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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: tweekymum63 on Tuesday 16 March 21 08:32 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for any information on Patricia Denise Davenport nee Morgan
I know that at the age of 28yrs , in March 1940, she married Harry Davenport in London, but in November 1940 she was widowed.
In August 1941 she was living in Northamptonshire and had a son, who was later adopted.
I believe that she was born in Northern England or even Scotland but have never been able to find any birth records for her.
I also do not know what happened to her after 1947 when her son was adopted.
Many thanks
Jean
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Her birth date was
25/12/1911
but I can't find her registration so far
Louisa Maud
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I know that at the age of 28yrs , in March 1940, she married Harry Davenport in London
Her father's name and occupation should be on that marriage certificate.
Debra :)
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As LM says, struggling to find a birth
Only 2 Patricia Morgan births on SP free index 1910 - 1915
MORGAN JEAN PATRICIA
F
1911 626/A1 133 Cadder (Western)
MORGAN PATRICIA
F
1915 644/21 719 Govan
& 3 on freebmd
Births Dec 1911
Morgan Patricia G Burchell Paddington 1a 131
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Dec 1913
Morgan Patriciah Rolls Southwark 1d 240
Births Jun 1914
MORGAN Patricia A O'Leary Farnham 2a 290
Yes, that marriage certificate the best way to go for now.
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I think you'll find the birth date is 25/12/1911.
Emeltom
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Ah that seems to make more sense, emeltom. But no births with a middle name Denise....
Marriages Mar 1940
Davenport Harry Morgan Pancras 1b 252
Morgan Patricia D Davenport Pancras 1b 252
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Sorry, my mistake on birth
LM
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I can't see this on GRO to find out the middle name. March qtr 1912 would be reasonable for a Christmas Day birth.
Births Mar qtr 1912
Overall Patricia D MMN Overall
Woodbridge 4a 2053
ADDED Can't see anything of her later :-\
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Maybe a long shot but there is a 21 year old Patricia Morgan arriving 9 Sep 1932 in Liverpool.
Ship departed from Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Ports of Voyage: Belfast; Greenock
Ship name "Duchess of Erdford"
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Births Mar qtr 1912
Overall Patricia D MMN Overall
Woodbridge 4a 2053
ADDED Can't see anything of her later :-\
According to a family tree, it is Dulcie. She married in 1933.
Debra :)
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Thanks Dundee, glad to have eliminated that one. It was the only Patricia D (no surname) birth coming up on freebmd for Dec11/Jan 12. Trish's passenger list looks promising :)
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There is a Harry Devonport death 06/11/1940 born 30/04/1906 Burton on Trent
An addres given for him is Mrs Noate/Moate
121 Eastwood Ave March Cambs
no Patricia showing
Is this your Harry Davenport?
There is a family tree for him on Ancestry
Louisa Maud
Just realised it is Tweekymum's tree
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Maybe a long shot but there is a 21 year old Patricia Morgan arriving 9 Sep 1932 in Liverpool.
Ship departed from Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Ports of Voyage: Belfast; Greenock
Ship name "Duchess of Erdford"
Cannot find a ship with the name DUCHESS OF ERDFORD. Might it be the Canadian Pacific vessel DUCHESS OF BEDFORD?
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9278087
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HI there Tweekymum and welcome to Rootschat.
You say that Harry died in Nov 1940- was he on the HMS Jervis when it went down?
His DOB is given as 1906.It's looking as though he was living in Stepney in 1939.
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Evening all
Id like to thank you all for your replies for this post.
Patricia was my Paternal grandmother, the son she had adopted is my father.
I found a possible D.O.B 25.12.1911 in a 1939 Registry, but can not confirm as I cant find any birth registration.
Her Fathers names was Richard Patrick Morgan, listed as Deceased on her marriage certificate, but again I cant find anything to confirm this
Harry Davenport was killed In Action on 5.11.1940 aboard the HMS Jervis Bay. He was listed as my dad's father on his birth certificate, but its clearly not the case.
Dads DNA results show Ancestry firmly based in Scotland 56% and Northern England and Europe 31%
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My dad's birth name was Leon Patrick Davenport, which was changed to F* B* M* upon his adoption at the age of 6yrs in 1947
Jean
Edit , living ?
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Patricia might not be found till the next census assuming she was born before 1921
You did find the right person on 1939 but at the moment we don't know if the D of B is correct
Louisa Maud
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On her marriage certificate and dad's adoption certificate her name is Patricia Denise.
Yh i know and cant wait its just so frustrating, but I'm looking at different angles at the moment just to keep busy while I'm waiting. She listed her father Richard Patrick as deceased on her marriage certificate but not been able to find a death registration so I'm looking into WW1 records to see if i can find him there.
I'vefiubd a couple of possibles so now just need to cross reference with the 1911 census ..
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Are the witnesses to the marriage of Patricia any help
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I am not sure who the witnesses are, I don't think they are related to either Patricia or
harry because the surnames are different .... they are H. Dyball and W. Kimmenu, I suspect they could be co workers as both Patricia and Harry, listed their address at the time of the marriage as The Hampdon club, Polygon Rd, London. I have done a little bit of research on the Hampdon Club and discovered that it was gentlemen's clubs. Patricia's occupation was Still Room Maid and Harry's was Club Cook.
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Bearing in mind the marriage was so near to 1939 I think I would be inclined to look on 1939 for the witnesses
LM
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No view of the witnesses on 1939, in fact kimmenu no trace but I stand to be corrected
LM
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Could Patricia have been born in Ireland ?
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Therr is no Irish Strand in dad's DNA. Only Scottish 56% and Northern England and Europe 31% . Patricia is my dad's birth mother.
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Ah, Thanks. In light of your reply, Instead of Ireland, has a Scottish birth been considered ?
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To date I've not been able to find anything other than a 1939 Registry entry giving a DofB 25.12.1911 and an occupation of Domestic. It say at that time she resides in Featherstone West Riding Yorkshire but no place of birth. I've been researching her for about 15yrs..
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Just got me thinking, if , and it isn't a sure date, but if we assume she was born 1912, consider her father might have been born 20 to 30 years before and start looking for him from about 1880 ish, perhaps Scotland, just a thought
LM
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I hadn't given that a thought thanks ;D
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Only 2 listed in all of Scotland in the years between 1908-1915
JEAN PATRICIA MORGAN
F
1911
626/A1 133
Cadder (Western)
PATRICIA MORGAN
F
1915
644/21 719
Govan
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I'm seeing:
Patricia Denise Morgan
Birth 25 DEC 1911
Not sure if middle name is old news..
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This is her was it in the 1939 registry ?
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Off Ancest...
A Davenport relative of hers had it as such with father as Richard Patrick Morgan... But yeah, the 1939 register is there as a link...not sure if that's where Denise comes from.
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Patricia D Morgan is cross referenced to Davenport so I feel it is her, 1939
LM
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Its my tree on ancestry she is my dads birth mother. I have her marriage certificate that gives Denise as her middle name as well have my dads adoption certificate. I have been researching her for about 15yrs but haven't been able to find any definitive birth records.
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Same info on a second tree called .Mark Heal 28-02-21...
Anyhow just trying to help. Must be annoying getting all of thee worthless answers here. I hope you find her...
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All searches are good helpful searches, Alan. You never know what may come up ;)
I looked at possible Scottish entries the other day. Not much around really :-\
The 1911 Jean Patricia Morgan birth in Scotland, father is David, a customs & excise officer
The 1915 Patricia Morgan, father is William, a ships rigger.
There are only 5 marriages in Scotland for a Richard Morgan between 1890-1920. Only one before 1911, and on 1911. Bride on that was a Margaret Jardine, a 48 yr old spinster...
There is always the possibility that Patricia could have been illegitimate but gave reputed father's name on her marriage reg.
Jean, guessing the details on the 1940 marriage for Patricia did not include an occupation for father Richard? Did he show as Richard Patrick on the registration?
Monica
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On the contrary no answer is worthless or annoying because it could be just what I'm looking for .
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Looking at family trees
Patricia Daphne Morgan is shown as having the same birth as your Patricia Denise Morgan , coincidence?
LM
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I think it is coincidence as the paperwork I have all say Patricia Denise mmm !!!
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Jean, guessing the details on the 1940 marriage for Patricia did not include an occupation for father Richard? Did he show as Richard Patrick on the registration?
Monica
In case you missed my earlier post... :)
Looking at her 1939 Register entry, I wonder what the note on the r/h side means? 'See Book 2, pg 2'?
Added: Also wonder why there is a line through her entry on the Register?
Monica
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Monica
As i already have the marriage certificate i havent really looked for the registration but i will do in the morning.
As for the registry entry its been puzzling me too and I've tried searching for BK 2 but cant find any other reference to it.
You dont know how frustrating it has been over the last 15yrs, I'm no further forward and it seems I really only have 2 pieces of evidence that she ever even existed, 1 is the marriage certificate and the other is my dad, her son.
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Must continue to be :-\
The name Denise at that time (early 1900s) does not make me think Scottish to be honest. Between 1855-1915, there are only 15 instances where the name Denise comes up in a birth registration in Scotland (thousands thereafter!). With the DNA results you have, it could well be on her mother's side where the Scottish genes may lie (always so hard to guess at).
I wonder where you could get some clarification on the note and score out on her 1939 entry.
Monica
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By the sounds of it, you have seen your dad's adoption papers and they didn't add much more?
Monica
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Must admit I didn't understand the ref to Book 2, with no other reference numbers i didn't know where to look, the crossing out, isn’t that Morgan crossed out and Devonport shown above, her married name .
LM
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Monica
Yes I have dad's Adoption Order, which gives the Birth Mothers name Patricia Denise Davenport, the child's birth name and D.O.B Leon Patrick Davenport 26th August 1941, and, the Adopters Names and address, but that's all the info it gives.
I also have dad's Adoption Certificate changing his name from Leon Patrick Davenport to Frank Brian Morton.
I also have a copy of the both the original Register of Birth in the local church records as well as his Baptism, both giving her name as Patricia Denise. Unfortunately, the church was bombed in the war and all records were lost.
Jean
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LM
Yes I was very confused about this entry too, I have been quite busy with work since I found it but work is slowing down a bit now so I intend contact the GRO to see if they can shed any light on it.
I also am beginning to suspect that she herself was adopted, purely because there are no birth records for her .
I really cant wait for the 1921 census to be released :)
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Monica
Patricia's fathers name and occupation are not on the registration.
I am thinking that Patricia was English with Scottish ancestry i.e. father and/of mother and that dad's father, whom is unknown is full Scottish.
I have found a DNA link to a 3rd Cousin who is Scottish and she definitely does not have Patricia, but there is a missing link that we believe could be dad's dad.
Jean
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Regarding the 1939 note to "see page 2 book 2":
I started tracking other people around with that note, and finally found that page. I have no idea of why people were entered there, but almost all of them are still blacked out, which is why your Patricia isn't showing up there.
Example: look up Mary Payne, West Yorkshire, born 02 Feb 1918
Ancestry will show her twice. One entry says to "see page 2 book 2" on the right side.
(Using the navigation above any 1939 image go to Yorkshire (West Riding) - Featherstone UD -- KMWD Image 3 of 29)
The other entry will actually be that page. Nothing is different in her information though, same address etc. (Using the navigation above any 1939 image go to Yorkshire (West Riding) - Featherstone UD -- KMWD Image 27 of 29)
There is an entry above Mary Payne that is Moor Rd., and one after her on the following page, so for some reason, over time, people in the area were re-entered. The only thing I can think of is it was to do with increasing rations for whatever reason?
I'm not sure if Ancestry can unblock her name on that page; it might be worth asking them!
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Thanks bbart for the info, its still only showing one entry so ill get in touch with Ancestry and maybe the GRO and see if they can help ;D
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I wonder if getting Harry's service record might have anything useful about Patricia on it?
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I'm not sure if Ancestry can unblock her name on that page; it might be worth asking them!
I think that you have to go through the National Archives to unblock someone on the 1939 register, you need their death certificate and I know there is a charge. Alternatively FindMyPast will do it free of charge with the death certificate to those with a subscription.
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Worth a try Tweekymum
LM
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I dont think I'd be able to as i dont have a definitive death date or certificate.
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Her Fathers names was Richard Patrick Morgan, listed as Deceased on her marriage certificate, but again I cant find anything to confirm this
Leon Patrick Davenport 26th August 1941
I will put this pure speculation here for when the 1921 census hopefully gives Patricia's place of birth.
There was a Richard MORGAN born in 1891 in Liverpool, the son of Richard MORGAN and Margaret SWEETMAN. His brothers were Thomas, Joseph, William, Christopher and Leo.
MORGAN, RICHARD
Mother's maiden surname: SWEETMAN
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 293
They were a Catholic family.
Richardus MORGAN
Birth Date: 6 Feb 1891
Baptism Date: 16 Feb 1891
Baptism Place: St Francis Xavier's (Francisci Xavarii), Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Richardi MORGAN
Mother: Margarethae SWEETMAN
1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7SYZ-S3Z
1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X92B-ZQ2
1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWTJ-KQD
(The youngest child is 'Leo' not George. Even if they thought it was 'Geo.' that is no excuse for transcribing it as 'George'.)
I believe he married in 1920 to Eliza CHRISTIE for two reasons - his birthdate in 1939 is an exact match and he named a son Leo Patrick.
Marriages Mar 1920
CHRISTY, Eliza E
MORGAN, Richard R
Chorlton 8c 1726
Without seeing the certificate I have no explanation for the middle 'R' apart from the possibility that it was wrongly transcribed to the indexes.
In 1919 he is Richard Patrick MORGAN on the electoral register with his mother Margaret and brothers Christopher, Joseph and William at 36 Eastbourne Street, Everton.
Debra :)
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Dads DNA results show Ancestry firmly based in Scotland 56% and Northern England and Europe 31%
All your DNA results tell you is that you are a match with other people who have researched their families and found them to be from those areas. If their research is wrong (and there is plenty of that) or they haven't yet expanded their search beyond recent generations then other possible places will not be included.
Debra :)
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Debra, speculative it may be...but looks really promising.
If he was the reputed father of Patricia, he would have been around 20 when she was born. Likely unmarried from what you found.
Monica
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I've been doing a bit of digging into the reasons for the 1939 note "see page 2 book 2" and found these 2 sections from the National Archives interesting.
8. What does it mean when an entry is crossed out and marked ‘See page…?’
These refer to ‘continuation entries’ where the line in the ‘postings’ column (see section 9.3) against a person’s name was full up, and a new line had to be created for any new entries.
The new line was added at the back of the enumeration book or sometimes at the back of the next book in large enumeration districts that comprised two or more books. You can browse to the page containing the continuation entry if it is in the same book; if it is in the next book you can use the browse function described in section 5.2 to go there, and then browse to the right page. However, this is very unlikely to contain any additional information.
9.4 The ‘postings’ column
Each entry in the Register extended across a double page spread. However, the accessioned digital record does not include the ‘postings’ column on the right hand page which contains various codes used for National Registration and National Health Service purposes. The National Archives does not have access to this column and the information it contains.
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/
The article in the link below from "Lost Cousins" also has suggestions regarding what was on the right hand page that we cannot see. It suggests the right hand page was used for NHS codes such as when someone visited a new doctor. As Patricia had a "continuation entry" on another page she must have had a lot of entries, maybe Patricia moved around a lot.
The Register was used by the National Health Service who continued updating the records until 1991.
https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/mar16news.htm#NHS
Interesting thread Tweekymum, I hope you find Patricia.
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So Jools, do you think Patricia died before 1991?, she has been so difficult to find, she was found on the ER's in London 1964
Louida Maud
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Hi LM, I don't think there is anything to suggest she died before 1991, I was just pointing out that the register was updated by the NHS until then when they changed to a computerised system.
She is certainly hiding herself well.
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She certainly is, would like to solve this for Tweekymum, Iike her name
LM
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This might be way way out and am not sure if anyone has listed this
Patricia D Overall
birth reg March Qtr 1912
Woodbridge
MMN Overall
this child is illegitimate
Strange thing is, so far I can't find a death or marriage for her
LM
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This might be way way out and am not sure if anyone has listed this
Patricia D Overall
birth reg March Qtr 1912
Woodbridge
MMN Overall
this child is illegitimate
Strange thing is, so far I can't find a death or marriage for her
LM
Yes Rosie found it reply number 8 but like you she couldn't find her after that birth.
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Thank you Carol
Sorry Rosie.
Can't even find anything out about a possible parent Overall on 1911 census in Woodbridge area, a baptism would be a good idea
LM
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A Patricia Overall married a Jack A Harvey in Ipswich in 1933.
She seems to be in Ipswich in 1939 as Patricia D Harvey.
Added- that's the one whose middle name is Dulcie.
3 possible Harvey/ Overall births in the 30's and 40's.
Which fits with those still redacted in 1939.
An Ancestry tree has her mum as Lota Kathleen Overall ,but dad unkown.
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Oh, another one bites the dust!
LM
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Sorry guys but dont think patricia Overall is correct . She married Harry Davenport in London in March 1940 as a spinster
Jean
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Still searching but to be honest don't know where else to look
LM
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Sorry guys but dont think patricia Overall is correct . She married Harry Davenport in London in March 1940 as a spinster
Jean
We eliminated her right at the beginning, replies 7 & 9.
Has anyone looked futher at Trish's suggestion on reply 8.
Presumably you have eliminated the marriages on freebmd for women with that name, just two women but one married twice so 3 marriages listed.
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Has anyone looked further at Trish's suggestion on reply 8.
She was aged 21 student with a Robert Chas Morgan broker aged 49, last country of permanent residence England, intended address Hermitage Brentwood. Ship definitely Duchess of Bedford as seaweed pointed out.
ADDED: They went out on the Duchess of Richmond sailing from Liverpool on 8 Jul 1932, Robert 49 head born Wanstead, Patricia 20 daughter born London going to Vancouver BC, permanent address Mrs R C Morgan Hermitage, Brentwood, Essex. Manifest gives passport numbers.
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Thanks Josey, I was struggling with my ipad :)
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So this birth
Births Dec 1911
Morgan Patricia G Burchell Paddington 1a 131
& marriage
Marriages Jun 1907
BURCHELL Doris Milfred St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 873
KEMP Mary St Geo H. Sq 1a 873
MORGAN Robert Charles A St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 873
WILLIAMS Benjamin Stephen St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 873
ADDED: baptism CHrist CHurch Lancaster Gate shows Patricia Grace born 30 Oct 1911 baptised 7 Dec 1911.
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I haven't checked yet but I wonder if there were siblings
LM
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Probably
MORGAN, PATRICK ROBERT CHARLES BURCHELL
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in ST. GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 466 Occasional Copy: A
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I think the following newspaper articles dated 10th August 1938 could be your Patricia. It’s a very strange situation!
Trish
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Another one.
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And another.
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Another.
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Attached this time !
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:o Could well be her, Trish! Certainly goes with all the mystery surrounding her.
Monica
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It does sound likely. On her way to Halifax looking for work and on the 1939 register in Yorkshire. I wonder if she was trying to get away from somebody and maybe her real name was something else..or is my imagination running away!
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I wonder what archives there are for the Gibbet Street Instution? www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=2261
There is of course the 100 yr rule for many records.
Monica
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Great finds Trish!!! :o
Halifax is about 20 miles away from Featherstone, Yorkshire where she was in 1939.
Another newspaper article mentions she had black hair in an "eton crop" hairstyle. (just noticed the first newspaper report you posted mentions it)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_crop
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WOW !! This is fantastic, really sounds like it could be her, the age is about right and dad said he remembers having black hair and talking with an accent THANK YOU SO MUCH !!!!!
Have just noticed that the spelling of Denesse is different ???
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1938 reports, if her age was given as between 20 and 23
that makes her date of birth either 1918 or 1915
LM
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Wonderful finds, trish.
Have just noticed that the spelling of Denesse is different ???
That may have been the Yorkshire interpretation of Denise. I have lived in Yorkshire for 21 years & both my names are misinterpreted if I say them in a very southern accent. Though MAYBE the Denesse is a family surname as middle name ???
How on earth did she get to Sowerby Bridge from Newark after being knocked down? Over 80 miles. Though if she knew she was going to Halifax [why Halifax?] she was going in the right direction, probably via Sheffield & Leeds on the train.
1938 reports, if her age was given as between 20 and 23
26 in the second article.....
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Great finds Trish. What an interesting thread. If Patricia did lose her memory, she may have made up a date of birth for the 1939 register
Chris
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All three article only approximate her age , although one does say she is 26 which is about right for the D.O.B in the 1939 registry , but if my dad (her son) is anything to go by, she might not have looked it. Dad is 80 this year but he only looks late 60' or early 70's .... Just a theory :)
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Do we only have Patricia's word for it, ie after she was found in Sowerby Bridge, that her real name is PDM? I am reminded of Agatha Christie's disappearance in 1926. She gave her name as one of her husband's mistresses.
What was Patricia's occupation on her marriage certificate? She is a domestic in 1939, having spoken with a 'refined accent' when found in 1938.
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The marriage certificate lists her occupation as a Still Room Maid at The Hampden Club Polygon Rd London
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Don't seem to be any nearer, still searching
LM
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Trying to find out a bit more about "Hermitage Brentwood"
not a lot of information except it was a Grade 11 listed building which now belongs to Essex County Council
LM
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I think, as has been said before, that the 1921 census will reveal a lot. If there is no Patricia D[enise] Morgan, it could be that she changed or misremembered her name in Sowerby Bridge. Only a few months to wait now.....
I think this is the death of Patricia Grace's father
Deaths Sep 1939
Morgan Robert C A 56 Chelmsford 4a 675 [ADDED: Oh dear just found a newspaper report, died at Thoby Priory of self-inflicted throat wounds...]
and mother
Deaths Sep 1959
MORGAN Doris M 74 Chelmsford 4a 348
On 10 Sep 1937 the whole family [Robert C A is a Lt Col] arrived at Southampton on the SS Baloeran. The family lived in Thoby Priory, Mountnessing, Essex at that that time. I very much doubt if this is the family we are looking for.
LM, I think there are 2 Hermitages in Brentwood:
The Hermitage, Great Warley Street, Great Warley, Brentwood, Essex, CM13 3JP
https://themovemarket.com/tools/propertyprices/the-hermitage-great-warley-street-brentwood-cm13-3jp
and
The Hermitage, Shenfield Road, Brentwood, Essex, CM15 8AG
https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/photos/item/IOE01/01005/12
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Just a few thoughts on what the newspaper reports have revealed...
I was thinking the same as ChrissieL, maybe she forgot her date of birth and on the 1939 Register chose Christmas day as her birthday so it was easier to remember.
Tweekymum, I realise your dad was very young, but does he have any recollection of celebrating Christmas day and his mum's birthday on the same day? He did remember her black hair after all.
If she had an "eton crop" hairstyle, it may have made her look younger. The ages given appear to be estimated though and age 26 does fit.
I think Denesse rather than Denise was just how the person who took her details assumed it was spelt.
Strange that she remembered the name of the road in Newark where she was knocked down, could this mean she was familiar with Newark?
Did she really not remember her address or did she not want to tell anyone as she didn't want to go back.
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Is this connected?
Newspaper snippet 1st August 1938. Nottingham Journal
‘Three London people in hospital at Newark ..the result of a motor cycle combination overturning on the Great North Road at Weston, near Newark on Saturday night. People are detained at Newark hospital,with injuries, which fortunately..’
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Is this connected?
Newspaper snippet 1st August 1938. Nottingham Journal
‘Three London people in hospital at Newark ..the result of a motor cycle combination overturning on the Great North Road at Weston, near Newark on Saturday night. People are detained at Newark hospital,with injuries, which fortunately..’
.... are not regarded as serious
They are Thomas Jackson (34) his wife (30) and brother Mr Alexander Jackson all of 14 Gleason Road, Hillingdon, Middlesex
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Thanks Rosie. You would think if his wife had gone missing there would be more publicity. :)
It must be just a coincidence.
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Interesting find heywood....
I did look in the newspaper archive for missing person/woman at beginning of August, no suitable result. As an aside I could only find a woman who had gone missing with her 4 children [leaving tea on table prepared for husband...]; surprisingly I cannot find any further reference to her or the children, nor find family in 1939 or the named childrens' births....so easy to get side-tracked ;D
ADDED: Aha found them with slightly changed surname. Phew....so the family did get back together.
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Jool
I spoke to my dad this morning and he doesn't remember a great deal but he does remember her hair was black and short.
I forwarded him the articles and he like everyone thinks it very interesting 🤔
He has bever said anything about any celebrations.
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just a few thoughts
I wonder why Patricia's son was adopted when he was about 6 in 1947.
Did Patricia die?
Did she remarry and her new husband wasn't keen to have him around?
Did she go abroad to live and start a new life?
I wonder if he had he been living with Patricia right up until the time he was adopted?
Chris
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They are Thomas Jackson (34) his wife (30) and brother Mr Alexander Jackson all of 14 Gleason Road, Hillingdon, Middlesex
I think you'll find that should be Glisson Road (must be how the newspaper thought it should be spelt.) But of course number 14 doesn't exist in 1939,the whole household is redacted. ;D
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Patricia was my paternal grandmother and the son is my dad.
Honestly I don't think that it was ultimately her decision to have him adopted
The story goes according to my dads adopted parents, who from my own experience of them were, nasty vindictive people, that Patricia was a "Good Time Girl" showing military personnel "A good Time" before they went off to war and that my dad was the product of one such liaison with an American Serviceman, but this alone has been proved untrue as dad have no American Strand in his DNA.
Anyway, the story goes that ,Patricia left my dad with various "Aunts and Uncles" to be looked after while she went off to "work". She eventually left him with his now adopted parents, who immediately made him a "Ward of Court" severing all contact between them, and then went on to adopt him.
In my opinion I don't think there was any wilful neglect on Patricia's part, it was just a sad situation of a widowed single mother trying to do the best she could for her son, that ultimately led to her losing him.
Jean
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dad has no American Strand in his DNA.
Surely many first or second generation Americans would have only the ethnicity strands of their immediate forebears, so if an American was a child of [say] Scottish parents who had emigrated to the USA, making a son American, he would show only Scottish ethnicity?
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I wonder if any of you have experience of searching for adoption records? Jean's dad has given her what he has, the Adoption Order and Certificate which were given to the adoptive parents. How could Jean go about making enquiries as to whether there could be a background file for the adoption? Details of the Court involved would be in the Order as a starting place. Also, the family have the original birth registration. Would be good to check for any other papers that could be sourced.
Monica
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They are Thomas Jackson (34) his wife (30) and brother Mr Alexander Jackson all of 14 Gleason Road, Hillingdon, Middlesex
I think you'll find that should be Glisson Road (must be how the newspaper thought it should be spelt.) But of course number 14 doesn't exist in 1939,the whole household is redacted. ;D
I had suspected it was Glisson Road, It was not redacted but apparently empty
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I agree jean, none of us knowS what hardship widowed mothers had to deal with during and after the war, and in most cases they dealt with it as they deemed fit, in this case no one knows if she suffered long term from her accident
Patricia I am sure will turn up, just we haven't found her yet
LM
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Jean, are you sure that the adoptive parents were not related in some way? Do you know how it came about that she chose them to leave the child with?
Debra :)
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Debra, I did ask my dad if there was any relationship between Patricia and his adopted parents and he isn't aware of any, the only think he could suggest was they knew each other through a pub they used to frequent, either Patricia was a barmaid and the Mortons( dads adopted parents)were customers or they were both customers. Irresponsible i know but i suppose tough times call for drastic measures.
There is always the possibility that she was somehow tricked into leaving him with them, they were afterall, as I've said before , a very vindictive, rigid couple with very strong views on right and wrong, and maybe they thought her being an unmarried mother went against all their beliefs. Jean
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Thats a point, Davenport MMN Morgan to Morton ?
LM
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Yes LM I'd thought of that too but dad is adamant there was no connection hmm !!
Unless he was never made aware of it because his adoption and his mum were NEVER discussed
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On her marriage certificate and dad's adoption certificate her name is Patricia Denise.
Where was that certificate issued
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The adoption hearing took place at Barking Town Hall, Barking Essex., 12TH August 1947. The Adoption Order was registered in the Division of Beacontree in Essex. The certified says thst its a certified copy if an entry in the Adopted Childrens Register at GRO
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Thank you, so possibly not someone down the pub then ;D. I don't know anything about adoptions but I believe there is a 'file' that can be accessed
https://www.family-tree.co.uk/how-to-guides/how-to-find-your-uk-ancestors-using-adoption-records/
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Patricia must have been registered, 1911 ish or thereabouts, we are not sure, I am beginning to think she was registered in a different name or adopted herself but I wonder why she was so alone during her sad times and had to rely on "friends" to adopt her lad and none of her family
Have tied variations of her names, did come up with an Irma Patricia Denise, tracked her but to no avail, thought that might have been a way to find her
Did you try to access Harry's records?
And so we search on
Louisa Maud
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Dawnsh is great with info about the adoption files at the National Archives.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5239
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Very interesting thread.
Regarding DNA test ..if you did it with ancestry you can do a name search to see if any matches have Morton or Morgan's on their trees
To rule out the adoptive family connection
Also you can try out some surnames from his highest matches trees and find if ypu have any cluster of matches with any common names
Also you could test the American serviceman theory by using location in shared matches and see if their are any shared matches with American locations
Sometimes with adoptee DNA you can work out a distant mutual relative before you know the line you need to follow
Good luck
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Hi brigidmac
Yes did Ancestry DNA and have followed all the leads you have suggested. The results only produced 1 strand that i have been able to follow so far, it is via a 3rd cousin with the scottish strand, but we think its to do with dad's birth father and not his mother patricia as the missing link is male, but I've been searching for so long that anything could be possible lol !!
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Rosie, from your link above, that is the sort of info I thought Jean could try following up on. From there, in particular, I would consider contacting this group, Jean www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk/search/adoptionrecords/
Re Patricia, too horrible to contemplate that Patricia Denise are not her birth names :-\ Searching through on the GRO in the Middlesex/London/Essex/Surrey areas, assuming her birthday was in December 1911, there was only one illegitimate birth that I could see:
Patricia Talbot (mother's maiden name) 4th Qrt 1911 Islington.
I also noticed that there was a Patricia D Davenport in the 1947 Electoral Rolls showing at 31 Esher Street Westminster. Then nothing with that name till the late 1960s as LM has mentioned earlier.
Monica
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... The Adoption Order was registered in the Division of Beacontree in Essex...
I think this should be Becontree.
The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham have issued this help guide as to their holdings (it is a word document):
http://valencehousecollections.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Infosheet44Adoptionrecords.doc.
Monica
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Although it's no help with Patricia's birth details but I was looking through the marriages on Freebmd.
A Patricia D Davenport married Donald AE Ackland Jun QTR 1943 Brentford
Then
Patricia D Ackland or Davenport married Frederick T Eames Mar QTR 1955 Ealing
Not sure if this could be relevant
Chris
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Well worth following up, ChrissieL. The first marriage certificate initially certainly worth a punt.
ADDED: Not necessarily related to the marriage found above but strange ???
Deaths Dec 1955
EAMES Frederick T 83 Ealing 5e 43
EAMES Frederick T 54 Ealing 5e 70
According to a newspaper death notice, 83 yr old Eames was husband of Millie. Can't find report for the 54 yr old.
Death of Donald A E Ackland
Age 75
DOB20 Nov 1923
Registration Jan 1999 South Gloucester
D2 3041D 215
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Chriss
it's definitely not Donald Ackland as I've already double checked and illuminated him and I'm still cros checking Frederick Eames.
Jean
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But, didn't you find her 1964 in London as Davenport?
LM
PS, can't find a Patricia Eames death as yet (numerous Beatrice Eames strangely)
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(numerous Beatrice Eames strangely)
I have been running through the potential marriages as well, and noticed the Beatrice thing as well.
It finally dawned on me that the search engine looks for letter combinations, so when you look for PATRICia it includes BeATRICe.
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The marriage 1955 was in March qtr
1955, 2 x deaths Frederick T Eames
both Dec qtr one aged 83 and one aged 54
will see if there is a will for these two
LM
added from admin and wills, widows as follows
1) Maggie Louisa Eames
2) Amelia Eames (Millie)
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Chriss
it's definitely not Donald Ackland as I've already double checked and illuminated him and I'm still cros checking Frederick Eames.
Jean
There is a Patricia D Davenport born in 1924.
Births Jun 1924
Davenport Patricia D Roberts Westbury S 6a 467
This is most likely the lady who married Donald A E Ackland as he was born in 1923
Chris
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I wonder if getting Harry's service record might have anything useful about Patricia on it?
I have not looked to see whether anyone has commented on this but it could be useful.
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I wonder if getting Harry's service record might have anything useful about Patricia on it?
I have not looked to see whether anyone has commented on this but it could be useful.
Thank you Rosie ;)
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I wonder if getting Harry's service record might have anything useful about Patricia on it?
I have not looked to see whether anyone has commented on this but it could be useful.
Thank you Rosie ;)
My brain has just engaged :). Shouldn't she have got a War Widows pension.
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So Jools, do you think Patricia died before 1991?, she has been so difficult to find, she was found on the ER's in London 1964
Louida Maud
Where was she living. :-\
I can see a Patricia D Davenport in Surbiton electoral registers in 1964/65 with an Alice Davenport and a Joseph W Davenport. We can eliminate that one.
Marriage June qtr 1945
Carter Patricia D
Davenport Joseph W
Surrey N.E. 2a 223
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We have nothing more on her, Rosie :-\
That is why I am hoping a search/check to see whether the actual adoption file survives might provide additional info on her.
There is that Electoral Roll entry from 1947 - should be 1945:
Patricia D Davenport in the 1945 Electoral Rolls showing at 31 Esher Street Westminster
But that is all that I could see.
Not familiar with searching for a War Widows pension. Where would Jean check for this?
Monica
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Not familiar with searching for a War Widows pension. Where would Jean check for this?
Monica
That's excatly what I was going to ask too- but no one except Rosie has commented on my suggestion of getting hold of Harry's service record. Will you even be allowed to access it as he died so early in the war in Nov 1940?
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I would have thought these records would be at Kew, she might have to write to prove the connection
Louisa Maud
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She appears to be in Penywern Road Kensington in, from memory 1964/1966, not with any familia names I don't think
Louisa Maud
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For service records, I think it is the Ministry of Defence. See www.gov.uk/government/collections/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records
Monica
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I doubt that you would be able access any information on War widows pensions which would probably still be with the pensions office. Army records would be with the MOD.
16 Penywern Road is the Oxford Hotel in Earls Court. Lots of people mentioned on the register at that address. There is no middle initial on the entry.
There is another entry for a Patricia Davenport in 1964/65 at 3 Cambridge Place with a David T.H Davenport in Kensington in the same year, they could be the same person as they are both in 'Kensington South'. maybe she worked at the hotel.
Marriage Jun qtr 1960
BARHAM Patricia
DAVENPORT David T H
Ashford reg dist 5b 35
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The entry for 3 Cambridge Place is definitely not my patricia because Davenport is her married name from Harry who was killed in November 1940.
I think she was working and possibly living at tbe Oxford Hotel.
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If this was Patricia in the mid 1960s, still with name Davenport, then possibly she did not remarry? She would have been in her mid 50s by now. So how would her death have been recorded if not under Davenport :-\
Monica
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I am not sure that her birth has been found as yet, it is assumed to be 1912.
There was time for her to remarry or go abroad, even if she was in her 50's
Louisa Maud
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I think she was working and possibly living at tbe Oxford Hotel.
I have my doubts about that being her unless you know otherwise.
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Army records
The Army Personnel Centre MS Support Unit,
P & D Branch Historical Disclosures,
MP 555 Kentigern House
65 Brown Street
GLASGOW G2 8EX
The forms you need are online. There is a cost involved and they take sometime ( months) to arrive.
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I know it is not often a lot of use, but have you had your father's maternal DNA done? He will have Patricia's mtDNA, but you will not as sons cannot pass it on. Lines can go back 100s of generations but there is an outside chance he could match with someone.
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I am not sure that her birth has been found as yet, it is assumed to be 1912.
There was time for her to remarry or go abroad, even if she was in her 50's
Louisa Maud
For sure. We know nothing about her really, other than her 1939 entry, marriage to Harry in 1940 and birth/adoption of her son. The rest is unknown really. Even the name of her father and birth date is up for question :-\
Monica
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There is that Electoral Roll entry from 1947 - should be 1945:
Patricia D Davenport in the 1945 Electoral Rolls showing at 31 Esher Street Westminster
At 31 Schomberg House, Esher Street
With Frederick C Carter, John Carter, Ruth Carter, Marjorie V Voce, Frederick C Aldridge (Aldridges at 32 as well)
Marjorie V Carter married Stanley W Voce, 1936, Westminster
The Carter family may be at Schomberg House in the 1939 Register*
Possibly disappointing news. There is a marriage
June 1945, Surrey North Eastern
Patricia D Carter + Joseph W Davenport
*Free index to 1939 Register
Patricia Doris Davenport (Carter), born 1920, living at 24 Shomberg House, Pimlico, City Of Westminster
Not sure about the Doris!
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And that likely takes care of that possible entry for Patricia. Thanks for that, jonw65. Helps to eliminate entries as we go :)
Monica
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Sorry about that, Monica.
Does Jean's father remember where he was living before he was adopted?
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*Free index to 1939 Register
Patricia Doris Davenport (Carter), born 1920, living at 24 Shomberg House, Pimlico, City Of Westminster
Not sure about the Doris!
I think her death had her as 'Dorothy'
DAVENPORT, PATRICIA DOROTHY born c1920
DOR Q4/2003 in KINGSTON UPON THAMES (2401A) Reg A76 Entry Number 269
She is the one also discounted in reply 127
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Even the name of her father and birth date is up for question :-\
In my mind there is even a possibility that her own name is up for question, it only seems to appear after her turning up in Sowerby Bridge.
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Sounded as if she might have been suffering from concussion at the time in Sowerbridge.
We know she married Harry as maiden name Morgan, she was also shown on 1939 as Patricia Morgan, crossed out and Devonport shown, so we are sure that is her, only possible questio is her date birth and her birth registration so far not found.
Louisa Maud
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Yes, but the Sowerby Bridge incident & hospitalisation was in 1938, so the 1939 register name could possibly still be a confection or mis-remembered when she was found. I am just putting that idea out there.....as rootschatters have managed to discount the UK born Patricia Morgans found so far.
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Yes it seems all possible ladies with the name Patricia D Morgan/Davenport have been accounted for. She should be aged 9 or 10 when the 1921 census comes out. If she can be found on there, it may mean that she was adopted and changed her birth name and so can't be found in the gro index. If she can't be found on there, it could be that she changed her name following her accident.
Chris
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UPDATE :
I have requested my dad's Adoption File and I am hopeful that I'll receive it soon.
Patricia was Harry's Official Next of Kin and was at 9 North Street Wisbech, Cambridgeshire when she was notified of his death on 6th November 1940.
I have put in a request to Wakefield Archives for any more information on the Newspaper Article that was published in August 1938, as well as any other information they might have on "Patricia Dennese Morgan" i.e. Hospital Records for Gibbet Street Institution etc.
I now believe that either Patricia herself may have been Adopted and had her name changed, or that she "plucked " a name out of the air when she was found in Sowerby Bridge, either way we are not going to really know until the 1921 Census is released next year, but in the meantime I am going to contact some intermediate agencies to see if they can help.
Thank you all for your help and although we did not get much further forward with this search , all the help you have given has been very gratefully received :)
Jean x
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Was there an address on the birth certificate for her son/your dad? I am wondering if she went to relatives.... otherwise, we pace until the census comes!
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Good Morning Jean
So pleased you came back to let us know how you are doing with your research
I am sure you should be able to get hospital records, don't they have a 75 year rule?, but I stand to be corrected there, I managed to get my own , I wasn't expected to live at birth and I wanted to get more details, I had to produce my parents marriage cert and my own, plus I think death certs, because I didn't submit my twin brother details with his permission they only gave mine and my mothers although my brother was hail and hearty at birth, so it is possible
Happy Hunting Jean, please come back and let us know how you get on
Louisa Maud
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Was there an address on the birth certificate for her son/your dad? I am wondering if she went to relatives.... otherwise, we pace until the census comes!
The adress that was given on my dad's birthday certificate was for both patricia and Harry even though Harry was listed as deceased, and because it was during the war there are no electoral rolls i can check 😔
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Yes, thanks for updating us; hanging on for 1921 [not too long now!!]
Sometimes, even if a hospital record is within a 100 year rule, an archivist is willing to look a specific person's record up for you if you can provide good reason; this means that no-one else see the records of other people in the same record set.
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Hi Jean
Really happy to hear that you have applied for further details. In particular, I am crossing my fingers that the adoption file will be found and contain the background information on Patricia and what happened with her around the adoption. Even if it doesn't help with who she was, your dad will get a sense of what was happening in her life at that time.
Monica
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Hello Jean. Thanks so much for the update. Hopefully the adoption papers will you some more information. Let us know how you go on
Chris
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Hi Everyone
Sorry its been so long but I have an update.....
On embarking on this journey 15yrs ago I never thought that I would find my dad's father, believing that he was an American Serviceman, so concentrated my search on trying to find his mother, but, following the the results of a DNA test that I got him to do, several surprises have come to light,
Firstly, that he has no American DNA strain... his results show that he hails from Scotland and Northern England predominantly , and
Secondly, I have found his father ..... Allen Mellis, and several half siblings and half nieces and nephews, as well as many cousins, which as you can imagine, growing up as an only child, pleased my dad no end.
So a little background on my dad's now fairly large family....
Allen Mellis was born in Aberdeen Scotland 1901 , and had a brief stint in the army, after leaving the army he became a lorry driver and he met and married Winifred McFarlene, and they had 2 sons Allen jnr b 1922 and Isaac b 1924, but in 1927, he leaves the family home never to be seen or spoken of again and the 2 boys were sent to live independently of each other, with the two sets of grandparents, where they never had contact with each other , or their mother, again.
In November 1940, after being evacuated from London, Patricia, my dad's birth mother, is living in Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, and crosses the path of Allen Mellis and ends up pregnant.
In 1942 Alexander Mitchell, meets and marries a lady called Florence and they have 3 daughters, Florence, Alice and Pauline, but in 1952, when Winifred, his 1st wife wants to declare Allen Mellis dead so she can marry her dying long-term partner, Alexander Mitchell, disappears.
There are no official records apart from a marriage certificate for Alexander Mitchell, and given the close DNA matches, and the fact that neither men was seen or spoken of again after he left the family home, I along with a newly found close cousin believe that , Allen and Alexander are the same man.
I am now in regular contact with Allen/Alexanders grandchildren from both family units and we are hoping to arrange a reunion in the new year so dad can meet his family.
Jean
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What an amazing turn of events for you both! Thank you for updating us all. There are certain posts that we so want to see a successful outcome....such as yours ;) Big surprise for you all I am sure!
Patricia is still a mystery I think? Hopefully the up and coming 1921 census might add a little more to her search.
Monica
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Yes Patricia is still a mystery but given the DNA results and the 1939 registry entry and that Harry Davenport her husband who was killed in the North Atlantic Convoy was from Burton-upon-Trent, i strongly believe that she came from Lancashire or Yorkshire herself.
Yes i am very excited about the release of the 1921 census, infact I'm almost counting the days 😀
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great news thanks for updating us ,
so good that your search for Patricia ended up helping families of the birth father too.
have you shared photos yet ..does your father see any family resemblances to himself ?
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Yes we have exchanged photographs and telephone calls and there most definitely is a family resemblance, everything from hairline and colour through to everyone being of a similar height ( 4'9"- 5'7") and build, even down to the fact that my dad and Allen jnr had bowel cancer, dad survived but unfortunately Allen passed away from it in 2012.
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thats amazing ..have your Allen /Alexander matches gor predominantly Scottish ethnicity ?
i cant remember what you said your fathers ethnicity is but its worth taking another look
if his Scottish half was definitely from the father the other aspects would all be from mother
the results are becoming more specific I know for instance that Isle of man and wirrel can be pinpointed as areas
have you started grouping dna matches into fathers side and regions .
what is your highest match that does not match fathers side ?
i presume your tree is linked to dna results you could add parents and grandparents as unknown or something like Yorkshire lady then great grandparents with a surname that is common to your matches SMITH if there is a particular candidate you could add to tree but with hypothesis tag ...thrulines may show up .
do any surnames jump out ?
i strongly disagree that ethnicity is only based on known ancestors ...adoptees ethnic matches can be a huge help
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The Allen connection is all from Aberdeen, his birth place and all the Alexander connection are from Wisbech including the connection with Patricia. All the highest dna matches are from this side and although i have possibly identified and contacted possible Patricia matches but i have not received any replies or confirmations.
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Very exciting, enjoy it all
LM
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i indertsand tweeky but i was referring to dna regional ethnicity rather than birth location .
personally I have 56% scottish my father was 96% scottish
my mother has 8% scottish and we discovered that she did have a scottish born great grandmother
so your fathers ethnicity does indicate that ALlen ?alexander was fullscottish and Patrica may well have had one scottish great grandparent too
have the other dna regions been refined since original test /
do you look at ethnicity of your matches ?
id expect any of Allens grandchildren including the Wisbech ones to have at least 25% ish scots blood and the great grand children around 13% plus whatever amounts come from their other ancestors .
originally irish and welsh were classified together . patricai was probably 80% english and north europe ethnicity which is the hardest to match but if you click on the details ancestry now divides it for example my mothers states predominantly north england flintshire isle of man + wirrel
it might help when looking at matches of matches who have closed trees or no trees or dont answer
how high is the highest of the possible Patricia matches ?
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My dad has 56% Scottish DNA and 42% Northern English and European, but it is only the Scottish part that has been refined, giving 3 regions .... Banff and Buchan, Moray and Gordan, and Fife and Angus, and it is within the first two that Aberdeen falls.
Yes I do check all shared matches and ethnicities, and it is through these that I have possibly identified some Patricia connections, by ruling out matches that I know are connected to the Mellis/Mitchell line as well as identifying which have a higher English Ethnicity, but the difficulty with that is because I really don't know where Patricia came from, and the fact that dad vaguely remembers her talking with an accent, she could be from anywhere, although, I have ruled out Welsh and Irish as there is no DNA % to suggest that either of these regions of the UK are significant.
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Your Patricia has popped into my head tonight ::)
Fingers crossed you find something new following the release of the 1921 census...
Monica
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Aww that's nice :) thank you
Yes lets hope so , I am really looking forward to finding out !!