RootsChat.Com

Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: blairandsoniataggart on Friday 26 March 21 16:25 GMT (UK)

Title: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Friday 26 March 21 16:25 GMT (UK)
Hi

I am looking for more info on Sarah Ann townsend born 1843 in mellor Cheshire she died in 1871 in childbirth I think. She married a Charles William Webb

Thanks

Blair
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: jim1 on Friday 26 March 21 16:32 GMT (UK)
Is there anything in particular you are looking for
or are you looking for parents etc?
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Friday 26 March 21 16:40 GMT (UK)
Looking for parents. There are slot of Sarah Ann townsend but not the one I'm looking for
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: ColC on Friday 26 March 21 16:46 GMT (UK)
I do not see any BMDs for the years mentioned or a marriage. Do you know where she died?

Colin
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Friday 26 March 21 16:50 GMT (UK)
What I could find she got married to Charles Webb in 1867 in hayfield
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: QueenoftheWest on Friday 26 March 21 16:50 GMT (UK)
Sarah Ann TOWNSEND m. Charles William WEBB July 29th 1867 in Glossop, Derbyshire.

I note that, in the space for 'Father's name and surname,' Buyess (sp?) is written and father's occupation is left blank. I'm assuming this means she was illegitimate? What does Buyess (?) mean in this context?

Queenie  :)
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Alan of Kaslo on Friday 26 March 21 16:52 GMT (UK)
Was she 15 at death?

TOWNSEND, SARAH  ANN      age:15 
GRO Reference: 1871  S Quarter in GLOUCESTER  Volume 06A  Page 177

This child died same time-frame/place:

      TOWNSEND, JOHN  HENRY      0 
GRO Reference: 1871  D Quarter in GLOUCESTER  Volume 06A  Page 216
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Friday 26 March 21 16:52 GMT (UK)
Marriage was 1867 in Glossop Derbyshire.


Sarah Ann Townsend spinster aged 24 of Mellor father ( looks to read Burgess?)
Charles William Webb bac aged 26 of Mellor father John Webb.

So did mother to on to marry someone  by the name of Burgess or never married but Sarah knew his surname.

Tazzie
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: ColC on Friday 26 March 21 16:54 GMT (UK)
Sarah Ann TOWNSEND m. Charles William WEBB July 29th 1867 in Glossop, Derbyshire.


Queenie  :)

So thats why I could not find it.

“MELLOR, a chapelry in the parish of Glossop, hundred of High Peak, county Derbyshire, now in the Greater Manchester area.

Colin
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: osprey on Friday 26 March 21 16:55 GMT (UK)
burial 8 Feb 1871 age 28

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBX5-F8D
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Friday 26 March 21 16:56 GMT (UK)
All to possible she didn't know her mother and just knew her father, when she died Charles re married to a Nancy. I guess this will just end up being a mystery
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: osprey on Friday 26 March 21 16:58 GMT (UK)
image of parish register for marriage

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KB6N-N65
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 26 March 21 17:02 GMT (UK)
This is her death registration on the GRO

WEBB, SARAH  ANN     28 
GRO Reference: 1871  M Quarter in HAYFIELD  Volume 07B  Page 465

Hayfield is in Derbyshire and covers Mellor where she is supposed to have been born.
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Friday 26 March 21 17:05 GMT (UK)
Thank you all. This has helped
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 26 March 21 22:14 GMT (UK)
Quote
All to possible she didn't know her mother and just knew her father,

No sign of her as a child on census with anyone? 
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Friday 26 March 21 22:18 GMT (UK)
Maybe she was but surname different from Townsend or burgess
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 26 March 21 22:26 GMT (UK)
Where has her birthplace Mellor come from?  Or is it just her residence at time of marriage.

There is a Sarah A Townsend born 1843 Oldham Lancs on 1851/1861 census as granddaughter to Taylor family just in case that could be her.   
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 26 March 21 22:28 GMT (UK)
I've tried lots of things to try and find her on the 1851 and 1861 census but nothing coming up.  I did find what appeared to be the witness Ann Jane Spilsbury living in Mellor in 1861. Born the same year as Sarah.

Living here with her parents and siblings Longhurst Lane, Mellor, Hayfield, Derbyshire

Registration district   Hayfield
Archive reference   RG09
Piece number   2555
Folio   31
Page   9
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Friday 26 March 21 22:34 GMT (UK)
On marriage certificate it lists mellor
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 27 March 21 02:04 GMT (UK)
The column heading is 'residence at time of marriage', it doesn't mean she was born there.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 02:28 GMT (UK)
Covid brain fog I didn't even see that bit but I'm sure I saw mellor as place of birth but could be wrong. Thanks
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 27 March 21 09:41 GMT (UK)
I've tried to look further for Sarah but nothing fits for an exact pick.....so on Ancestry I just put in Townsend and any event in Mellor Derbyshire.....

 No records BUT family trees for a Jane Townsend born 1838 in Lancashire to a mother Harriet born @ 1813 Wakefield Yorks. One of the trees shows a rogue name as a spouse for Jane of BURGESS. Jane marries William Roe Wigley in 1857. The treeshows a half sister Sarah .....named as Matherborn 1843

Mother Harriet married William Mather in 1844.

 Both Jane and Harriet are on census records living in Mellor.

In 1841 in Hyde Stockport Cheshire.
 Harriet Townsend 25 not born in county
 Jane.                   4 born in county.
HO 107/ 111/3

 Nothing concrete to go on but might be worth follow to see where the trails leads.........


  Tazzie
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 27 March 21 10:18 GMT (UK)
That looks interesting Tazzie especially with the name Burgess popping up.

Looks like William & Harriet have a daughter Elizabeth - with them in 1871 age 24. 

Elizabeth Mathers Jun 1846 Chapel En Le Frith mothers name Townend

Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 10:22 GMT (UK)
I will have a look at that
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 27 March 21 10:28 GMT (UK)
Long shot but birth for

Sarah Ann Mather Sep 1843 Wakefield Union mothers name Towns

Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 27 March 21 10:35 GMT (UK)
There are baptisms same day Aug 6 1854 for

Sarah Ann Mather born 2 Jan 1842 and

Harriet Mather born 8 Jul 1854

parents William & Harriet

so if we could find this family in 1851/1861 it might rule in or out this Sarah Ann.
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 10:39 GMT (UK)
I don't know if this is a possible Sarah Mather in the 1851 census.  Living here Longhurst Lane, Mellor, Hayfield, Derbyshire with her grandmother.

This is the same address for the 1861 census I found of Ann Spilsbury.

Registration District   Hayfield
Sub District   Hayfield
Enumeration District   6D
Schedule   75
Series   HO107
Piece number   2153
Folio   289
Page   22
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 27 March 21 10:57 GMT (UK)
 

 I had seen the census with grandmother but haven't got past that one.....
...there is a trail there though.


 Tazzie
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 27 March 21 11:04 GMT (UK)
  Found them in 1861.....ancestry has transcribed as MATTILA.

Living in Mellor Derbyshire.
  William 54 b Prescot Lancs
 Harriet 53 b Warfield! Yorks
SARAH A 18 HYDE CHESHIRE
SARAH J 17 b Marple Cheshire
Elizth 16 Chapel le firth Derbyshire
Nancy 11 Ashton under Lyme Lancs
Elizth 95 Prescot.

  Tazzie
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 27 March 21 11:11 GMT (UK)
 next door in 1861 is the Wigley family.......Jane married into the one....... Next family Spilsbury......

 I'm pleased with that :)I

 Tazzie
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 11:13 GMT (UK)
Tazzie - Could you give me the reference for the 1861 census?  Can't seem to find them on FindMyPast.
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 27 March 21 11:18 GMT (UK)
Hi

  RG9/2555 f 29 page 5.  Schedule number 28.

 Tazzie
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 11:23 GMT (UK)
So does it look like the same Sarah Ann townsend
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 11:29 GMT (UK)
Well I don't know what Find My Past were up to but they have transcribed that family as WORTH!

At the bottom of the list of names is Elizabeth Mathew, Mother, Widow.  So she was almost right.  However on the image she is in fact at the top of the next page where the name is slightly clearer.
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 11:38 GMT (UK)
What about this birth or has someone already mentioned it?

TOWNHEND, SARAH  ANN     - 
GRO Reference: 1843  M Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 19  Page 257

Added: Stockport covers Hyde
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 11:41 GMT (UK)
Don't know if I thought about Hyde as it is just down the road
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 27 March 21 11:44 GMT (UK)
Here's the best looking for 1851.....

 Ancestry has Mathew but as we know we are looking for Mather three what I read when I look at the original......looks like water damaged...

 William 44. B Prescot
 Harriet 44 b Huddersfield Yorks
 Jane  14 HYDE Cheshire
 Sarah A 8 HYDE Cheshire
 Elizabeth 4 Chapel is firth Derbyshire
 Nancy 3 months Ashton.

 Living Ashton under Lyme

 HO/107 p 2233 p 36 schedule 116


Tazzie
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 11:47 GMT (UK)
Is Mather the grandparents
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 12:16 GMT (UK)
Hmm, well if we are going on Hyde being in Stockport, there is this birth registration

MATHER, SARAH  ANN     - 
GRO Reference: 1842  D Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 19  Page 229

As you can see, no mother's maiden name.
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 27 March 21 12:17 GMT (UK)
Hi..... Not necessarily...

 We seemed to have found a connection to follow Sarah Ann Townsend having a mother Harriet who marries William Mather  after Sarahs birth. Sarah listed as daughter as is Jane by William on census but we cannot say for certain he was Sarah's father. The word / name Burgess on the marriage is the spanner in the works.
 Elizabeth aged 95 looks to be William Mathers mother..

 William Mather born 5th May bapt 7 th June Prescot St Mary
 Father Ralph mother Elizabeth.

 Tazzie
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 12:20 GMT (UK)
So what about the birth record I found on Reply#34?  Could that be worth following up?  Can't seem to find any baptism for that one.
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 12:23 GMT (UK)
Maybe the mother had been Harriet Townsend and married Mather in 44 but he wasn't Sarah's father
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 12:30 GMT (UK)
There is no marriage or death for a Sarah A Townhend between 1861 and 1881.
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 27 March 21 12:38 GMT (UK)
Hi.....

 The birth would be the one I would look at Townsend/ Townhend/Townshend.......we know mistranscriptions  occur the registrar would write it down and not question it.

 The fact she marries as Townsend shows she knows that William Mather is not her father......Jane married as Townsend also. They did not have to prove who father was and could have said William Mather and married as Sarah Ann Mather so they were honest.
 Nancy Mather married Cephas William Hartle but no sisters as witness would be great to find Sarah Webb as a witness to add to the facts.


Tazzie
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 13:05 GMT (UK)
I'm intrigued by the fact that I cannot find William Mather's marriage on Freebmd nor is it on the Lancashire BMD website under either surname.  It is on Family Search which is presumably where that information came from.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK2X-R9Z

Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 27 March 21 13:23 GMT (UK)
Freebmd has Harriet Townsend marriage  1844 Ashton vol 20 page 11
                 William Mather appears Ashton vol 20 but page 2 of another entry page 8.


 St Michael Ashton under Lyne 19 May 1844.

William Mather to Harriet Townsend. An entry on select marriages on Ancestry gives her mother as Bridget but no father........Williams father Ralph.

 Tazzie


Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 13:33 GMT (UK)
Oh right OK, it happens.

Re that 1843 birth for Townhend, this is what appears on the Cheshire BMD website.

TOWNHEND   Sarah Ann   TOWNHEND (MMN)   1842   Hyde   Tameside   HYD/8/35   

Although the GRO have it as MQ 1843, she may well have been born in the latter half of 1842.  If it was me I would be obtaining the birth cert to verify that her mother is Harriett, but it is up to blair etc to decide whether they wish to do that.
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 14:55 GMT (UK)
That is an idea will have a look at 1842. So it looks like Sarah's mother is Harriet and her grandmother is Bridget
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 20:23 GMT (UK)
Just found interesting detail of a photo of Harriet grave with another family but the person who added it is someone by the surname of burgess the same surname as Sarah's father
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 20:30 GMT (UK)
Oh, that's interesting.  Where did you find the photo?
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 20:41 GMT (UK)
On ancestry when I added Harriets name
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 20:46 GMT (UK)
That would suggest that someone else has Harriet in their tree then?
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 20:53 GMT (UK)
That was my line of thought. I am doing this for my wife's tree and she has an uncle who is a burgess
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: Girl Guide on Saturday 27 March 21 21:01 GMT (UK)
Has she?  Hmm, so that would suggest that the information found so far is on the right lines then.  You would at some point need to find the Burgess connection but no doubt that is a project for another time.
Title: Re: Sarah Ann townsend
Post by: blairandsoniataggart on Saturday 27 March 21 21:11 GMT (UK)
Tell me about it I have a few mystery on my late dad's side  and my mum's and still uncovering the side of the family that goes back to antiquity in the form of Roman emperors so it's all fun