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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: blairandsoniataggart on Friday 26 March 21 16:25 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am looking for more info on Sarah Ann townsend born 1843 in mellor Cheshire she died in 1871 in childbirth I think. She married a Charles William Webb
Thanks
Blair
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Is there anything in particular you are looking for
or are you looking for parents etc?
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Looking for parents. There are slot of Sarah Ann townsend but not the one I'm looking for
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I do not see any BMDs for the years mentioned or a marriage. Do you know where she died?
Colin
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What I could find she got married to Charles Webb in 1867 in hayfield
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Sarah Ann TOWNSEND m. Charles William WEBB July 29th 1867 in Glossop, Derbyshire.
I note that, in the space for 'Father's name and surname,' Buyess (sp?) is written and father's occupation is left blank. I'm assuming this means she was illegitimate? What does Buyess (?) mean in this context?
Queenie :)
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Was she 15 at death?
TOWNSEND, SARAH ANN age:15
GRO Reference: 1871 S Quarter in GLOUCESTER Volume 06A Page 177
This child died same time-frame/place:
TOWNSEND, JOHN HENRY 0
GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in GLOUCESTER Volume 06A Page 216
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Marriage was 1867 in Glossop Derbyshire.
Sarah Ann Townsend spinster aged 24 of Mellor father ( looks to read Burgess?)
Charles William Webb bac aged 26 of Mellor father John Webb.
So did mother to on to marry someone by the name of Burgess or never married but Sarah knew his surname.
Tazzie
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Sarah Ann TOWNSEND m. Charles William WEBB July 29th 1867 in Glossop, Derbyshire.
Queenie :)
So thats why I could not find it.
“MELLOR, a chapelry in the parish of Glossop, hundred of High Peak, county Derbyshire, now in the Greater Manchester area.
Colin
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burial 8 Feb 1871 age 28
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBX5-F8D
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All to possible she didn't know her mother and just knew her father, when she died Charles re married to a Nancy. I guess this will just end up being a mystery
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image of parish register for marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KB6N-N65
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This is her death registration on the GRO
WEBB, SARAH ANN 28
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in HAYFIELD Volume 07B Page 465
Hayfield is in Derbyshire and covers Mellor where she is supposed to have been born.
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Thank you all. This has helped
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All to possible she didn't know her mother and just knew her father,
No sign of her as a child on census with anyone?
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Maybe she was but surname different from Townsend or burgess
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Where has her birthplace Mellor come from? Or is it just her residence at time of marriage.
There is a Sarah A Townsend born 1843 Oldham Lancs on 1851/1861 census as granddaughter to Taylor family just in case that could be her.
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I've tried lots of things to try and find her on the 1851 and 1861 census but nothing coming up. I did find what appeared to be the witness Ann Jane Spilsbury living in Mellor in 1861. Born the same year as Sarah.
Living here with her parents and siblings Longhurst Lane, Mellor, Hayfield, Derbyshire
Registration district Hayfield
Archive reference RG09
Piece number 2555
Folio 31
Page 9
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On marriage certificate it lists mellor
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The column heading is 'residence at time of marriage', it doesn't mean she was born there.
Debra :)
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Covid brain fog I didn't even see that bit but I'm sure I saw mellor as place of birth but could be wrong. Thanks
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I've tried to look further for Sarah but nothing fits for an exact pick.....so on Ancestry I just put in Townsend and any event in Mellor Derbyshire.....
No records BUT family trees for a Jane Townsend born 1838 in Lancashire to a mother Harriet born @ 1813 Wakefield Yorks. One of the trees shows a rogue name as a spouse for Jane of BURGESS. Jane marries William Roe Wigley in 1857. The treeshows a half sister Sarah .....named as Matherborn 1843
Mother Harriet married William Mather in 1844.
Both Jane and Harriet are on census records living in Mellor.
In 1841 in Hyde Stockport Cheshire.
Harriet Townsend 25 not born in county
Jane. 4 born in county.
HO 107/ 111/3
Nothing concrete to go on but might be worth follow to see where the trails leads.........
Tazzie
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That looks interesting Tazzie especially with the name Burgess popping up.
Looks like William & Harriet have a daughter Elizabeth - with them in 1871 age 24.
Elizabeth Mathers Jun 1846 Chapel En Le Frith mothers name Townend
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I will have a look at that
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Long shot but birth for
Sarah Ann Mather Sep 1843 Wakefield Union mothers name Towns
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There are baptisms same day Aug 6 1854 for
Sarah Ann Mather born 2 Jan 1842 and
Harriet Mather born 8 Jul 1854
parents William & Harriet
so if we could find this family in 1851/1861 it might rule in or out this Sarah Ann.
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I don't know if this is a possible Sarah Mather in the 1851 census. Living here Longhurst Lane, Mellor, Hayfield, Derbyshire with her grandmother.
This is the same address for the 1861 census I found of Ann Spilsbury.
Registration District Hayfield
Sub District Hayfield
Enumeration District 6D
Schedule 75
Series HO107
Piece number 2153
Folio 289
Page 22
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I had seen the census with grandmother but haven't got past that one.....
...there is a trail there though.
Tazzie
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Found them in 1861.....ancestry has transcribed as MATTILA.
Living in Mellor Derbyshire.
William 54 b Prescot Lancs
Harriet 53 b Warfield! Yorks
SARAH A 18 HYDE CHESHIRE
SARAH J 17 b Marple Cheshire
Elizth 16 Chapel le firth Derbyshire
Nancy 11 Ashton under Lyme Lancs
Elizth 95 Prescot.
Tazzie
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next door in 1861 is the Wigley family.......Jane married into the one....... Next family Spilsbury......
I'm pleased with that :)I
Tazzie
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Tazzie - Could you give me the reference for the 1861 census? Can't seem to find them on FindMyPast.
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Hi
RG9/2555 f 29 page 5. Schedule number 28.
Tazzie
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So does it look like the same Sarah Ann townsend
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Well I don't know what Find My Past were up to but they have transcribed that family as WORTH!
At the bottom of the list of names is Elizabeth Mathew, Mother, Widow. So she was almost right. However on the image she is in fact at the top of the next page where the name is slightly clearer.
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What about this birth or has someone already mentioned it?
TOWNHEND, SARAH ANN -
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 19 Page 257
Added: Stockport covers Hyde
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Don't know if I thought about Hyde as it is just down the road
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Here's the best looking for 1851.....
Ancestry has Mathew but as we know we are looking for Mather three what I read when I look at the original......looks like water damaged...
William 44. B Prescot
Harriet 44 b Huddersfield Yorks
Jane 14 HYDE Cheshire
Sarah A 8 HYDE Cheshire
Elizabeth 4 Chapel is firth Derbyshire
Nancy 3 months Ashton.
Living Ashton under Lyme
HO/107 p 2233 p 36 schedule 116
Tazzie
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Is Mather the grandparents
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Hmm, well if we are going on Hyde being in Stockport, there is this birth registration
MATHER, SARAH ANN -
GRO Reference: 1842 D Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 19 Page 229
As you can see, no mother's maiden name.
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Hi..... Not necessarily...
We seemed to have found a connection to follow Sarah Ann Townsend having a mother Harriet who marries William Mather after Sarahs birth. Sarah listed as daughter as is Jane by William on census but we cannot say for certain he was Sarah's father. The word / name Burgess on the marriage is the spanner in the works.
Elizabeth aged 95 looks to be William Mathers mother..
William Mather born 5th May bapt 7 th June Prescot St Mary
Father Ralph mother Elizabeth.
Tazzie
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So what about the birth record I found on Reply#34? Could that be worth following up? Can't seem to find any baptism for that one.
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Maybe the mother had been Harriet Townsend and married Mather in 44 but he wasn't Sarah's father
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There is no marriage or death for a Sarah A Townhend between 1861 and 1881.
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Hi.....
The birth would be the one I would look at Townsend/ Townhend/Townshend.......we know mistranscriptions occur the registrar would write it down and not question it.
The fact she marries as Townsend shows she knows that William Mather is not her father......Jane married as Townsend also. They did not have to prove who father was and could have said William Mather and married as Sarah Ann Mather so they were honest.
Nancy Mather married Cephas William Hartle but no sisters as witness would be great to find Sarah Webb as a witness to add to the facts.
Tazzie
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I'm intrigued by the fact that I cannot find William Mather's marriage on Freebmd nor is it on the Lancashire BMD website under either surname. It is on Family Search which is presumably where that information came from.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NK2X-R9Z
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Freebmd has Harriet Townsend marriage 1844 Ashton vol 20 page 11
William Mather appears Ashton vol 20 but page 2 of another entry page 8.
St Michael Ashton under Lyne 19 May 1844.
William Mather to Harriet Townsend. An entry on select marriages on Ancestry gives her mother as Bridget but no father........Williams father Ralph.
Tazzie
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Oh right OK, it happens.
Re that 1843 birth for Townhend, this is what appears on the Cheshire BMD website.
TOWNHEND Sarah Ann TOWNHEND (MMN) 1842 Hyde Tameside HYD/8/35
Although the GRO have it as MQ 1843, she may well have been born in the latter half of 1842. If it was me I would be obtaining the birth cert to verify that her mother is Harriett, but it is up to blair etc to decide whether they wish to do that.
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That is an idea will have a look at 1842. So it looks like Sarah's mother is Harriet and her grandmother is Bridget
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Just found interesting detail of a photo of Harriet grave with another family but the person who added it is someone by the surname of burgess the same surname as Sarah's father
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Oh, that's interesting. Where did you find the photo?
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On ancestry when I added Harriets name
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That would suggest that someone else has Harriet in their tree then?
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That was my line of thought. I am doing this for my wife's tree and she has an uncle who is a burgess
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Has she? Hmm, so that would suggest that the information found so far is on the right lines then. You would at some point need to find the Burgess connection but no doubt that is a project for another time.
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Tell me about it I have a few mystery on my late dad's side and my mum's and still uncovering the side of the family that goes back to antiquity in the form of Roman emperors so it's all fun