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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: frederickay on Saturday 13 March 21 05:55 GMT (UK)

Title: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: frederickay on Saturday 13 March 21 05:55 GMT (UK)
Hello , I have just discovered that one of my Jutsum family John Thomas Jutsum b. 1802  of Devon via London was transported from London in 1829 to Van Dieman land as Tasmania was known .He stole a milk jug ( debatable as he was to inherit three properties in 1833 on the death of his aunt ) . He was married in London to Ann Fulcher ( she went on to have three children with his brother ) and without her death he married Maria Barker ( also a transportee)  in 1837/39 . He was transported on the Surrey .
I know nothing about Australian convict transportees and would like any help to find out what happened to him , Did he die a young man in Australia , did he have  children in Australia . did he become a free man , did he go back to England. Any help pointing me at sites which deal with these people would be fantastic , thanks Fred .m
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: cupoflife on Saturday 13 March 21 06:11 GMT (UK)
Some records here https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/search/results?qu=John&qu=Jutsum
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: cupoflife on Saturday 13 March 21 06:46 GMT (UK)
Launceston Advertiser 8July1841 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/84753326 (3rd column 2nd last notice)
CAUTION to the Public against Trusting my Wife, Maria Jutsum, better known by the name of Maria Barker, she leaving me without any provocation, I will not be answerable for debts that she may contract,
JOHN JUTSUM,
Painter, Glazier, and Paper Hanger, George-St.
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: frederickay on Saturday 13 March 21 06:55 GMT (UK)
Oh my , this is all very interesting because I have seen that Ann Jutsum nee Fulcher his wife that went on eventually to marry his brother inherited his funds on his “ death” earlier than that . How interesting . Would it be possibile there are two John Jutsum . One John Thomas Jutsum and one just John Jutsum transported to Van Dieman land , I am going to check my dates exactly and confirm with you all . That makes very interesting and confusing reading ,,, ty Fred .
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 13 March 21 06:57 GMT (UK)
Some Tasmanian newspaper items.
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 13 March 21 07:00 GMT (UK)
Conflicting dates for his death.
I think there must be a clerical mistake with the year of his death.
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: cupoflife on Saturday 13 March 21 07:15 GMT (UK)
1824 Classified Advertising.
17Dec1824 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1090437 (last column)
Same 24Dec1824 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1090451 (last column)
John Jutsum leaving the Colony on the Denmark Hill, requests Claims to be presented.
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: frederickay on Saturday 13 March 21 07:28 GMT (UK)
Hi from my copy of the  family will which specifies my William Cook Jutsum being the father of my( supposed ) John Thomas Jutsum  he was born in 1802 ,married Ann Fulcher and was  sent to Tasmania on the Surrey  in 1829 . BUT ... this second John Jutsum in 1824 could account for the different dates of marriages and deaths of the John Jutsums if it is possible that he returned to Australia at a later date . Mine did seem a fairly straight forward line I thought but now I am getting very confused . One of the questions is if Ann Fulcher inherited that small sum in 1831/2 on his “ death “ why did she wait until the Oct 1/4  in 1841 to marry the brother , I think I need pen and paper and do a time line ,thanks from a very confused Fred .
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 13 March 21 07:35 GMT (UK)
The snip i posted was the probate calendar 1858. I think his death has been copied incorrectly,  or misread, and perhaps the correct death was in 1852. The 5 confused for a 3.
However i have not found a death yet in Australia.
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: frederickay on Saturday 13 March 21 07:44 GMT (UK)
Thank you Neale . If we take out the odd death ( 1831 ) my very logical husband said the time line with the two John Jutsum is  possibile if the same John Jutsum went to Australia as a very you g man returning to England as the article says in 1824 . He then marries 1827 ,gets into trouble and is transported to Australia in 1829 . I will keep looking , thanks for any help . Fred .
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 13 March 21 09:01 GMT (UK)
I have no doubt that we are looking at one many - the same man. The thing consistent on all documentation ( convict indent, his son’s marriage record, probate and newspaper items), is his occupation as “painter and glazier”.
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: cupoflife on Saturday 13 March 21 09:57 GMT (UK)
Is this the same chap?  The others named arrive with him on the Surrey (2) 1829
Launceston Advertiser 7April1836 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/84751224 (2nd column lower half. His name is toward the bottom of the list)
March 29, 1836.— The periods for which the undermentioned persons were transported, expiring at the date placed after their respective names, certificates of their freedom may be obtained then, or at any subsequent period, upon application at the Muster Master's Office, Hobart Town, or at that of a police magistrate in the interior : —
........

Surry, 2.— John Jutson, 9th April; Thomas Murray, 4th do.; Joseph Wood, 1st do. ; John Smith, 28th do.

The Cornwall Chronicle 16thApril1836 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65952049
CERTIFICATES OF FREEDOM
....

John Jutson, Surry, 9th ditto; Thomas Murray, ditto, 4th ditto ; Joseph Wood, ditto, 1st ditto ; John
Smith, ditto, 28th ditto;
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: matthewj64 on Saturday 13 March 21 18:14 GMT (UK)
His 1829 convict conduct record includes in the red writing 'once for housebreaking sentenced 7 years served it at the Retribution'
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON31-1-23$init=CON31-1-23 (https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON31-1-23$init=CON31-1-23) (image 169)

Records for the Retribution hulk has John Judson aged 13y sentenced for felony Middlesex 21 May 1817, transported 2 April 1821.

Old Bailey trial page
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18170521-33-defend286&div=t18170521-33#highlight

Convict records for John Judson to VDL per Countess of Harcourt 1821
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qep/

Conduct record includes 'Hulk report, sent at own request' and 'Stated M[other] at Chelsea'

John Judson 1824 departure on the Denmark Hill (as found by cupoflife)
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qeq/

M

Add: His 1829 Justitia hulk entry has his name as Jutsom alias Judson




Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: frederickay on Saturday 13 March 21 19:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Matthew , wonderful info , I am starting to trawl through it now . The timeline is possibile that the earlier John Judson / Jutsum could be mine transported in 1829 . The original only being 13 the first time round . Can you tell me what “ make a claim “ means . Were convicts allowed to return to England ? You have sent me a note about information being sent to the mother in Chelsea . My Jutsum family were from Chelsea . Also for many generations they were plasterers , glaziers and painters . It all seems possible that the one John Judson / Jutsum was transported twice ,,,,,,, But how does that account for the probate being sent to Ann Fulcher in 1831 when Joh. Jutsum is posting articles about his second wife in 1841 . Out of interest .. his brother went on to marry the daughter of the Adc to the King of Hanover and she was the grandaughter of the Marquis Don Carlos Martinez de Irujo . All families must have a black sheep I guess , thanks for your help , Fred .
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 13 March 21 20:18 GMT (UK)
But how does that account for the probate being sent to Ann Fulcher in 1831
Can you explain more where you get this information from.
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: frederickay on Saturday 13 March 21 20:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Neale , sorry as you wrote the probate is dated 1858 but the wording is that John Jutsum died on or around Nov , 1832 . We know that's not true from the newspaper reports . I am trying to see the convict report which was sent to John Judson mother in Chelsea . It interests me because it may name the parents .Our John Jutsum was born to William Cook Jutsum and Mary Cheeseman Jutsum in 1802 .  I do NOT have John Jutsum/Judson baptism but do have him named in a will pertaining to this family 1806 and do have him on his sons marriage cert . I will check that again for date because as I recall it does not say father deceased . Amongst all this skulduggery over a silver cream jug he and his wife appear to have committed bigamy to add to the scandal , thanks for your interest . Fred
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: majm on Saturday 13 March 21 20:39 GMT (UK)
May I add to the confusion...

Some poorly transcribed indexes MAY mis-read the handwriting and consequently come up with SUTTON.  If so, I think John JUDSUM had 7 convictions and was twice transported.

Fred, many threads on RChat explain that the marriages effectively ended when the sentence of the English court was for seven years or more  transportation beyond the seas.  So that effectively made either party free to marry.  A woman with children, but no husband present was often referred to as a widow in that era. 

JM.
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 13 March 21 20:41 GMT (UK)
In reply 8, I explain what I think has happened in error to his date of death.

This is the convict sheet that mentions his mother.
 
Convict records for John Judson to VDL per Countess of Harcourt 1821
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qep/

Conduct record includes 'Hulk report, sent at own request' and 'Stated M[other] at Chelsea'
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: majm on Saturday 13 March 21 20:44 GMT (UK)

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=699561  reply #8

Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: frederickay on Saturday 13 March 21 21:40 GMT (UK)
Hi thank you for that . Now to find out if my John  transported 1829 is the same boy aged 13 transported in 1821 . With a john Jutsum returning to England in 1824 it is possibile . The crimes were almost identical ,, silverware , Thank you , Fred
Title: Re: John Thomas Jutsum , 1802 transported 1829
Post by: matthewj64 on Saturday 13 March 21 21:41 GMT (UK)
...Were convicts allowed to return to England ?...
In May 1824 John Judson had served out his 7 year sentence and received his Certificate of Freedom, allowing him to travel, including back to England.

Government notice of his certificate (1st column)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article1090208

Tickets of leave / Certificates of freedom / Pardons
https://www.nla.gov.au/research-guides/convicts/tickets-of-leave

M