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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: louisa maud on Tuesday 06 April 21 10:55 BST (UK)
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I am not sure where to put this but I am looking possibly for Jewish records circa 1815
Moses (aka Joseph) Myers married Sarah ? circa 1815, they were Jewish so I am assuming it would have been a synagogue marriage
Moses was born in Amsterdam and Sarah in London, they had 5 children some born in Amsterdam and some in England, oldest child shown as 25 on 1841 so marriage circa 1815
Moses and Sarah lived in England and I have found them on census till their death so I am not looking for anything from 1841 onwards
Thank you in anticipation
Louisa Maud
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Louisa, Have you looked on family search in the Netherlands. There are a few possibles there - but to know if they are worth exploring, you would need to know more about his occupation and names of first children, which you have not posted.
Here is an example - this man was a merchant so might have moved countries for work.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLMV-YD1D
His name would be anglicised when in London.
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Many thanks Neale, will check it out
Moses seemed to be in fashion, one of his family was in the furrier, he was also known as Joseph which I am led to believe is common in the Jewish families
I am assuming they married in London and he took his wife to Amsterdam to return to England by 1841
Thank you
Louisa Maud
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1841
Hi Street Shadwell
Moses Myers 50 born Amsterdam, can't read occ, but by 1848 he is a tailor
Sarah 50 England
Isaac 25 Amsterdam
Eva 20 Amsterdam
Elizabeth 15 England born St George's married Thomas Wallace, then Robinson
Kate 15 England
Julia15 England
No these are not triplets 1841 rounding up
Louisa Maud
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1841
Hi Street Shadwell
Moses Myers 50 born Amsterdam, can't read occ, but by 1848 he is a tailor
Sarah 50 England
Isaac 25 Amsterdam
Eva 20 Amsterdam
Elizabeth 15 England born St George's married Thomas Wallace, then Robinson
Kate 15 England
Julia15 England
No these are not triplets 1841 rounding up
Louisa Maud
Ages on 1841 census were rounded DOWN ;D
So, the girls were aged between 15 and 19.
Another site you could look at would be www.wiewaseie.nl www.wiewaswie.nl (who was who :D).
Searches available in English.
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The link given above won't work as it should be WieWasWie.
Here's a link to the English version of the the webpage:
https://www.wiewaswie.nl/en/ (https://www.wiewaswie.nl/en/)
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One RootsChat member has the transcripts of the Bevis Marks (Spanish & Portuguese) synagogue records from London, which may help you with the marriage. Many Jews who came to London from the Netherlands were originally Sephardi. Perhaps they will see this thread.
If searching Dutch records, you may need to use the spelling Meijers (and variants).
Also try this site ... https://www.dutchjewry.org/
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Bookbox - that's a fascinating site! As well as the suggestion of looking for Meijers as well as Myers, it looks like you should include the spelling Mozes in your search. Couldn't see anything for the correct period though...
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Hello Louisa,
Have you seen the family tree on ancestry?
Although I would never assume that such trees are factually correct, it's not a bad place to start. Furthermore, the tree owner is a "phyman", who may well be a descendent of Kate Myers who married Abrahan Hyman in 1848.
The tree reports:
Moses son of Asher Meyers, d. 22 Dec 1863 Emanuel Almshouse, Wapping
Sarah daughter of Shmuel Cohen, d. 27 Mar 1876 Emanuel Almshouse, Wapping, bur. West Ham Cemetery
I've just searched through the Dutch records, but couldn't find any clear matches. But I may have missed something in my eagerness to reply.
Their gravestones would reveal their full patronymic Hebrew names. I'll check some of my other sources.
[Update: Moses was also buried in the West Ham Cemetery. Contact details http://iajgscemetery.org/british-isles/london/west-ham-cemetery (http://iajgscemetery.org/british-isles/london/west-ham-cemetery)]
What makes you think that he has also known as Joseph?
Justin
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The link given above won't work as it should be WieWasWie.
Here's a link to the English version of the the webpage:
https://www.wiewaswie.nl/en/ (https://www.wiewaswie.nl/en/)
Het spijt me!
Now corrected.
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Thank you for your replies, am following them up but no joy on the sites given, the family tree shows he is buried in West Ham I think
Louisa Maud
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The burial database of the United Synagogue includes his burial, but not that of Sarah, unless 1876 is wrong.
See here https://www.theus.org.uk/category/find-grave
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The Hebrew records of London's New Synagogue (founded in 1760!!!) include the following marriage in 1813:
Moshe son of Asher Potiboich(?) and Sara-Chaya daughter of Shmuel ha-Kohn
The meaning/significance of Potiboich is not understood. It has simply been transliterated/romanised from the original record.
This matches the information in phyman's family tree on ancestry. Indeed, it may have been the source. It is therefore all the more important to establish Moses' and Sara's full Hebrew names either from the gravestones (if they still exist) or from the burial register.
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Oh that is a good find, thank you, her surname was Cohen shown on Ancestry but as we know their names change, Kohn is near enough that marriage date would be about right according to birth dates on 1841
One of his daughters "married out" and that is the line I am following
I believe Moses (Joseph) died after 1861 as he is listed with his wife Sarah and daughter Eva on 1861 but not on 1871 , she is a widow by then
To back track, Moses daughter Elizabeth married Thomas Wallace in St Johns Waterloo 1848, he is shown as Moses occupation tailor, Elizabeth married as a widow in 1866 to Richard Robinson her father is shown as Joseph Myers a tailor, so this is why I believe he used both christian names, at the moment I don't have much of a clue as to who the witnesses were but if she "married out" then perhaps they were friends
Thank you
Louisa Maud
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The marriage record was in Hebrew. Ha-Kohn (הכהן) is the Jewish title meaning "the priest", it was not a surname, but Samuel clearly adopted the anglicised form Cohen.
The United Synagogue Burial Office has informed me that there are no surviving burial registers for the West Ham cemetery. That's a bit of a blow. I have one other contact at the US who has taken photos of gravestones for me in the past. I'll ask him if he'll be visiting the cemetery anytime soon.
Or do you happen to live nearby?
If you have an ancestry subscription, you could contact the owner of the family tree which shows that Moses was the son of Asher (see http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qiq/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qiq/)) and ask about the source.
It's strange that Elizabeth's father was recorded as Joseph on her second marriage certificate. For the marriages of her siblings (Isaac Michael (1841), Eve (1861)and Catherine (1848)), the father was consistently recorded as Moses. Moreover, when Elizabeth was finally baptised as an adult on 4th Apr 1869, she said her parents were Moses and Sarah (see http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qir/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qir/)).
I would speculate that the entry on the 1866 cert is a simple mistake that Elizabeth was unaware of as she was presumably illiterate, i.e. she couldn't sign her name.
Moses died on 22 Dec 1863 and was buried in the West Ham cemetery on the 24th.
Justin
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I can't remember where but somewhere I have seen Moses Myers KA Joseph but I did not write it down,
Thank you Justin, while I live in Essex I am not near enough to visit
Huge thank you for info
LM
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Thank you for help received and now a calling this " completed "
Louisa Maud
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Moses Myers was born as Mozes Asser Myers Nikkelsburg in 1787 in Amsterdam, son of Asser / Marcus Meyer Nikkelsburg, so when he came to England he took the surname Myers.
Moses Myers is definately buried in West Ham Jewish Cemetary as is his son Isaac Michael Myers and Michael's wife Caroline nee Aaron, I believe the cemetary has an open weekend for the public once a year or so. My sister found all the graves except for Moses that was in an area that was overgrown with plants etc.
Moses Myers's daughter Elizabeth is of interest to me too; I have been trying to find information about Elizabeth's husband T. Wallace but to no avail, only the marriage cert in 1848
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Regarding Moses Myers ( Nikkelsburg ) his family in Amsterdam,Holland goes back until the early 18th century.
We believe he came over from Holland, with his wife Sarah and two eldest children Isaac Michael and Eva, on a fishing boat . There is also some information about Sarah myers on the old bailey web site regarding forgery of a cheque paid to them at their slop shop in Shadwell, think the year is about 1842, Moses is quoted as being a lead pencil maker.
.Elizabeth was definately outcast by her family but I believe one of the sisters did help her at times for example Elizabeth Myers in the 1851 census she is down as Elizabeth Walls living in the same street as her sister Katherine (Hyman) and family. Elizabeth maybe had a strong Yiddish accent and the transcriber heard Walls instead of Wallace, maybe as on her second marriage certificate they heard Joseph instead of Moses.
I believe Elizabeth was also a couple of times in the workhouse as a pauper with her children with husband away at sea.
I have found no death record of Elizabeth as of yet but in the 1871 Census she is down as living in Limehouse Stepney Middlesex at the same address as her daughter Elizabeth ( wallace ) and husband John Clark.
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Did Elizabeth marry for the second time ?
LM
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Yes, she married a second time to Richard Robinson in in 1866.