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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: HMac on Wednesday 31 March 21 19:52 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have a merchant navy crew list stating that Patrick Findlay spelt Fundlay in the document was a member of the crew of the Swedish ship TABERG torpedoed and sunk in 1941. The document only states his name, date and place of birth 12.7.1925, Glasgow. He was not a survivor and was only 16 years of age. I would be grateful if anyone could do better than me at finding any information on him or his family. I know the details of the sinking but have nothing on the lad and there is nothing in the MN records. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Regards
Hugh
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There's only one birth of a Patrick Findlay in 1925 in the Scottish birth indexes, Patrick McIntee Findlay, in Glasgow.
As it's less than 100 years ago, the birth certificate isn't available to view online. There are two options.
One is to order a copy of the certificate, cost £12. I have heard on the grapevine that even though it says on the web site that certificates are not available because of the pandemic, it may be possible to order one during working hours, but I cannot verify that.
The other is to get someone who is going to a Scotland's People Centre to transcribe the details for you. Thanks to Covid-19, this is not possible at the moment because all the centres are closed.
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Hi Hugh
You have certainly worked hard to try and find his details and those of the other men involved. I had a catch up read here http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/ss-taberg.81233/
As Forfarian mentions, hopefully when the SP centres re open, someone could kindly do a look up for you. Someone may recognise his details on here too and hopefully get in touch :)
Monica
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Daily Mirror June 14, 1941 (pg 6/7), carried a somewhat vague story (in that it didn't name the ship or the survivors), about a torpedoed Swedish ship,and 8 survivors in a lifeboat, in the Atlantic 100 miles from land. Apparently it pushed through the heavy swell of the sea with the aid of a makeshift sail (picture of same). It was spotted by a Sunderland Flying Boat which was unable to rescue them, but did drop off food, drink and smokesfor them.The men held out and were later rescued by an American destroyer on its way to Britain.
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Potential red herring, but I wonder if the couple of this marriage might have been grandparents, or depending on Mary's age, parents of the Patrick birth mentioned in reply #1:
FINDLAY
JAMES
MCINTEE
MARY
1899
644/7 339
Blythswood
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Added: Scotmum, got the red flash. I agree with your thoughts :)
I think there is a possible entry for grandparents, but I can't get closer so far.
A 38 yr old John Findlay, a labourer, married a 32 yr old Mary McIntee in Bridgeton, Glasgow (Roman Catholic marriage). Her parents were a Patrick McIntee and Catherine Kelly. His parents were James Findlay and Annie Berrie. Both sets of parents were deceased by the time of the marriage in 1899.
Not sure yet on their 1901 entry.
John deceased by 1913 when Mary McIntee remarried in Calton, Glasgow to a Hugh McCreadie.
Mary died in 1928 in Calton, Glasgow. A son James reported her death.
My thoughts are that one of her sons may have called a son of his Patrick McIntee Findlay in memory of his maternal grandfather.
Monica
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I think both Mary McIntee and John Findlay may have taken off some years off their registrations. With parents' names from their marriage:
Mary born in 1862 Glasgow www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQWC-891
John born in 1856 Glasgow www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQNN-FYH
This then fits with this 1891 entry. They weren't married until 1899 as we have, although showing as Mr & Mrs:
John Findlay 32 Casual Porter Hotel b. Glasgow
Mary Findlay 29 b. Glasgow
John Findlay 6 Son
Edward Findlay 4 Son
Address: 341 C Govan St, Glasgow/Hutchesontown
Still can't see them on the transcript I am looking for 1901.
Monica
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Got them now for 1901:
Mary Findlay 38 Head married Old Clother Dealer
John Findlay 15
Edward Findlay 16
Daniel Findlay 9
Mary Findlay 7
Annie Findlay10 Months
5 Boarders
Address: 53 Candleriggs, Glasgow/Blythswood
There must have been at least a son James later, who later reported his mother's death in 1928.
Hugh, this is all just potential background until you are able to confirm the details of the 1925 birth in Calton.
Monica
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Thank you all for taking the time to help - much appreciated and it gives me something to go on.
Monica, thank you for adding the thread from WW2Talk which gives the context of my search.
The CWGC have stated that I need evidence that they were British merchant seamen signed on in an official capacity - the document I have produced is not enough for them. I have more documents I received from Sweden last week but still to translate. In the meantime, if I can gather information on the individuals then I may try and go back to the CWGC.
Thanks again for your help.
Regards
Hugh
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I am hoping to visit New Register House not long after it reopens I would be only to pleased
to get any information on Patrick for you.
suzilad
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You are too kind. That would be great - thank you so much suzilad.
Regards
Hugh
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That is great, suzilad ;)
Please keep us up to date!
Monica
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Do you have a translator for the Swedish ? My sister lives there and may know someone
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Hi brigidmac,
No, I don't, if she could help me I would be very grateful, thank you.
Regards
Hugh
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Sister is too busy proof reading phD s
herself but will know a student with time on their hands
or a retiree who would do it for fun + cos it's a good cause
They have a Gothenburg Anglo Swedish society
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Hi Hugh
If you want I can do the translation. You can perhaps post them here.
Ian
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Hi Ian, thank you that is kind of you - the documents should be attached below. The first one is straightforward being a crew list signed by the Master who survived the sinking. The ticks next to the names are the survivors. The other two pages are a report along with those who died. Thank you once again for your help.
Regards
Hugh
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Before jamcat takes a look
I had a look for words I knew
And can read the sentence about a
South Westerly wind blowing clear but dark
My sister always said that if you read Scandinavian languages aloud with a Birmingham accent you could understand ! 😃 Only works for some words tho
Farty is journey
The outgoing ut
& From Glasgow to Heules
ingoing inn
Are probably self explanatory
Second page looks complicated.
Its a great document to have
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Hi
Nearly done. Will post tomorrow.
Ian
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Much appreciated - what great help on this thread thanks so much.
Regards
Hugh
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Here we go. If there are any questions just ask.
RESPECTFUL MEMORIAL
Ship: Steamship Taberg
Year built: 1920 of steel
Reg nr: 7956. Home port: Gothenburg
Tonage: 1391 gross registered
Captain: W.A.M. Möller
Crew, captain included: 21
Journey: from Glasgow to Huelva
Ballast: Water and stone
Report according to #40 of the maritime law: 17th July 1941
Maritime declaration: At the General Consulate in Lisbon 3rd July 1941 arrived at Kunglig Kollegium 17th July 1941
Expert: present
Ship's log extract: attached protocol
1. Sea incident
When: 6th June 1941 04.30 hrs
Place: 300 distance minutes west of Gibraltar.
Wind and weather: Light westerly wind with swell. Clear but dark.
Further observations: 6th June 1941 occurred a very violent explosion. It was supposedly an unknown U-boat which without warning fired a torpedo that hit nr 3 hatch. The deck was ripped open and the hatch doors were thrown high up into the air. The stern began to sink quickly and there was no time to put out the lifeboats. When the explosion occurred they blew the steam whistle to call the crew to the boats also to signal the convoy of their predicament. The ship, stern first, sank within 2 minutes and the men who were on deck jumped off and managed to swim to a raft. The captain, 1st mate, 1st and 2nd engineer, 1 able seaman and 1 greaser managed to save themselves. 2 men were heard shouting for help but because there was a lot of debris in the way there was no way of reaching them. Their cries for help soon disappeared. The men on the raft were rescued at 05.15 by a minesweeper and with another ship, looked for more survivors but none were to be found. The convoy continued with the survivors. The convoy's commander asked permission to further investigate the area in daylight and was granted. A plane also searched but gave nothing.
2. Reason for incident:
With the evidence provided can only be described as:
Torpedoed.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Thank you very much for this - it's great and saves me a lot of time.
I will send everything to the CWGC as soon as I can get some more info on Patrick and the others and hopefully they will be able to make a case for commemoration as merchant seamen but if not they may be able to go on the civillian register.
I can't thank you enough.
Regards
Hugh
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Cheers and you're welcome.
Ian
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Are you looking for any info on the other deceased seaman?
Ian
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Hi Ian,
I was mainly looking for the three British men - Findlay, Trigg and Mattey as they are uncommemorated British seamen lost on a foreign ship but as a Merchant Navy researcher I would be happy with any information about any of the crew of this ship. So anything at all you can add would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Regars
Hugh
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Ok. I'll take a wee look later on. No promises on finding anything though.
Ian
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I'll take a look only for the Scandinavian crew.
Ian
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Thank you!
Regards
Hugh
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Here is all I could find on the deceased from Scandinavia.
All the dates were correct except Folke Persson, he was born 1917.
John Hagström and Jan Lund:
https://minnehallen.no/skip/ds-taberg/?lang=en
Ian
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Karl Öhman:
Birth
Death
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Nils Lundberg:
Birth
Death
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Östen Linden:
Birth
Death
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Erik Henningsson:
Birth
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Folke Persson:
Birth
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Thank you, Ian, for your time I never expected to get so much. Any developments I will update on this thread.
Regards
Hugh
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Cheers again and you're welcome.
Ian
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What a great job you have done here, Ian ;)
Monica
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Thank you Monica.