trades in other family branches and it seems shoemaking might be a grandfather-father-son business.
-
Sorry no Thomas, but an RC baptism in Leigh, Lancashire. Illegitimate? Father named as John Rolling
Baptism: 8 Mar 1829 St Joseph RC, Bedford, Leigh, Lancashire, England
Helen Hunsworth - [Child] of John Rolling & Mary Hunsworth
Godparents: Thomas Hunsworth; Ann Boardman
There is also a Rawling family in Oldham, Lancashire with occuaption shoemaker
Baptism: 15 Mar 1835 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Rawling - Daughter of Henry Rawling & Mary
Abode: Croft Bank
Occupation: Shoemaker.
Baptism: 28 Aug 1836 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England
William Wilson Rawling - Son of Henry Rawling & Mary
Abode: Mount Pleasant
Occupation: Shoemaker
Baptism: 3 Jun 1838 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Mary Jane Rawling - Daughter of Henry Rawling & Mary
Abode: Mount Pleasant
Occupation: Cordwainer
-
Also and maybe not much help, but there are also a ton of Rollinsons in Lancashire (and Yorkshire). Might it be possible he shortened his name?
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
-
@sallyyorks The ROLLING baptism in Leigh is very interesting as I have Irish catholic families in Bedford, Leigh in my mother's tree. I'll have to see if either ROLLING or HUNSWORTH tie into my familes (there must be ties somewhere to PARR, SPEDDING, SMITHIES or HOLDEN families according to the DNA results).
Your idea that he shortened his name in America is also a great alternative idea as I've been researching ROLLIN(S)/RAWLING(S) names and not ROLLINSON - brilliant suggestion.
Thanks - all most helpful
David
-
Most Catholics in the North of England, especially at this time, would be more likely be English than Irish. Lancashire, and Yorkshire, had/has high numbers of English Catholics and also Nonconformists, as well as CofE.
Mary Hunsworth possibly had more illigitimate children, there is also a James baptised 1833, though this does not necessarily mean he was born in 1833. He was baptised at Culcheth which isn't far from Leigh, no father named. Also an Ann 1830 and Alice 1837
I had a look for Mary and children on the census but it's quite a common surname in the area. I think Helen/Ellen might have died young.
Not sure if you've used it before but the Lancashire OPC site I linked is a great resource for anyone with ancestors in Lancashire
-
Most Catholics in the North of England, especially at this time, would be more likely be English than Irish. Lancashire, and Yorkshire, had/has high numbers of English Catholics and also Nonconformists, as well as CofE.
Although there were long-established communities of English Catholics in Lancashire, Irish migration to Lancashire predated the mass migration in 1840's caused by the Great Famine.
There were Irish Catholics in Lancashire in 1820's & 1830's in places where there was work for them. Some would have been seasonal laborers, returning to Ireland for winter or whenever the work was finished. Others settled in Lancashire. Steamers made journey across the Irish Sea quicker from 2nd decade of 19thC.
A mill-owner in a village near my birthplace in S.E. Lancashire brought a group of Irish Catholics from Manchester in 1820's when he fell out with the local workforce. He provided his new workers with a room to use as a chapel.
Baptism (from 1825) and marriage (from 1830's) registers for a Catholic chapel in the town of Bury in Lancashire show a high proportion of Irish names from the start of both registers. Abodes in marriage register of grooms, brides and parents were in many Irish counties.
A Irish maternal line, who eventually settled in Preston, were agricultural labourers in W. Lancashire on 1841 census. That census was taken in summer so they may have been seasonal migrants.
-
@sallyyorks - yes, I know Culcheth. I'll see if I can establish where Thomas went.
I had one other possible lead from an 1833 birth in Atherton (same non-conf chapel as other relatives) but no luck as this Thomas ROLLINSON lived and died in Leigh and did not emigrate.
@Maiden Stone - thanks for the perspectives on Lancashire catholics as I have both Irish and long-time English Catholics in my mother's tree.