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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Spirited on Friday 12 March 21 07:12 GMT (UK)
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Duncan Ross
Born 1875 in Camberwell, Surrey, England???
Married Fanny Waldron 29 May 1901 in Fremantle, Western Australia.
Had 3 children, Irene, Edward William and Sydney John.
Died 15 February 1950.
I am looking for information on parents, how he came to Western Australia.
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The marriage certificate has been posted online: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/161656969/person/352110034059/media/e59c82d5-82b1-4491-a4ba-ab898cad9dca
Father Charles, a "Serg in army" mother Constance ? Anderson? Atkinson?
Why do you think Duncan was born in Camberwell?
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That is what I was told by family.
That he was born in Camberwell, Surrey in 1875 and that his mother Constance died in Camberwell, Surrey 1876.
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To anyone trying to help :)
We have suggested that Spirited posts here to try and establish when Duncan Ross arrived in Australia prior to his 1901 marriage. We have found no evidence that he was born anywhere in England.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=845608.
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You need to see some documentation.
Birth certificate for......... Irene, Edward William and Sydney John....will record birthplace of mother and father.
Duncan ROSS died 15 February 1950.....this death certificate will record birthplace.
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:)
According to Australiapost's online postcodes there's Camberwell in Victoria as well as the one I know of, (St Clements Anglican) in the Hunter, NSW. https://www.visitnsw.com/destinations/hunter/hunter-valley/singleton/destination-information/camberwell
https://auspost.com.au/postcode/camberwell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camberwell,_Victoria
Perhaps he was born in Camberwell, in Vic or NSW ...
Agree with wivenhoe, you need to see some documentation :)
JM
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Well, on the certificate of marriage-
Is it just me or does the place for the maiden surname for the mother of Duncan ROSS actually say (unknown)
I do not see Atkinson or another surname like it.
Sue
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I agree with Sue.
JM
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Attaching a snip.
Notice that the pre-printed heading for Column 7 has been altered by the clergy. It was 'Place and Country of Birth', but those words have been struck through and replaced by "Present Residence".
All handwriting on front and reverse is in the one hand.
JM
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I am not familiar with the Rate Books for local government authorities in Victoria, but I can see that Camberwell and Waverley Rate Book for the Boroondara Shire, has an assessment as at 21 November, 1898 :
No. on the Rate. : 126
Surname of Person Rated. : Ross
Christian Names of Person Rated. : Duncan
Trade or Occupation. : Railway Service
Name of Owner of Rateable Property. : Sun Building Society
Description and Situation of Rateable Property. : B House, Avenue Road
No. of Allotment. : pt 17
Perhaps a co-incidence. I have not looked for this chap in other years.
JM
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An on-line tree has his parents as Charles Harry Marsland ROSS and Mary Ann Constance ATKINSON.
There is definitely a death registered in Camberwell (UK) (FreeBMD)
Sep qr 1876 ROSS Constance Mary A 41 Camberwell Vol 1d, p474
This couple are together in census entries in 1871. I am not seeing a registration of a birth in the London area for a Duncan ROSS, nor can I see Charles ROSS in 1881, but in 1891 there is a census entry for Charles Harry Marsland ROSS with a son Charles ROSS, senic (sic) artist, b 1875 Clapham
So the question - is Duncan ROSS the same person as Charles ROSS - seems doubtful as Charles Harry Marsland ROSS consistently gives his occupation as author, so it seems unlikely that by 1901 he is in the army.
However the family story told to Spirited is partly correct - there IS a couple who produced a son in 1875 and the wife died in Camberwell Uk in 1876 but are they parents of Duncan - or has the family believed what's on the on-line tree.
Judith
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Charles Harry Marsland ROSS (see above) dies in 1896, death registered in Wandsworth, so he is definitely not in the army at the time of Duncan and Fanny's marriage! However IF he is Duncan's father perhaps his death is the catalyst for moving to Australia ???
Judith
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Sorry - apologies.
I should have read the link provided by Rosie99
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=845608.
which shows that Duncan and Charles are not the same person!
Re: Duncan Ross
« Reply #8 on: Monday 08 March 21 18:01 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Quote from: QueenoftheWest on Monday 08 March 21 17:46 GMT (UK)
Here is the same Charles H Ross, widow, living with his son, Charles Ross (b. 1875) in 1891.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QZZS-13Z
Queenie :)
That Charles (jnr) marries Emily Grinham in 1898 Battersea occ Actor - Father Journalist deceased
In 1901 he is a Journalist / Actor
RG13/460
Folio 48
Page 34
ADDED Still in Surrey 1911
Judith
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Charles Henry Marsland ROSS and Constance MaryAnn ATKINSON were married in 1861 at St Martin in the fields, Westminster.
In the 1861 census they are together in Cranbourne Court, St Martins, Westminster. His occupation is "clerk".
Could this be Charles in the 1856 London PO directory?
Perhaps he did clerical work for the admiralty at one time, and this became embellished on his son's marriage to "in the army". ??
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The query in this topic is about the parents of Duncan ROSS and his origins.
I have not come up with anything useful, though it is clear from some research that the marriage to Fanny WALDRON was of short duration and news items suggest Duncan was in trouble from time to time.
Slygrogging 1911
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/26347033
1929 Duncan in trouble
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/208716724
However, Perhaps those stories are for another day as his later life is not relevant to the query just now.
I would say though that Fanny's father , Captain John WALDRON was a well credentialed ship's master born in Dorset.
I think if Duncan ROSS had not spoken with a British accent at the 1901 marriage, Captain WALDRON would not have been fooled by a story of birth in Britain.
I would therefore suggest that ROSS was not Australian born, but British.
Sue
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Not enough information to even guess if this has anything to do with this Duncan ROSS
from
Western Australia, Australia, Crew and Passenger Lists, 1852-1930
Shipping list dated 28 January 1899.
Duncan Ross arr Fremantle from Adelaide per SS Paroo, travelling steerage, There is another name alongside his which definitely has surname ROSS, forename might be 'Dan' or "Danl"
Judith
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There is no need to look again for information on Charles Harry Marsland & Constance Atkinson in England as it has already been covered on the other post. I suggested OP post on here for some Australia help. ;D
It certainly looks to me from earlier posts on here as though some birth certificates for Duncans children and/or his death certificate need purchasing
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Hi Judith,
the information you have provided sounds familiar. I will check into it.
Thanks
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Spirited, you need to read my Reply #12 which quotes other research that shows that Charles ROSS born 1875 with parents Charles Henry Marsland ROSS and Constance Mary Ann ATKINSON is NOT your Duncan ROSS as Charles ROSS is still living in London with his wife Emily in 1901 and 1911. He married Emily GRINHAM in 1898 Battersea occ Actor - Father Charles Harry ROSS, Journalist, deceased so he could not be Duncan ROSS marrying in WA in 1901.
You say that family have given you the information about his parents. How did they get that information?
Judith
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Hi Judith,
the information you have provided sounds familiar. I will check into it.
Thanks
Spirited, you need to read my Reply #12 which quotes other research that shows that Charles ROSS born 1875 with parents Charles Henry Marsland ROSS and Constance Mary Ann ATKINSON is NOT your Duncan ROSS as Charles ROSS is still living in London with his wife Emily in 1901 and 1911. He married Emily GRINHAM in 1898 Battersea occ Actor - Father Charles Harry ROSS, Journalist, deceased so he could not be Duncan ROSS marrying in WA in 1901.
You say that family have given you the information about his parents. How did they get that information?
Judith
This information was provided on 8th March on your other thread and that Charles was discounted.
I mentioned that post on reply 3
As has been suggested on this thread some Australian birth / death certificates need purchasing to see what information they hold before we spend any more time speculating on his parents :)
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Oh my - huge apologies to rosie99 - I should have acknowledged that it was her research that shows that Charles ROSS, son of Charles and Constance, is in London in 1899, 1901 and 1911, and thus cannot be Duncan ROSS marrying in WA in 1901.
Judith
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No need for apologies Judith, I was concerned that Spirited had not discounted this person. The other post was getting lengthy and covered Charles & Constance who did not appear to have any children and a young Charles who was a 'suspect for Duncan' but disproved as still in England 1901.
It is always a pain when these topics spread over 2 countries but hopefully Spirited will solve it by getting a certificate or two and letting us know what they say. ;D.
Rosie
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:)
Here is the live link to Western Australia’s online index for BDM. You can use the order button option there to arrange to purchase copy of the document/s.
https://bdm.justice.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
On the following link you can see a summary of what to expect to see recorded on various historic bdm certificates for each of the eight jurisdictions in Australia. http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
Western Australia births for Duncan’s children should include details about his name, his occupation, his age, his birthplace and previous children of his marriage with Fanny. So may I suggest if you were to consider purchasing one birth certificate - (cost around $35 Australian) please consider this one:
Edward William ROSS, father as Duncan (ROSS) and mother as Fanny WALDRON, baby born Fremantle, birth registered in 1904, and Registration no. 2377.
Here is the live link to RChat’s Australian Resources board https://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/
And here is the live link to the sub-board covering Western Australia
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369921.0
JM