RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: PedroDino on Monday 29 March 21 20:45 BST (UK)
-
Hey everyone!
I've been doing some family History for my Dad's side of the family and would love if there was any help in getting access to the military records of one of my ancestors.
Daniel McPhail B.1889 Govan, Glasgow
Joined the 26th Foot, Scottish rifles in 1907 with the service number 6491. Listed on his Attestation Papers are the names of his father (John McPhail) and his brothers Duncan and Collin. I would love to know if he served in the first world war and if so where he saw action.
He left the Army and moved to Greenisland, Co. Antrim, Northern Ireland in the 20's. In WW2 he was called up into the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers where he was a Serjeant and had the service number 24510. Sadly he died shortly after coming home in 1945 and is buried in Newtownabbey, if family stories are to be believed he may have lost an arm in the war? Again, I would love to know whether or not he saw action and where he saw action.
This seems like a great community and any help would be much appreciated and mean the world to my dad and his family.
-
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Service records for all personnel serving after 1920 are still with the MOD.
See: https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records
You'll need a Death Certificate, a Date of Birth OR a Service Number, and a fee of £30.
There is currently a long wait for records.
-
That's great to know! I didn't realise that the details were still being held by the MOD even though the serviceperson is long gone. Is there a similar source for First World War records? I am still VERY new to this whole family research thing lol.
-
Joined the 26th Foot, Scottish rifles in 1907 with the service number 6491
Served for 13 days in a militia battalion in 1907. Bought his discharge: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO96%2F0497%2F174%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO96%2F497%2F1318309
-
If he did lose an arm, it would seem it didn't stop him cutting the grass in front of his house with a scythe on the day he died or having recent to then been examined for a job at the railway. Both these were reported at an inquest into his death. No mention whether or not he only had one arm.
Apparently he was highly respected in Greenisland and his funeral at Carnmoney cemetery was attended by a large gathering of friends.
-
If he did lose an arm, it would seem it didn't stop him cutting the grass in front of his house with a scythe on the day he died or having recent to then been examined for a job at the railway. Both these were reported at an inquest into his death. No mention whether or not he only had one arm.
Apparently he was highly respected in Greenisland and his funeral at Carnmoney cemetery was attended by a large gathering of friends.
Wow! That's amazing, where did you find this?
Joined the 26th Foot, Scottish rifles in 1907 with the service number 6491
Served for 13 days in a militia battalion in 1907. Bought his discharge: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO96%2F0497%2F174%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO96%2F497%2F1318309
Why would someone serve for only 13 days? I am not familiar with buying a discharge either, why would someone do that? Also - let me know if it's not allowed, but I can't get access to that record you linked, would somone be able to send it to me?
-
Why would someone serve for only 13 days? I am not familiar with buying a discharge either, why would someone do that?
Presumably he had second thoughts about the militia commitment and bought himself out.
Oddly, when he attested (for 3 Battalion Scottish Rifles) he declared that he was serving with 1st Volunteer Battalion, HLI.
-
One of the public trees on Ancestry identifies your Daniel McPhail as a soldier who served in the Scottish Rifles, number 10290. From the Silver War Badge Roll, he enlisted in November 1908 and was discharged with wounds in July 1915. There is a surviving medical record which shows that he had been wounded in the left arm and leg. Fold 5 has a pension index card (which I haven't seen) which apparently records that he was residing in "Belfort".
-
PedroDino
Just in case you don't have here is his medal card.. 10290...
Good Luck with your research .
Regards
Mark W
Moderator Comment: Copyright image removed. Please see https://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php
-
An inquest was held as his death was sudden and unexpected (outcome - natural causes). The local newspapers of time reported on same.
-
One of the public trees on Ancestry identifies your Daniel McPhail as a soldier who served in the Scottish Rifles, number 10290. From the Silver War Badge Roll, he enlisted in November 1908 and was discharged with wounds in July 1915. There is a surviving medical record which shows that he had been wounded in the left arm and leg. Fold 5 has a pension index card (which I haven't seen) which apparently records that he was residing in "Belfort".
Amazing, so I guess he re-enlisted in 1908? Seeing as it is a different service number.
PedroDino
Just in case you don't have here is his medal card.. 10290...
Good Luck with your research .
Regards
Mark W
Mark, that is incredible - thank you so much.
An inquest was held as his death was sudden and unexpected (outcome - natural causes). The local newspapers of time reported on same.
That's very interesting, how would I get access to these newspapers? Or even begin to search?
-
An inquest was held as his death was sudden and unexpected (outcome - natural causes). The local newspapers of time reported on same.
That's very interesting, how would I get access to these newspapers? Or even begin to search?
Local newspapers can be found in the British Newspaper Archive or Irish News Archive. These are both subscription sites. FindMyPast also has access to BNA.
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
https://www.irishnewsarchive.com/
Try Belfast Telegraph, Belfast Newsletter, Northern Whig and others etc.....
KG
-
PedroDino
Your very welcome glad you liked. Based on his B Star date looks like he was in 2nd Battalion... as they landed in France on the 5th Nov...
see
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/cameronians-scottish-rifles/
and for very detailed look at WW1 national archives and you may be able to find date when awarded the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_War_Badge
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352484
for 1914 Nov. - 1918 Jan. Diary &
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353108
for 1918 Feb. - 1919 Apr.
£3.50 each... but worth it...
If in Glasgow there is also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameronians_War_Memorial
Originals are very old from in Scotland known as The Killing Times.. 1680's...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/26th_(Cameronian)_Regiment_of_Foot
Lastly since he past away in 1945 it might be worth while checking with the MOD as he might have not claimed his ww2 medals.. unlike ww1 which were issued without.. these had to be claimed. You can find the forms at this link.. I managed to get my great grandfathers this way..
https://www.gov.uk/apply-medal-or-veterans-badge/apply-for-a-medal
All the best
Regards
Mark W
-
One of the public trees on Ancestry identifies your Daniel McPhail as a soldier who served in the Scottish Rifles, number 10290
Bear in mind that we can't say for sure that this soldier is your Daniel McPhail. We don't know if the owner of that public tree has evidence of it or if it is just a guess.
If your man did serve in WW1 there is a chance that his papers are still with the MoD, linked with his WW2 file.
-
PedroDino
Your very welcome glad you liked. Based on his B Star date looks like he was in 2nd Battalion... as they landed in France on the 5th Nov...
see
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/cameronians-scottish-rifles/
and for very detailed look at WW1 national archives and you may be able to find date when awarded the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_War_Badge
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352484
for 1914 Nov. - 1918 Jan. Diary &
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353108
for 1918 Feb. - 1919 Apr.
£3.50 each... but worth it...
If in Glasgow there is also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameronians_War_Memorial
Originals are very old from in Scotland known as The Killing Times.. 1680's...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/26th_(Cameronian)_Regiment_of_Foot
Lastly since he past away in 1945 it might be worth while checking with the MOD as he might have not claimed his ww2 medals.. unlike ww1 which were issued without.. these had to be claimed. You can find the forms at this link.. I managed to get my great grandfathers this way..
https://www.gov.uk/apply-medal-or-veterans-badge/apply-for-a-medal
All the best
Regards
Mark W
Again, amazing, I can't thank you enough.
One of the public trees on Ancestry identifies your Daniel McPhail as a soldier who served in the Scottish Rifles, number 10290
Bear in mind that we can't say for sure that this soldier is your Daniel McPhail. We don't know if the owner of that public tree has evidence of it or if it is just a guess.
If your man did serve in WW1 there is a chance that his papers are still with the MoD, linked with his WW2 file.
So this IS him, I got the free 1 week Fold3 membership with ancestry and his pension letter has him residing in "Belfort" which when you actually look at it says Belfast - which is where he moved to!
You have all been a massive help guys, thank you so much :)