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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Moray (Elginshire) => Topic started by: Craigellachie2019 on Monday 05 April 21 03:11 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone
I have a James Stewart born about 1820 (died 1897) in my tree whose parents on his death cert are listed as John Stewart and Christina Baikie. I cannot find any marriage between John and Christina and cannot find any births of children. I realise death cert details are only as good as the person's knowledge giving the information - which was James' son, but I am hoping someone may be able to help as I am hoping maybe John may be a closer relation than presently being shown in my tree. John's tee name is 'Loll'. I can find 4 other people with 'Loll' tee names but no-one close to the dates I am looking at and no trees of any help either.
Hoping someone may be able to help.
Anne
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Duplicate post on the Banffshire board
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=847035.msg7141589#msg7141589
No mention of any connection to either county in your posts
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The first thing to find out is where he was born. Looking for a James Stewart in the census is a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack. Whom did James Stewart marry and what were the names of his children in order of birth?
Where did he die?
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LIBINDX http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp mentions James 'Loll' Stewart and Christian Baikie.
There is a document in the Moray Local Heritage Centre Lossie Fisher Folk by Donald Stewart, published 1996. Part 1 contains information about their descendants.
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The only James Stewart death in Moray in 1897 was aged 73 so birthyear 1823/24. A James Stuart aged 70 also died 1897
No death in Banff in 1897
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There is an 1891 entry for a James Stewart married to Charlotte & born Knockando 1822. occ Mason
Is this the person you are researching? If so - you already have his birthplace
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In 1881 there's a James Stewart, 59, fisherman, born Lossiemouth, with wife Margaret and three sons. But I can't find him in 1891.
He sounds more likely to be a descendant of Lossie fisher folk than a mason from Knockando.
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Hi Forfarian - thank you for your replies. Yes I had found that 1881 census too. Says he was born in Lossie. He was married to Margaret McLeod. He died in Seatown, Lossie on 12 March 1897 and that's where his parents are noted. I opened the Libindx site you attached and saw the reference. I have tried searching for a Christina Stewart death nee Baikie and a Christina anything really but haven't had much luck. I know its a bit rich to wish for - but it would be lovely if parents named were both mentioned on deaths etc after 1855. Mother's maiden names aren't help at all, particularly as you say when you have the likelihood of scores of people with the same name born around the same time in roughly the same area.
Anne
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I know its a bit rich to wish for - but it would be lovely if parents named were both mentioned on deaths etc after 1855.
Generally speaking the full names of the deceased's parents are included on a post-1855 death certificate, including the mother's maiden surname. Provided, of course, that the informant knew that information.
Mother's maiden names aren't help at all.
I don't understand why you think they are not?
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What occupation do you see for James STEWART, died 1897. What occupation do you see for father John.
Can you describe the family of James STEWART (died 1897) and Margaret McLEOD.
When and where did they marry?
What names, birthplace, birth dates do you have for these children.
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Forfarian, sorry - I should have explained more clearly. When you are trying to narrow down which particular person's death cert you are looking for after 1855 - eg - I am online now with Scotlandspeople and there are 24 pages of Christina Stewart deaths - just showing her mother's maiden name - which if I knew - would be easy. I narrowed it down to Moray - 7 entries - but what if she moved? Still the same problem 4 mother's maiden names - 3 blank ones. But actually - none of the ages fit anyway. I was being more general with more response before.
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I have had a look in the 1841 census, and there is no Chris* St*art in Drainie. There are only two in Moray. One is too young (23) and the other, though old enough (45) is in Cromdale, which is about as far as you can get from Lossiemouth and still be in Moray.
There is a Christina Beakey in Lossiemouth, but she's listed as 25 so can't be your Christina Baikie.
I did the same search in 1851, and there is no possible candidate for your Christina. (The one who was 45 in 1841 was 49 in 1851, still in Cromdale, and unmarried.)
I also searched for a death of Chris* St*art, other surname Ba*k*, and the only result was one aged 43 in 1882 in Dalkeith, who is obviously not the right person.
So I infer that Christina Baikie died before the 1841 census.
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Hi Wivenhoe
On James death cert in 1897 he is described as a fisherman. His father John deceased is also described as a fisherman. In the 1881 census James is described as a fisherman. A James Stuart married Marg. McLeod on 13 Oct 1820 at Drainie but this can't be my couple according to his age at death and age on the 1881 census. However that is the only marriage I can find. Their first child was born 24 July 1848 at Drainie, Moray, Scotland.
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On the other hand, there is a marriage of a John Stuart to a Margaret Baikie in Drainie in 1815, and they had two recorded children, John in 1816 and Jean in 1818. Could Christina be a mistake, and James' mother was actually Margaret? It would surely be quite a coincidence if two John St*rts both married Baikies in Drainie within a decade?
There is a household in Lossiemouth in 1841 consisting of
John Stewart, 45
Margaret Beakey, 45
Jane Stewart, 25
James Stewart, 20
Janet Stewart, 15
Christian Beakey, 25
In 1851 there are
John Stuart, 50, fisherman
Margaret Stuart, wife, 58
Jane Stuart, daughter, 19
Ann Farquhar, visitor, 11
In 1861
John Stewart, 66, fisherman
Margaret Stewart, 72
Margaret McLeod, 8
Margaret Stewart, widow of John Stewart, fisherman, died in 1870 aged 89. Parents James Bakie, fisherman, mother Christina Bakie, maiden surname Crocket. Registered by James Stewart, son, fisherman, Lossiemouth. Since I've paid for the certificate there's no point in you using your credits to view it - PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send it to you.
John Stewart, 67, died in Lossiemouth in 1863. I haven't looked at that death certificate but I think if you look at that and is says he was married to Margaret Baikie, you might have your answer.
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On the death certificate, 1897 -
Who is the informant?
Is there an address for place of death?
Is the dead man a widower?
Finding James STEWART, census 1881 is a challenge.
".. In the 1881 census James is described as a fisherman"
Can you give details for this census entry, 1881. Names, ages, occupation, birthplace for everyone.
What other BDM certificates do you have for these people you are researching?
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Forfarian - snap - I was about to ask you the same thing. I just found their marriage on Scotlandspeople in 1815 too. I decided to look for any Stewart/Stuart, James who married in Moray prior to mid 1825 with a wife's name that was similar. I had found an 1841 census with Marg Beakey in it too so that gave me the idea, then saw your answer. Wow thank you. I think we may have found the mystery. I will take this further. Thank you for the extra census details too. Actually - just revisiting your 1841 census which shows a Christian Beakey aged 25 (mine on Freecen hadn't shown her). Interesting.
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Forfarian - snap - I was about to ask you the same thing. I just found their marriage on Scotlandspeople in 1815 too. I decided to look for any Stewart/Stuart, James who married in Moray prior to mid 1825 with a wife's name that was similar. I had found an 1841 census with Marg Beakey in it too so that gave me the idea, then saw your answer. Wow thank you. I think we may have found the mystery. I will take this further. Thank you for the extra census details too. Actually - just revisiting your 1841 census which shows a Christian Beakey aged 25 (mine on Freecen hadn't shown her). Interesting.
Yes, I looked first on FreeCEN and it shows Christina Beakey as a single-person household. Then I looked at FindMyPast and it shows her in the same household as Margaret Beakey. You'll need to view the original to check which is correct.
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Children of James Beckie (another spelling variant!) and Christian Crocket(t), married 30 June 1785
James, baptised 22 May 1786
Margaret, baptised 26 April 1788
John, baptised 27 December 1790
Jean, bapstied 14 December 1792
All in Drainie.
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Wivenhoe, James death was notified by his son George who I have in my tree. James is described as a widower of Margaret McLeod. In the 1881 census James, 59 sons Alexander 23, William 21, George 16 are all fishermen living at Seatown Drainie, Moray. Margaret is 57, wife. All members of the Stewart family on that census were born in Lossiemouth. I have the 1890 death cert of Margaret Stewart nee McLeod and she died at Seatown Lossiemouth, the informant being her husband James. I have an Ancestry Record - Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 showing the birth of their son James Stewart 24 Jul 1858 to James Stewart and Margaret MacLeod. Also their son John same Ancestry record search born 25 Dec 1852 to James Stewart and Margaret MacLeod, but I also have the Scotlandspeople cert of the marriage of John Stewart and Elizabeth McLeod showing his parents as James Stewart and Margaret McLeod and his home in 1876 is Lossiemouth. I have the same Ancestry record search for Alexander Stewart born 5 May 1858 in Drainie to James Stewart and Margaret McLeod. I also have a marriage of William Stewart in 1885 aged 25 to Elspet Stewart showing his parents as Jame Stewart and Margaret McLeod. Also Lossiemouth marriage and the Ancestry Scotland births record of his birth on 3 Sep 1860. Lastly their son George Stewart - same Ancestry birth record 24 Dec 1865 - Drainie, Moray. I also have George's marriage to Jessie Sutherland in 1890 showing his parents as James Stewart and Maggie McLeod. In 1890 James is still alive. Maggie is deceased.
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Make sure that you check all the Ancestry 'records' by looking at the originals on Scotland's People. They may be accurate index listings, but you cannot be sure until you have seen the originals.
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Thank you Forfarian. I have a list of things to purchase now from Scotlandspeople and no doubt that will lead to more. Interesting with Crocket. My 3rd gr grandfather John Stewart married Janet Crockett. Her father was William born about 1773 who married Janet Young. I am likely to find the James Stewart and Margaret McLeod who are in-laws of cousins x time removed etc - will end up being actual blood relations the way this is going. You have helped me quite a few times over the many years here. I'm not sure if you knew I actually made it over to beautiful Scotland in 2019 and spent a week in Moray with a 2nd cousin met through ancestry searching and this site. Beautiful area. Wish I had done it when I was younger. May never have left.
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I did wonder fleetingly if the 8-year-old Margaret McLeod in the 1861 census was James' future wife. But she is much too young.
Glad you made it over here - you should have dropped in for a coffee :)
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Thank you Forfarian - that would have been lovely. I am not sure where you are but I drove into Scotland at Gretna Green, up to Glasgow, Bannockburn, Glamis, Forfar, Brechin, Dunnotar Castle near STonehaven, over to Aberlour, all the fishing towns from Nairn around to Cullen, Elgin (of course), Aberlour, Cairngorms, Carr Bridge, Culloden, Inverness, Rosskeen, over to Big Sands, Inverewe Gardens, just over the bridge to Skye, Eilean Donan Castle, Loch Ness, Loch Lomond, Glencoe, Troon, Falkirk, Edinburgh, Dunfermline, South Queensferry. 3 weeks. Maybe next time? I spent time with a lovely DNA match - we are still trying to find our common connection but probably is Moray/Banff/Nairn area with my father's Stewart side. Also a lot of time with 3 2nd cousins found through my searching about 8 years ago. We had been corresponding and phoning. Lovely to meet and spend time in person.
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That's quite a good tour for 3 weeks. You passed within 5 minutes' drive of the house I grew up in, the one I lived in when I had my first job, the two I lived in when I had my second job, the one I lived in when I had my third job, and the one I live in now :)
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It's an awful shame I missed you. Maybe next time :)