RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: littlefacey on Friday 02 April 21 21:45 BST (UK)
-
Hi!
Could anyone help me locate this family in 1901? or any of their family members? All I have is the 1911 census, a marriage index ref for Robert and Eliza who were married in South Shields in 1898 and the birth certificate for their son Robert b. 1899
1911 census
23 Smithy Street
James Brown b.1875, Aberdeen, Scotland Occupation: Seaman Fireman
Eliza Brown b. 1879, South Shields
Henry Brown b. 1898, South Shields
Robert Brown b.1899
What I do know is Robert Brown Jnr. was born at 26 Walpole Street in 1899 but when I tried searching for this address in 1901 but no joy :-\
I see Robert James Brown was a Seaman so I'm guessing he could have been at sea?
Any help would be amazing! Thank you! ;D
-
FYI
Henry Brown was born Henry Brown Dawson.
-
Sorry no can't find any of them in 1901 :-\
-
25 Regent Quay, Aberdeen, Scotland,
Ephraim Howard, 56, Head, Fisherman, b Bramfield, Suffolk,
Mary Jane Howard, 63, Wife, b. Scarborough,
Harriet Howard, 25 Daughter, b. Scarborough,
Eliza Brown, 25, Visitor, b Shields,
Henry Brown, 3, Visitor, b Shields,
Robert Brown, 1, Visitor, b Shields.
Alan.
-
Thank you Alan!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
At least this confirms that Robert James Brown was more than likely from Aberdeen :)
I'm now hoping that I will be able to find Robert's birth cert! :)
-
So my plan backfired lol
Can anyone help me locate his birth? or maybe his death? I cant seem to find any Robert James Brown's anywhere :(
-
The Statutory Registers for Scotland show the registration of a Robert James Brown, born 1879, in Old Machar, Aberdeen. This could be your man.
-
I dont even know how i missed that ??? ???
-
So Robert James was listed as a Seaman on the 1911 census... is there anyway to find any records of this? I want to confirm if the above-mentioned birth record is the correct one for him and was hoping there might be some sort of clue on a seamans record? Im guessing he was at sea in 1901 which is why he wasn't with his family.
-
Also on their son, Robert's, birth certificate in 1899 he is listed as being born at 26 Walpole Street, South Sheilds but I cant seem to find the address in census records?
-
As you have the marriage cert for Robert, comparing the info on that (for his father's name and occupation) may help to confirm the info on the birth cert.
Boo
-
Unfortunately i dont have a copy of the marriage certificate only the date I found on FindMyPast. :-\
-
So what is it you found on Find My Past? (you did say it was a marriage cert in your original post)
The only marriage I can find for an Eliza Dawson in 1898 on the South Tyneside Registrars search
is to a JAMES Brown (not Robert James) they married on 22 Jun 1898 and appear in register C G6.
The South Tyneside church codes show that marriage was at Holy Trinity
Boo
-
Ah sorry meant to put marriage record! Thats the one I found, he went by the name of James Brown same as the 1911 census.
Can I ask where you got the date from? as I can only find the index.
-
South Tyneside Registrars search
https://www.southtyneside.gov.uk/article/34814/Search-births-deaths-and-marriages-records
Search the database and when you find the entry and have the code for the register go back to the main page (above) and click on marriage indexes to see the list of church codes.
Though I am confused, if 'all you had' was the 1911 census and what I assume is the GRO index ref for the marriage where he's listed as James, how do you know he was Robert James?
Boo
-
Sorry I completely messed up my original post.. i should have put I have a marriage index and birth certificate.
I have the birth certificate of Robert Brown the son of Eliza and Robert James.
It states he was born at 26 Walpole Street, South Shields to Robert James Brown and Eliza Dawson.
-
Okay, I understand now. and I know certs are expensive but if you are happy that this marriage in 1898 is the right one, then the good news is :
Durham Record Office have the registers for Holy Trinity and they do a 'quick search' service online, whereby you ask for a record from a parish register at a cost of £5 (payable online and cheaper than a paper cert from the GRO) and they email you a copy of that image from their microfilm of the parish register. That will tell you his father's name (if known) and from there you can see if you can find the family in earlier census returns to perhaps get a more specific birth place and year.
If you are in the area you can, of course, visit the local archives to view the image for free - once things start to re-open that is.
Boo
-
Oh fantastic! I was going to order a PDF marriage cert from GRO but didn't realise they only did paper copies and at the mo its too expensive :-\
Im doing this for a friend so I think I'm going to ask her if I can view the actual birth cert to double check everything she said is correct then order the marriage cert :)
-
Be aware that though they are still taking orders, given the current situation is may take longer to get the image.
If you and your friend are prepared to wait till the archives at Tyne and Wear, Durham and the local history centre at South Shields re-open then a request in RC for a look up may result in someone checking the register if someone is visiting one of those.
Boo
-
Thank you for all your help! :)
-
Oh my god after all of that the father IS listed as James on his son's birth cert NOT Robert James as she had previously said :o
-
:-) so that 'may' show your friend why the rule we use is to refer to what the original record actually says (even with the caveat that it may, or may not be correct).
Anyone can take a wrong turn at one time or another because we make assumptions without looking at the actual wording.
We 'all' have to learn though, and no harm done but it does mean that the marriage record for James and Eliza should give us more to work on once we know who their reputed fathers may have been.
Boo
-
I have a few credits. Robert James Brown born 16 Jun 1879 Caledonia Place, Aberdeen s/o Alexander Brown, master clothier and Jane S (can's read it clearly) Shinnie. They married 1 Jun 1875 in Old Machar.
On the parents marriage in Old Machar, Aberdeen at the Free Church of Scotland:
Alexander Brown, 32, bach, master clothier, s/o George Brown, merchant, deceased and Margaret Forbes, deceased
Jane S. Shinnie, 22, spinster, d/o James Shinnie, coal trimmer, deceased and Elizabeth Lister
Wits: George Brown and Robert Shinnie
Janis
-
Thank you 2zpool but i am now only looking for a James Brown rather than Robert James Brown as the information I was provided was incorrect :-\
I obtained a copy of the birth cert so I can study it myself :)
-
It would help if you modify your original post and subject so no-one else searches for the wrong name
- please mark it as an edit or the subsequent posts will look crazy :-)
Boo
-
It would help if you modify your original post and subject so no-one else searches for the wrong name
- please mark it as an edit or the subsequent posts will look crazy :-)
Boo
It wont let me modify the original message as it's been more than 24 hours but I have contacted a moderator so hopefully they can help.
-
So i have this snippet on the 1901 census but wasn't sure if Eliza is listed as sister or visitor? I think it may be the latter but still wanted other opinions :)
-
Visitor,
too many letters for Sister,
the first letter doesn't look the the other instances of S on the page
her children are 'dittoed' as the same relationship
Given the ages of the head of the household and his wife, they are unlikely to have a sister who is approx 30 years younger.
Boo
-
I have now obtained the marriage cert of James Brown and Eliza Dawson (at last!!) and I thought from this I would be able to locate James's family quicker... boy I was wrong lol
Can anyone help me find James's father, Robert and any other family members?