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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Lindyloowho on Friday 05 March 21 23:56 GMT (UK)
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My dad joined the Northumberland Fusiliers in 1922, age 18, and in 1923 was posted with the 1st Battalion to Cologne, Germany, where he stayed for 15 months. In October 1924 he was then posted to Ballykinlar, Ireland for 4 years.
Questions - what would they have done in Germany at that time, and more importantly to me, Ireland? I understand Ballykinlar was an internment camp for Irish prisoners, but that only seemed to be until 1921. My dad told my brother he saw things in Ireland he wished he’d never seen?
Anyone with knowledge of that era and the Army’s role in these areas?
Thank you, Linda
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From the Internet:
In August 1920 Winston Churchill told the British Parliament that the BAOR comprised approximately 13,360 troops, consisting of staff, cavalry, Royal Artillery, Royal Engineers, infantry, machine gun corps, tanks, and the usual ancillary services. The troops were located principally in the vicinity of Cologne at an approximate cost per month of £300,000 (£13,888,000 in 2021).[2] The Cologne Post was a newspaper published for members of the BAOR during this period.
From 1922 the BAOR was organized into two brigades:[1]
1st Rhine Brigade
1st Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers 1922–1926
1st Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment 1922–1926
2nd Battalion Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders 1922–1926
1st Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment 1922–1924
2nd Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment 1926–1928
2nd Battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers Nov 1926 – Oct 1929
Germany. The objective I suppose was to stop another war. Not a success .
Ireland. I am not sure there was an objective. Not a success.
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Thank you - I’d never heard of the British Army of the Rhine!
It all helps to add to his service record.
Linda
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Thank you - I’d never heard of the British Army of the Rhine!
The British Army of the Rhine was a fixture for half my lifetime until after the reunification of Germany and the end of the Cold War. Having looked it up on internet, the one I knew was the second one of the name.
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Information on Ballykinlar: http://www.kildare.ie/ehistory/index.php/ballykinlar-internment-camp-1920-21/ (http://www.kildare.ie/ehistory/index.php/ballykinlar-internment-camp-1920-21/)
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In October 1924 he was then posted to Ballykinlar, Ireland for 4 years.
Questions - what would they have done in Germany at that time, and more importantly to me, Ireland? I understand Ballykinlar was an internment camp for Irish prisoners, but that only seemed to be until 1921. My dad told my brother he saw things in Ireland he wished he’d never seen?
Balykinlar, County Down aka Abercorn Barracks. The new Northern Ireland government continued to use it as an internment camp after 1921. A former inmate, Louis Walsh who became a judge, wrote a book about it. Another source is "Internment Northern Ireland 1922-1961" by John McGuffin.
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Abercorn Barracks, sometimes referred to as Ballykinlar Barracks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abercorn_Barracks
Snap, Maiden Stone ;D
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In local newspapers of time, first mention I can see of 1st Northumberland at Ballykinlar, was in a Troop Movements section for Recent Arrivals in Ulster Command. Newspaper dated 18th Feb 1926, and states they moved to Ballykinlar from Dover.
Various mentions of them therefter in 1926, 1927, then 1928 until they left in October1928.
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Belfast News Letter, 13 Oct 1926
Military movement in Ulster
The 1st Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers, who were moved from Ballykinlar to Mayhill Barracks, Glasgow, at the beginning of the general strike in May, have received official intimation they are to proceed to their station in Ulster tomorrow.
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Civil Authorities (Special Powers) Act 1922 passed by N.I. government. Known as "the flogging Act" as one of the provisions was punishment of male offenders by whipping. Other provisions included internment, curfews, breaking up assemblies, blocking roads, lanes &c and ferries, censorship, taking over private property, and capital punishment. Offences included having or using a motor or other cycle or motor car without a permit from the civil authorities. Internment lasted 1922-24; it was used again in 1938 and 1971. The Civil Authorities (Special Powers) Act was renewed annually until 1925 when it was made permanent to avoid having to debate the renewal and argue with the small number of Nationalist members of the Stormont Parliament. The Act was repealed in 1973 when the Stormont parliament was abolished.
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Many thanks for all the responses.
So it would seem Ballykinlar was used as a prison camp even after 1921 - and based on Maiden Stones finding below, no wonder my poor dad was horrified by what he saw as an 18 year old soldier just left home😢
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Balykinlar, County Down aka Abercorn Barracks. The new Northern Ireland government continued to use it as an internment camp after 1921. A former inmate, Louis Walsh who became a judge, wrote a book about it. Another source is "Internment Northern Ireland 1922-1961" by John McGuffin.
Take into account bias/viewpoint of authors when reading. Chapters of John McGuffin's book are on internet. Chapters 5 & 14 may be of interest. McGufffin was involved in the civil rights movement in NI in 1960s and was interned. He was an anarchist and a Protestant. Died 2002, obits online.
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So it would seem Ballykinlar was used as a prison camp even after 1921 - and based on Maiden Stones finding below, no wonder my poor dad was horrified by what he saw as an 18 year old soldier just left home😢
A ship was initially used for interned prisoners in 1922. There were too many prisoners (mostly nationalist) so some were transferred to other prisons.
Your dad's regiment may have been required to maintain order anywhere in the province.
Reading contemporary newspapers may give you an idea of what was happening but they need to be read with a dose of salt as they were politically biased + those published in NI were subject to censorship under the Civil Authorities (Special Powers) Act 1922. The Act can be read online; there are 35 clauses.
To understand the thinking, decisions, actions and fears of NI and UK governments you also need to know about events in Ireland, Britain and Europe in that decade and the preceding one. Trades unionism, strikes (1913, 1926), nationalism, the Great War, Russian Revolutions & civil wars, Irish nationalism, War of Independence and Civil War.
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Again, thank you. Growing up in England during the 60/70’s obviously I was aware of the problems in Ireland, but admit to being woefully ignorant of anything before that. His service record does states specifically Ballykinlar so I have to believe he was stationed at the actual camp.
I will be looking online for more resources to gain a better understanding of what was happening - and will keep an open mind!🤨