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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: LMChapman on Tuesday 06 April 21 16:46 BST (UK)
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I've found a Roman Catholic baptism record for someone born illegitimate in 1905 which states that the father was 'William Fraser as the mother says'. The trouble is the mother is also a Fraser and has a brother named William, and both of them live in the family home in 1901 and 1911.
They lived in a small parish and my census searches for more men of this name in the area do not offer as many other options as I'd like!
It's probably not an incestuous birth, but does anyone have any advice on how I could rule this out more definitively?
It seems very unlikely to me that she would have had the child baptised and actually named her brother as the father right?!
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Are you talking about the one baptised in Aberdeen?
If so, its states his father was William Fraser and mother Jane Reid; Godfather was Adam Reid and Godmother Mrs. Duncan. Btw...the fist column lists Legitimacy their line says "Legit."
If the "actual" (not a transcription) census entry from Scotland's People states William Sr as her brother then the enumerator made an error.
Don
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No that's not the person I'm talking about. I don't want to share any more details as it's not my family. The baptism is not on ScotlandsPeople.
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I've found a Roman Catholic baptism record for someone born illegitimate in 1905 which states that the father was 'William Fraser as the mother says'. The trouble is the mother is also a Fraser and has a brother named William, and both of them live in the family home in 1901 and 1911.
They lived in a small parish and my census searches for more men of this name in the area do not offer as many other options as I'd like!
It's probably not an incestuous birth, but does anyone have any advice on how I could rule this out more definitively?
It seems very unlikely to me that she would have had the child baptised and actually named her brother as the father right?!
Have you had a look at newspaper reports? Not necessarily about the (potential) incest, but to see whether there was another William Fraser in the right area at the right time? 1905 is obviously bang in the middle of 2 censuses and so it could well be that a WF moved into the area in 1903 and left in 1907 (for example) and so wouldn't appear on a census.
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I'll give that a try, thanks.
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Is the father's area of residence & occ. given e.g. Fisherman which would be a reason for not appearing on census records as he was probably out on a boat?
Annie
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I wonder ...
Pre WWI... Scotland ... perhaps the R.C. priest was Irish ....
I explain .... in New South Wales Australia, for most of 20th century, many/most R.C. parish priests were Irish or Irish trained .... so they were not familiar with Australian accents.
And until the 1960s, most denominations used Thou and Thy rather that You and Your.
So if the Priest in Scotland back in the 1900s asked the baby's mum "who is the father" would she hear it as "who is THY father" .. yes, quite possibly, and thereby be unaware that her answer was recorded as perhaps naming her baby's father and for 21st eyes to consider a taboo relationship.
JM
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"William Fraser as the mother says" is somewhat weak for a priest to write if it is a case of incest. You would expect a bit more fulmination.
Have you looked at the actual birth certificate to see what it says?
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Is the father's area of residence & occ. given e.g. Fisherman which would be a reason for not appearing on census records as he was probably out on a boat?
Annie
No annoyingly neither occ or residence is given. Looking at the rest of the page's entries the lawful children's father's occupations are given but when it's a 'mother claims this is the father situation' no extra info is given for the father.
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I wonder ...
Pre WWI... Scotland ... perhaps the R.C. priest was Irish ....
I explain .... in New South Wales Australia, for most of 20th century, many/most R.C. parish priests were Irish or Irish trained .... so they were not familiar with Australian accents.
And until the 1960s, most denominations used Thou and Thy rather that You and Your.
So if the Priest in Scotland back in the 1900s asked the baby's mum "who is the father" would she hear it as "who is THY father" .. yes, quite possibly, and thereby be unaware that her answer was recorded as perhaps naming her baby's father and for 21st eyes to consider a taboo relationship.
JM
Interesting, but I do know her father wasn't called William.
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"William Fraser as the mother says" is somewhat weak for a priest to write if it is a case of incest. You would expect a bit more fulmination.
Have you looked at the actual birth certificate to see what it says?
Yes, I would certainly think there would be more comment than just that! 'As the mother says' seems to be this recorders standard phrasing for uncertain paternity. The birth certificate just says Illegitimate and gives no father.
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Sounds like a case of the child being that of a married man, possibly named William which is a coincidence with the brother being named William or his surname was Fraser but named for her brother?
Annie