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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: lnr on Thursday 11 March 21 03:08 GMT (UK)

Title: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Thursday 11 March 21 03:08 GMT (UK)
 Please note: This family have no relationship to mine: The story that I know. A child came out from Scotland when young used to wear a kilt His name was John. His father also John. He was born after an irregular Scots marriage. Mothers name unknown said to be from Royal Stuart Clan. His father John a highland baird.. When John was little his mothers brothers came and took her home. Now he and his father came to NZ. Have been looking at all sorts of fami.y trees concerning this family and nothing seems to be quite right. I also know that they were in Nelson so also in this story is they came on the CRESSWELL 1859. but all I can find is a John Mclachlan, wife and 2 children. John Mclachlan snr apparently married again and had more children but I dont know if that was scotland before he came or here in Nz. John jnr on the Family trees states he was born as John Scott Mclachlan born July 1851 Glasgow or Stirlingshire.( I cannot find this on Scotlands people) He then married Evelyn HODGKINSON 1877 NZ and had 2 Daughters Alice Maude and Francis Evelyn and adopted a maude Mary GILBERT  John jun died may 23 1925. I cannot find John snrs marriage, death or  marriage. to whom or children. I would like some constructive proof for this Thanks Lnr     
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: minniehaha on Thursday 11 March 21 03:40 GMT (UK)
As a starting point, John junior's death....

1925/7720   McLachlan   John   72Y

Where died/buried?

The above mentioned 1877 marriage:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NEM18770512.2.8?end_date=31-12-1901&phrase=2&query=john+m%27lachlan&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1859


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Thursday 11 March 21 03:55 GMT (UK)
sorry dont know this lnr
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Thursday 11 March 21 05:09 GMT (UK)
As a starting point, John junior's death....

1925/7720   McLachlan   John   72Y

Where died/buried?

Minniehaha.

This could be the chap.

https://www.marlborough.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/cemetery-records-search

John McLauchlan -note spelling of name.

    Given Names : John
    Surname McLauchlan
    Date of Burial : 25 May 1925
    Cemetery : Omaka
    Cemetery : Division No. 3 Lawn
    Block : Number 7
    Row :Number 0
    Plot Number 44
    Warrant Number : 46577

Looks like there are two other plot members


Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 11 March 21 05:47 GMT (UK)
Hi lnr

Is that the correct year of voyage, for the "Cresswell"  ??

Seems the 1859 voyage was London to Lyttelton - cant see the  surname McLACHLAN / McLAUCHLAN (or other variant), on the passenger list ??

    ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: minniehaha on Thursday 11 March 21 07:14 GMT (UK)
Death possibilities for John senior...

1895/4802   McLachlan   John   69Y

1898/1773   McLachlan   John   87Y

1875/1963   McLachlan   John   45Y

Added:

1883/1832   McLauchlan   John   82Y

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: minniehaha on Thursday 11 March 21 07:30 GMT (UK)
1898 death:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18980418.2.28?end_date=31-12-1898&items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=john+m%27lachlan&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1898

1883 death:

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers?phrase=2&items_per_page=10&snippet=true&query=john+mclauchlan&start_date=01-01-1883&end_date=31-12-1883


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 11 March 21 09:12 GMT (UK)
The 1895 death is on Ancestry as

John Mc Lachlan
Death Date:   Jul-Aug-Sep 1895
Registration Place:   Wairau, Auckland, New Zealand
Folio Number:   1481


I think Wairau is actually Nelson/Marlborough is it not?
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 11 March 21 09:17 GMT (UK)
Is David a connection?

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers?items_per_page=10&snippet=true&title=TC%2CGBARG%2CMOST%2CNEM%2CNENZC&query=Mclachlan&start_date=01-01-1860&end_date=31-12-1895
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: shanreagh on Thursday 11 March 21 10:44 GMT (UK)
....... Mothers name unknown said to be from Royal Stuart Clan. His father John a highland baird.. When John was little his mothers brothers came and took her home. Now he and his father came to NZ. ......   

Noting the word above 'baird'.

Is this meaning Baird, the surname?
or

A Highland laird? 
Laird”, a Scottish term, is a title reserved for those who own larger estates or pieces of land in Scotland....'

So a laird had a relationship with a woman of the Royal Stuart* Clan? 

Have you looked at the any Clan history?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Maclachlan

I would have thought that a Laird going to NZ in such circumstances would have figured in some historical accounts.  There is a branch of the clan here in NZ. 

Scotlands People has all sorts of records of even informal marriages, not much escaped the powers that be. 

* have you mentioned the clan with the spelling Stuart as part of the story......the more common spelling of the clan name is Stewart but there is a branch that kept the French spelling - Stuart.
These are the Stuarts of Bute

' Clan Stuart of Bute

'The chiefs of the Clan Stuart of Bute are descended from Sir John Stewart, illegitimate son of Robert Stewart who reigned as Robert II of Scotland by Moira Leitch (according to tradition)' Wiki

Also from Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Stuart_of_Bute

There may be some genealogical tables for this clan that you could find. 

On the basis that the 'Royal' is part of the tale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Stuart
the Royal house of Stewart....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Stuart#House_of_Stewart


Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: minniehaha on Thursday 11 March 21 19:37 GMT (UK)
The 1895 death is on Ancestry as

John Mc Lachlan
Death Date:   Jul-Aug-Sep 1895
Registration Place:   Wairau, Auckland, New Zealand
Folio Number:   1481


I think Wairau is actually Nelson/Marlborough is it not?

It is.  :)  However there is the Wairau Valley in Auckland, but I don't think that would have been a registration district back then. But I could be wrong.


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: shanreagh on Thursday 11 March 21 20:12 GMT (UK)
I have been searching for passenger lists on the Cresswell.  There are several sailings from Port Underwood in Marlborough but this is for a 'barque' Cresswell. Not sure if this would have been too small? 

The Cresswell seemed to operate throughout the 1850s early 1860s and brought quantities of goods from Britain for the shops if the for sale ads in PP are anything to go by. 

The is a Wairau in Marlborough - scene of the Wairau Affray and close to Port Underwood. A large area out of Blenheim. 

Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Thursday 11 March 21 20:22 GMT (UK)
The 1895 death is on Ancestry as

John Mc Lachlan
Death Date:   Jul-Aug-Sep 1895
Registration Place:   Wairau, Auckland, New Zealand
Folio Number:   1481


I think Wairau is actually Nelson/Marlborough is it not?

The link I gave at Reply #3 for Omaka Cemetery, is where he is. McLauchlan. That is what my resource tells me, but I can't see him there.  Perhaps no headstone??


Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: shanreagh on Thursday 11 March 21 20:24 GMT (UK)
Answered my own question re a barque. Also details of voyages. 
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Bre02Whit-t1-body-d2-d6-d11.html
1851 Gravesend to Wgtn then Dud
1852 London to AKL then NP
1853 London to NP
1655 London to NP then AKL
1856 London to Nelson
1858 London to Nelson
1859 London to Lyttelton then Nelson

So if the name of the ship is correct and the landing at Nelson is correct there are three instances of the Cresswell dropping passengers off in Nelson. In 1856 & 1858 as a direct passage and 1859 via Lyttelton.

Some passenger names
https://sites.rootsweb.com/~nzbound/cresswell.htm

More names
http://www.yesteryears.co.nz/shipping/passlists/cresswell.html
More
http://www.yesteryears.co.nz/shipping/passlists/cresswell.html

On this http://www.yesteryears.co.nz/shipping/passlists/cresswell.html going to NP in 1855
there is a D McDonald and Finlay McDonald.  Just found on a quick skim.  There do not seem to be very many fathers and child/ren.  A few mothers and children.   

Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 11 March 21 20:34 GMT (UK)
The 1895 death is on Ancestry as

John Mc Lachlan
Death Date:   Jul-Aug-Sep 1895
Registration Place:   Wairau, Auckland, New Zealand
Folio Number:   1481


I think Wairau is actually Nelson/Marlborough is it not?

The link I gave at Reply #3 for Omaka Cemetery, is where he is. McLauchlan. That is what my resource tells me.


Cheers
KHP

Yes. I was trying to link the 1895 death to that 1925 one in the hope he was the father.  In which case a death printout worth getting??
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: minniehaha on Thursday 11 March 21 20:34 GMT (UK)
Inr I think you might have to obtain the 1925 death printout for John junior. This should hopefully record his parentage.


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 11 March 21 20:36 GMT (UK)
Inr I think you might have to obtain the 1925 death printout for John junior. This should hopefully record his parentage.


Minniehaha.

Marriage would be better wouldn’t it?
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 11 March 21 20:39 GMT (UK)
Note:   Yes, expect New Zealand "place names" as given @ancestry.com. / and at other sites which rely on volunteers to transcribe data, to be incorrect occasionally.
Volunteers are not always based in, nor always familiar with the country whose records they are transcribing - and at times they rely on "guesswork" (or other means), to say, marry up a place name with a district.   
                                       :)






Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: minniehaha on Thursday 11 March 21 20:42 GMT (UK)
Inr I think you might have to obtain the 1925 death printout for John junior. This should hopefully record his parentage.


Minniehaha.

Marriage would be better wouldn’t it?

This took place in 1877 Mckha, so too early for parents details:

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/dataCollected/marriage


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 11 March 21 21:38 GMT (UK)

 Please note: This family have no relationship to mine: The story that I know. A child came out from Scotland when young used to wear a kilt His name was John. His father also John. He was born after an irregular Scots marriage. Mothers name unknown said to be from Royal Stuart Clan. His father John a highland baird.. When John was little his mothers brothers came and took her home  ....     

About 30 trees online > in the name of "John Scott McLACHLAN" - born 6 July 1851, Glasgow.

In some trees (I've not looked at all), =  "parents unknown".

Date of death of John Scott McLACHLAN is given as 1925 at Blenheim, Wairau

In one tree - his Mother's name is  stated at -- "Christina MacDONALD"

   ~   Lu

Edited to add additional details
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 11 March 21 22:01 GMT (UK)
Inr I think you might have to obtain the 1925 death printout for John junior. This should hopefully record his parentage.


Minniehaha.

Marriage would be better wouldn’t it?

This took place in 1877 Mckha, so too early for parents details:

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/dataCollected/marriage


Minniehaha.


Quite right. I was thinking of the 1875 birth act
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Friday 12 March 21 00:02 GMT (UK)
 Hi Thanks for those replies. The marriage does not show any parents names Colonist News Paper 1858: Feb 8th Cresswell Barque from london 20th Oct  John, Isabella, John and Elizabeth Mclachlan. These are buried in the Omaka Cemetery Blenheim. and dont know yet if thats the family . I will still try and focus on John snr.  Thanks lnr
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 12 March 21 00:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Thanks for those replies. The marriage does not show any parents names Colonist News Paper 1858:


Can you post link to this please ?      Can't seem to find it in that newspaper - nor other Nelson paper of the day ??

Afterthought   ???    Or  ... were you referring to the 1877 marriage of John McLACHLAN (the son) ??      ;)
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 12 March 21 00:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Thanks for those replies. The marriage does not show any parents names Colonist News Paper 1858: Feb 8th Cresswell Barque from london 20th Oct  John, Isabella, John and Elizabeth Mclachlan. These are buried in the Omaka Cemetery Blenheim. and dont know yet if thats the family . I will still try and focus on John snr.  Thanks lnr

.... or did you mean (re: 1858) that there was info for ship "Cresswell" and it's passengers ??

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NENZC18580210.2.3

 ???

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 12 March 21 00:42 GMT (UK)
Hi lnr

Earlier you mentioned John McLACHLAN marrying Evelyn HODGKINSON - plus you gave names of daughters.

This Evelyn McLACHLAN died in 1928 at Masterton - aged 72 years.

Evelyn McLACHLAN was still on 1928 Masterton Electoral* roll - residing at Lett Street.
[Her married daughter Frances and son-in-law Thomas BASSETT, were also at Lett Street.]
*  The entry for Evelyn shows her as "married"  ??     If that's her husband  John, > died 1925 - buried Omaka Cemetery > then  Evelyn would be "a widow".   
 --   ?  Did Evelyn move to Masterton to live with her daughter, after her husband died  ?? 

     ~  Lu

Edited to add highlight to some text.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 12 March 21 01:05 GMT (UK)
Feb 9th

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TC18580209.2.3?end_date=31-12-1860&items_per_page=10&query=Cresswell+isabella&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1858

Finally found it using as you see Isabella as the search.   Temperamental things.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 12 March 21 01:05 GMT (UK)
Daughter of John McLACHLAN :

Hi lnr

Just pointing out this marriage notice for daughter Frances in 1914.   
Notice says ... "daughter of Mrs E. McLACHLAN".    That sort of indicates that John McLACHLAN is deceased before 1914   ... or is simply "absent" from his family ???

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MEX19140801.2.12

    ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 12 March 21 01:12 GMT (UK)
Feb 9th

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TC18580209.2.3?end_date=31-12-1860&items_per_page=10&query=Cresswell+isabella&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1858

Finally found it using as you see Isabella as the search.   Temperamental things.

Top marks to ya, Mckha.   ;)     
The other "trick" with the "Mc"  'n  "Mac"  handles, is to search using  ... M' ... e.g.   M'Lachlan / M'Donald  / M'Mouse or whatever. 

     ~   Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 12 March 21 01:12 GMT (UK)
Births to a John and Isabella

1860/8161   McLachlan   David   Isabella   John
1862/10055   McLachlan   Thomas   Isabella   John


There are others starting in 1878,  seems too late?
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 12 March 21 01:15 GMT (UK)
An Isabella here for the right length of time, getting the pension in Nelson

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TC18991109.2.7?items_per_page=10&query=Isabella+mclachlan+&snippet=true&title=TC%2cGBARG%2cMOST%2cNEM%2cNENZC


Her death?

1908/4063   McLachlan   Isabella   74Y
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 12 March 21 01:19 GMT (UK)
So David McLachlan is the son of this Isabella anyway

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TC19080413.2.19.2?end_date=31-12-1908&items_per_page=10&query=+mclachlan+&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1908&title=TC%2cGBARG%2cMOST%2cNEM%2cNENZC
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 12 March 21 01:22 GMT (UK)
Isabella McLAUCHLAN - d. 1951 - buried Omaka (mentioned by lnr in earlier post).

... appears to be "Isabella McIntyre McLAUCHLAN - 88 years (bc 1863)  ???
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 12 March 21 01:25 GMT (UK)
David’s obit.  Parents were from Stirling

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NEM19300517.2.37?items_per_page=10&query=David+mclachlan+&snippet=true&title=TC%2cGBARG%2cMOST%2cNEM%2cNENZC
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 12 March 21 01:41 GMT (UK)
Births to a John and Isabella

1860/8161   McLachlan   David   Isabella   John
1862/10055   McLachlan   Thomas   Isabella   John


There are others starting in 1878,  seems too late?

It seems Nelson Martin McLachlan born 1878 is indeed a brother of David

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE19011148
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 12 March 21 01:53 GMT (UK)
This marriage is after the 1880 marriage act

1881/1880   Margaret   Gandell   David   McLachlan
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 12 March 21 02:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Thanks for those replies. The marriage does not show any parents names Colonist News Paper 1858: Feb 8th Cresswell Barque from london 20th Oct  John, Isabella, John and Elizabeth Mclachlan. These are buried in the Omaka Cemetery Blenheim. and dont know yet if thats the family . I will still try and focus on John snr.  Thanks lnr

Hi lnr

Not sure if you meant that "John / Isabella / John and Elizabeth McLACHLAN"  are buried at Omaka ???

This is the Isabella McLAUCHLAN who was buried in 1951 at Omaka.
Here is a link to her probate record - her attached Will names her brother and two sisters.
[Possibly the children of a Margaret and Alexander McLAUCHLAN  ??  ]
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22309622&digital=yes

Just adding this in case it helps you with the process of eliminating some of these McLACHLAN / McLAUCHLAN families.

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 12 March 21 02:26 GMT (UK)
McLAUCHLAN - family plot (covering both rows) - Omaka Cemetery, Blenheim :

Isabella - d. 1951
Margaret - d. 1953
Katherine SYMONS [nee McLAUCHLAN] - d. 1958
Margaret - d. 1903
Alexander - d. also 1903
Alexander Duncan - 1920
Donald Fulton - 1910

[Added for elimination purposes. ]
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Saturday 13 March 21 07:59 GMT (UK)
sorry i meant to reply Yes Evelyn was married to the son John and was then separated                               I think and was with her daughter. Thanks lnr
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: seaflowers on Wednesday 31 March 21 06:29 BST (UK)
Hi, just jumping into this thread here as John is my GG Grandfather. Interesting reading, thanks everyone 😊

In relation to the family McLauchlan from Marlborough, buried at Omaka, that Isabella was a spinster.

It is likely to be a spelling error that our John McLachlan was buried at Omaka under the name McLauchlan, as all other records (marriage, births of all children) point to McLachlan as the spelling of his surname.

I’ve been looking at the arrival of John, Isabella, John and Elizabeth McLachlan to Nelson on the Cresswell in February 1859….There is a John McLachlan on the NZ Jury lists for both 1860 and 1861 in Nelson – likely to be John snr?

https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/1839/images/32341_224133__0004-00264?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=nbL441&_phstart=successSource&pId=83960

https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/1839/images/32341_224133__0004-00274?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=nbL442&_phstart=successSource&pId=85082

Although there is no further mention of John that I can find after this date, he is linked through Isabella and David, as David’s parents are named as John & Isabella, and furthermore both Isabella and youngest son Nelson Martin are linked to David through the other documents already provided within this thread. (I’m just clarifying this here…bear with me).

So if the John & Isabella that arrived on the Cresswell in February 1859 are indeed this same couple, then they settled in Nelson, had three more children, but somewhere along the line John snr has disappeared. And what happened to the daughter Elizabeth?

Going back further…using a combination of Scotlands people records and references via Ancestry trees etc. the only “John & Isabella” I could find that fits would be John McLachlan and Isabella Henderson. However, they were married in 1837 had five children between moving across Strontian and then Tobermory, before settling in Gorbals, Glasgow, where they had two more children John b. 12/09/1851 and Elizabeth b. 12/03/1854. However, I have now discounted this John & Isabella as they both died in Hutchesontown, Glasgow, Scotland (in 1865 and 1870 respectively)…BUT, I cannot find them in the 1861 Census (which would properly discount them as being the couple that arrived via the Cresswell in Feb 1859).

Just to add a bit more...on John McLachlan Jnr's death (1925) printout it states he was in NZ for 70 years...but that may not be correct of course.

I’m going to keep working on this but any other info or suggestions would be most welcome thanks!
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Wednesday 31 March 21 10:37 BST (UK)

In relation to the family McLauchlan from Marlborough, buried at Omaka, that Isabella was a spinster.


Yes, Isabella McLAUCHLAN (spinster) buried 1951 Omaka ... further information was added at Replies #35 and 36 in order to eliminate this lady. 

    ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 31 March 21 10:55 BST (UK)
A whole lot of earlier replies discuss this death

1895/4802   McLachlan   John   69Y

Have you ruled that out?

We were able to rule out the others I think.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Thursday 08 April 21 00:54 BST (UK)
hi This would make him born abt 1826 Without getting a death cert not sure. Wont be doing this as researching for someone alse Thanks lnr
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Tuesday 13 April 21 03:54 BST (UK)
 I now have a death cert for John Mclachlan snr. He died 3rd july 1895 Blenheim and is buried in the omaka cemetry he was aged 69.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 13 April 21 04:05 BST (UK)
Is this the man you have been searching for? If so, exactly what other details are on this certificate/printout?


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Monday 19 April 21 23:34 BST (UK)
 I am now looking for Johns daughter Elizabet Millar McLachlan.  It was found that John had  married Isabella POLLOCK at Duniplace Stirling 1855 They had a daughter Elizabeth Millar Mclachlan born 13 July 1857 St Ninians Stirling Then they came to nz on the Cresswell 1858 to Nelson. They then had David and Thomas. according to marriages Elizabeth married  a Henry SCOTT. I have found one daughtr for them Isabella Millar SCOTT, Wellington. 1887. Then found elizabeth 1896 Molesworth  st Wellington and no Henry then 1919 Kimbolton Rd Feilding widow In police Gazetts A Henry Alexander Scott 1892.1894 as deserting his wife not sure if him or not. Cant find any of them after that. Also looking for Thomas Mclachlan born abt 1866 Nz.Thanks lnr         
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 20 April 21 02:37 BST (UK)
Enter

Elizabeth Millar Scott.
Elizabeth Miller Scott
Henry Alexander Scott

Into paperspast for an interesting picture.


This from 1900

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WH19000502.2.14?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=Elizabeth+Miller+scott&snippet=true
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 02:41 BST (UK)
I am now looking for Johns daughter Elizabet Millar McLachlan.  ... according to marriages Elizabeth married  a Henry SCOTT. I have found one daughtr for them Isabella Millar SCOTT, Wellington. 1887.

.... Then found elizabeth 1896 Molesworth  st Wellington and no Henry then 1919 Kimbolton Rd Feilding widow In police Gazetts A Henry Alexander Scott 1892.1894 as deserting his wife not sure if him or not.       

Hi lnr

First found this birth.

1893 - SCOTT - Maud May Rowena
Parents :    Elizabeth Nellie*  and Henry Alexander


Birth was registered at Wellington
*  "Nellie" (second name) of mother I thought might, at a pinch, be meant as "Millar"  ;D  as no marriage found for a Henry Alexander Scott with wife Elizabeth.  Also could see no further births with mother named as "Elizabeth Nellie".

This babe died at age 6 weeks.    Found her burial at Bolton Street Cemetery, Wellington.

Also at Bolton Street Cemetery, and in the same plot was a Henry Alexander SCOTT - buried 20 April 1889.    Death index showed he was aged 6 months.   

Birth index revealed >

1889 - SCOTT - Henry Alexander
Parents :   Elizabenth* Miller   and   Henry Alexander


That's all the info I have at present ... will add cemetery links for Bolton Street next post.

      ~  Lu


   





Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 02:52 BST (UK)
Actually, when I said I didn't have any more info at present, that wasn't strictly true  ;D.

Was working to find more details for a burial I found in Wanganui.

McKha, your helpful post about Elizabeth Miller SCOTT, has now I think, "sealed the deal" on the Wanganui burial.

Elizabeth Miller STEVENS - 77 years - Residence:  Jubilee Home - widow - buried 21 November 1932.
Aramoho Cemetery - Wanganui. 


I'll post the link for that in a following post.

     ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 03:17 BST (UK)
Sorry, will add other details as soon as I can.     
Having problems with posting at the moment - screen freeze and error notices.   Gremlins aagh !!!
   ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 03:27 BST (UK)
Link - Bolton Street Cemetery, Wellington >

https://boltoncemetery.org.nz/burial-list/search/4/?q=SCOTT&years
SCOTT - Maud May -- on this page.

Go back to page 3 for SCOTT -Henry Alexander.

I didn't see any birth or death notices for these children - but you might like to have a closer look.

      ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 05:05 BST (UK)
Burial for Elizabeth Millar STEVENS :

https://wdc.whanganui.govt.nz/Cemeteries/Search.aspx

   ~  Lu

Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 05:22 BST (UK)
Haven't been able to find a second marriage for Elizabeth Millar / Miller (formerly SCOTT, nee McLACHLAN) :

I'm guessing the marriage spoken of in the article dated 1900, was an informal "marriage" ?

Elizabeth Miller STEVENS appears on only one electoral roll with someone who might be her "husband" ???

1914 - Wanganui Roll

STEVENS - Elizabeth Miller - married
STEVENS - George - gardener     ... both residing at Taylorville.


In 1919 she is also at Taylorville - but there is no George STEVENS.

In 1928, she on the Rangitikei roll and living at Putiki - widow.

A George STEVENS died in October 1923 aged 80 years - occupation gardener.
  He is buried at Aramoho Cemetery, Wanganui, also, but in a plot seemingly some distance away from Elizabeth.

Cemetery record for George STEVENS >
https://wdc.whanganui.govt.nz/Cemeteries/Search.aspx

       ~  Lu


Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 05:46 BST (UK)

Then found elizabeth 1896 Molesworth  st Wellington and no Henry then 1919 Kimbolton Rd Feilding widow       

Hi lnr

Election year 1919 - rolls.   Remembered you had earlier said you had Elizabeth in 1919 at Feilding.

That wouldn't (I think), preclude her from also being on the 1919 Wanganui roll and living at Taylorville ... because she is basically using a different identity in being STEVENS.

   ~  Lu

Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 09:19 BST (UK)

It was found that John had  married Isabella POLLOCK at Duniplace Stirling 1855 They had a daughter Elizabeth Millar Mclachlan born 13 July 1857 St Ninians Stirling
They then had David and Thomas.

 Also looking for Thomas Mclachlan born abt 1866 Nz.Thanks lnr       

Hi lnr

The Thomas McLACHLAN born NZ abt 1866 was son of a Jessie and John.

A Thomas McLACHLAN was born in 1862 to an Isabella an John. ... is that the one you are looking for ???

   ~   Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 09:45 BST (UK)
Another question lnr   ;D

If this is the Thomas McLACHLAN born 1862, and if he's the son of the John McLACHLAN died 1925 for whom you have the death record, does that death record show that the son Thomas is living ??
[Thomas won't be named on death record, but his age will be on record if he was alive in 1925.]

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 20 April 21 09:51 BST (UK)
The following Thomas McLACHLAN - born about 1863, can be ruled out.

[Thomas McLACHLAN - died 9 January 1889 - aged 26 years (bc 1863).  Farmer of Maungatua, West Taieri, Otago.   (Will) - left all his estate to his father James McLACHLAN.   Son of James and Mary McLACHLAN.  ]

    ~  Lu

Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Tuesday 20 April 21 23:56 BST (UK)
 Hi Thanks for all your work Elizabeth had quite a time of it according to the Police Gazettes I have found a marriage 1915 for an Elizabeth SMITH to a Sydney STEVENS At the moment havnt access to the death cert to see the ages but I know John the eldest child wasnt there and my mistake thomas was  born1862. Thanks lnr
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Wednesday 21 April 21 00:11 BST (UK)
Cheers lnr
... yes, just when you can view the death certificate, please let us know if Thomas (1862) was around in 1925.

     ~  Lu

Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Wednesday 21 April 21 01:41 BST (UK)

 Hi Thanks for all your work Elizabeth had quite a time of it according to the Police Gazettes I have found a marriage 1915 for an Elizabeth SMITH to a Sydney STEVENS

Hi lnr

Why have you added this 1915 Elizabeth SMITH / Sydney STEVENS marriage to the mix without checking further who they were ???
 
[ This couple went on to have children in 1916 and later.   They lived in Christchurch then worked in  Wellington up until at least 1950. ]
 
  Q  :    Does that mean that you're discounting  the Elizabeth Miller STEVENS aged 77, who died at Wanganui, 1932.  ???

If you look earlier in thread, you'll see the link given by McKha re: "Ellizabeth Miller SCOTT alias SMITH.     The year of that article is 1900.    She says .... that she's 45 years of age (so born circa 1855) ... that she married her 2nd husband about 2 years ago (circa 1898)  ... and when she called at shop asking for a job, gave her name as Mrs STEVENSON.

When the article was posted here and I saw the surname STEVENSON, I was able to link it to some earlier info I'd found re: death at Wanganui of an "Elizabeth Miller STEVENS" who was roughly the same age as and residing in the same area as, Elizabeth Miller SCOTT alias SMITH.

Would just like to know why you've added the 1915 marriage here ???

    ~  Lu


Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Wednesday 21 April 21 06:16 BST (UK)
 Hi this was the only Elisabeth smith that married a Stevens I cannot find any  to a George Stevens under Mclachlan, Scott or smith thanks lnr
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Wednesday 21 April 21 06:51 BST (UK)
Hi lnr

It was clarified earlier on here that the 2nd husband mentioned by Elizabeth Miller SCOTT alias SMITH, in 1900, was most likely to have been "a common-law / de facto husband".    At that time she did not give the name of this "husband", all that was reported in the article was that she had told a shopkeeper that her name was Mrs. STEVENSON.   ("STEVENSON"  and  "STEVENS" sound very similar so perhaps there was an error in the article.??? )

What I'm trying to convey to you is that this Elizabeth Miller SCOTT (alias SMITH) is very possibly the same woman found on electoral rolls in and near Wanganui / using at times the surnames SCOTT and STEVENS.   And very probably she is the dead woman at Wanganui in 1932.
On one electoral roll, living at or near Wanganui, this Elizabeth Miller STEVENS is at same address as a gardener named George STEVENS.   That does not mean that she was married to him.   Marriage indexes were checked before posting info on here.     

      ~  Lu


Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Wednesday 21 April 21 23:56 BST (UK)
 Hi Lu Thanks for that it is always very much appreciatted what you do. lnr
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: seaflowers on Thursday 22 April 21 22:06 BST (UK)

Of note...inquest into death of Alexander Henry Scott

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZMAIL18960213.2.135.5
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: seaflowers on Thursday 22 April 21 22:15 BST (UK)
Cheers lnr
... yes, just when you can view the death certificate, please let us know if Thomas (1862) was around in 1925.

     ~  Lu
Hi Lu,

This John that died in 1925 was John junior...half brother to Thomas...just so you know :)
John senior that died in 1895 was father to both.

Thanks, Kate
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 22 April 21 23:54 BST (UK)

Of note...inquest into death of Alexander Henry Scott

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZMAIL18960213.2.135.5

Hi

The drowned man appears to be "Alexander Henry Scott MAIN"  ... also referred to later in the article as "Mr MAIN."

However on checking the NZ Death index, he is listed as "Alexander Henry SCOTT - 42 years - died on 29 January 1896 (has same death date as the Mr MAIN).

But ... here is his funeral notice >


https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18960205.2.48.5

... Alexander Henry Scott MAIN

[There were also two In Memoriam notices (surname MAIN) placed in 1897 and 1898 ... as well as an earlier death notice which said he was from Arbroath, Scotland. ]

   ~  Lu

Edited to correct spelling.
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 23 April 21 00:08 BST (UK)

I now have a death cert for John Mclachlan snr. He died 3rd july 1895 Blenheim and is buried in the omaka cemetry he was aged 69.

Cheers lnr
... yes, just when you can view the death certificate, please let us know if Thomas (1862) was around in 1925.   Sorry, should have read 1895.

     ~  Lu
Hi Lu,

This John that died in 1925 was John junior...half brother to Thomas...just so you know :)
John senior that died in 1895 was father to both.

Thanks, Kate

Thanks Kate ... yes the year should have been 1895 - John senior's death certificate.     {Long and involved thread ... difficult to remember exactly who's who.)  ;D

      ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: seaflowers on Friday 23 April 21 03:32 BST (UK)
Totally understand that Lu...it can get very confusing!  ;)

To go back to Alexander Henry Scott MAIN...thanks for the info.  After looking at it further I'm wondering if in fact this was not Elizabeth Millar Scott's husband...

Alexander Henry Scott MAIN married Mary O'Connell in 1878 according to BDM. Had one child, John Alexander, in 1878, that I can find.

So I wonder if this Henry Alexander SCOTT that died in 1919 age 65 was in fact the right one...

Death notice https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WDT19190712.2.17.3
Funeral notice  https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WAG19190714.2.2.3

Your thoughts?
Kate
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Friday 23 April 21 05:10 BST (UK)
hi Kate Do you have the death cert for John senior to see what ages his children were at his death thanks lnr
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: lnr on Friday 23 April 21 05:52 BST (UK)
 If you have a look at the Police gazettes through ancestry  up to 1894  a Henry Alexander scott is there for wife desertion on various accounts and different years 1893 being unable to provide for his wife and infant, so was this Isabella Millar Scott that was born 1889? according to one of these reports 1893 he was 39 which makes his birth abt 1854 the same as the 1919 Death thanks lnr
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: seaflowers on Friday 23 April 21 06:01 BST (UK)
hi Kate Do you have the death cert for John senior to see what ages his children were at his death thanks lnr

Yes, death cert for John senior in 1895 states 2 sons ages 33 years and 35 years, 1 daughter age 38 years. (note it does not include his estranged eldest son John here)

I also have his wife Isabella death cert in 1908 which states 3 sons, ages 48, 45 and 29, and 1 daughter aged 51. The younger son, aged 29...not on John's death cert and I have my suspicions about whether he was actually John's son, or even Isabella's for that matter...but that's another matter.

Thanks,
Kate
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 23 April 21 20:40 BST (UK)
Cheers Kate and lnr ... will take another look at records and see what can be found.

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 24 April 21 04:46 BST (UK)

To go back to Alexander Henry Scott MAIN...thanks for the info.  After looking at it further I'm wondering if in fact this was not Elizabeth Millar Scott's husband...


Hi seaflowers

Well I didn't ever suggest for one moment, that it was her husband.   It was you who gave the link to the 1896 death of Alexander Henry Scott MAIN -not me !

I was always quite certain that it was the wrong person, hence digging deeper for more info to set the record straight.   

And some further information >

Death notice :  Alexander MAIN
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP18960201.2.10

Alexander MAIN -  was a Mechanical engineer and Secretary of the Amalgamated Society of Engineers ...
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/PBH18960130.2.18

All that information is freely available on the PapersPast website where your link also came from.

Not at all sure why you would connect this man with Elizabeth Millar SCOTT ... whose husband is given on the NZ marriage Index as simply, Henry SCOTT.

   ~  Lu



Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: seaflowers on Saturday 24 April 21 22:25 BST (UK)
Hi Lu,
My apologies...I was not meaning to imply that you had suggested he was her husband...I guess like you I was just digging deeper to discount him.
Kate
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: kiwihalfpint on Saturday 24 April 21 23:17 BST (UK)
So many pages of this subject, just wonder if a recap of what has been found so far, probably would make it a little easier for future searchers to see what is what.   Just a suggestion.

No offence taken if it isn't taken up, but we have done it before. :D


Cheers
KHP
Title: Re: john Mclachlan/mclauchlan
Post by: huffamab on Sunday 19 February 23 07:12 GMT (UK)
So many pages of this subject, just wonder if a recap of what has been found so far, probably would make it a little easier for future searchers to see what is what.   Just a suggestion.

No offence taken if it isn't taken up, but we have done it before. :D


Cheers
KHP


Firstly hi, i am a descendent of this Mclachlan family.

John jnr aka John Scott is my 3rd great grandfather.
I will tell you what I know from my own research and from stories from my Great Aunt, and also from what you all have amazingly put together.

As you know John snr married above his station which his father ( The highland Baird ) and the girls father both forbade.
At some point during the first 4 years of John Jnr’s life, his mother was taken back home by her brothers.
John snr moved on pretty quickly and married Isabella Pollock at Duniplace, Sterling, March 9th 1855.

John snr and Isabella had their first child together Elizabeth Miller at St Ninians, in Sterling, on July 13th 1857.

My great Aunt was told that John snr came to New Zealand as a remittance man, which could be plausible given that the family was bitter about the shame he brought on the family by marrying johns jnrs mother. ( I couldn’t find anything that confirms he was a remittance man. )

Anyway it is said that the bitterness in the family was what made John Snr emigrate here with his new wife and 2 children on the Cresswell, it arrived in Nelson in October 1859, John jnr was 8 and Elizabeth was 2.

John Snr never had contact with the family in Scotland ever again, all
I know is that John snrs father was also called John. First born sons were named after their fathers which makes it difficult to find family. An old Celtic tradition was to give first born sons the paternal grandmothers maiden name for their middle name. Which is where i think Scott comes from.
First born daughters were given the maiden name of the maternal grandmother as a middle name, which is why Elizabeth’s middle name is Miller.

John Snr and Isabella had 3 more children here, all sons.

David ( 1860 - 1930 )
Thomas ( 1862 - n/a )
Nelson Martin ( 1878 - 1968 )

Not much is known about Elizabeth, David, Thomas or Nelson - not through my side of the family, I hadn’t heard of them until I started researching my family tree.

There is a letter from my Great grandmother Sheila to my great Uncle Robin in 1996 that states: John Snr was a right harridan who resented John Jnr and used to tie him up and whip him as a child. He was very bitter and sore about his father and stepmother and I don’t think he had much to do with them or his siblings in his adult life.

John jnr married my 3rd great grandmother Evelyn ( Eveline at birth, birth not registered ) Hodgkinson, at Brightwater, October 10th 1876.

At some Point after the births of their first 2 daughters they moved to Palmerston North and had my great great grandmother Frances Evelyn Bassett. ( Mclachlan )
In the letter from 1996 from my great grandmother Sheila, she says that John Jnr was said to be very well read and knowledgeable and taught his youngest daughter to read good books.

John Jnr died in Masterton May 23rd 1925, at the home of his Eldest daughter Alice Osgood.
And has a headstone in Archer st Cemetry, but my great grandmother thought he may be buried in Blenheim.

His wife Frances died in Masteton hospital November 27th 1928, after a long and painful illness. It appears as though she may of been living with her youngest daughter Frances.

As for David he married Margaret Gandell and had 7 daughters. Was well known in the Beachville community and is buried in Wakapuaka cemetery with his wife.

Nelson married Emma Bertha Fowler.
He was a farmer before enlisting in the Army In WW1.
He made it back home and lived a long life, he passed away November 4th, 1968 and is buried in Marsden cemetery, Nelson.

As for Thomas and Elizabeth I don’t know what happened with them, although from the research I’ve seen in this thread Elizabeth doesn’t sound like she was known for anything good.