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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: Vixen999 on Wednesday 07 April 21 21:57 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone, Im a little stuck with a friends family tree with two people. Any help anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Frank French was born Oct 1858, Lewes, sussex. It appears I can only find information of his potential mother Ann French. I do know from information from the friend, he was born brighton/lewes but thats as much as she knew. His mmn is not on his birth registration. Frank married a Frances Emily Turner who is another enigma Im struggling to work out. Frank had 9 children that I can find, one of whom is Winifred Emily French who is the great grandmother of the person Im doing the tree for. Her mothers mmn is turner. Frank French does not have a middle name on his birth record. However a Frances Emily Turner married a frank francis french 1906, eastbourne. I do know many of the relatives around this time of the person Im doing the tree for came from Eastbourne, or surrounding towns. I cant find a birth record of a frank francis french. However, I did find two birth records for a Frederick French, one born eastbourne 1856, one born brighton 1857. On the 1911 census, frank claims to have been born Brighton but his birth year changes from 1858 to 1963. Lewes is close to brighton. But there is also a Frederick French born brighton.
Im slightly confused with the marriage record being for a Frank Francis French to a Francis Emily Turner and now am wondering if Ann was franks mother. If she was, Ann French was born to a James French and Margaret Vaughan. And again struggling for information on those parents.
Francis Emily Turner is also confusing me. She claims on the 1911 census to be from Selmeston, Sussex born 1871/2 and is down as Emily. On the 1911 census Winifred Emily French is listed. So I know Frank and Francis Emily are the correct parents for winifred. There is an 1891 census which has a Francis Turner born selmeston. I cant find a birth record. Also the only birth record I can find for a francis emily turner, doesnt come from Selmeston but from Dorset. Any help working emily out would be appreciated including potential parents or siblings please.
Thanks all, hope this hasnt confused you too much
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Frank married a Frances Emily Turner
Does he name a father on the marriage?
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No bans found, only a marriage registration.
Frank married a Frances Emily Turner
Does he name a father on the marriage?
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1861 has
Ann French 42 pauper born Lewes
Frank French 3 pauper born Lewes
Frank born 14 Oct 1858
However a Frances Emily Turner married a frank francis french 1906, eastbourne.
If you look at the 1911 census for Frank father of Winifred Emily it gives the number of years married.
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I wonder if the oldest daughter Louisa May is
Louisa May Turner born Jun 1899 Eastbourne
Have you got the 1901 census for Frank or Emily? Not finding Louisa at present.
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I dont know for sure if Ann is his mother. There are two birth entries for eastbourne and brighton under the name of Frederick French and Im wondering if any of these records could be frank. Also the marriage record lists a frank francis french but there is no birth registration under this name that I can find.
1861 has
Ann French 42 pauper born Lewes
Frank French 3 pauper born Lewes
Frank born 14 Oct 1858
However a Frances Emily Turner married a frank francis french 1906, eastbourne.
If you look at the 1911 census for Frank father of Winifred Emily it gives the number of years married.
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Says they are married 12yrs which doesnt fit with the marriage registration of 1906 so thats another mystery
1861 has
Ann French 42 pauper born Lewes
Frank French 3 pauper born Lewes
Frank born 14 Oct 1858
However a Frances Emily Turner married a frank francis french 1906, eastbourne.
If you look at the 1911 census for Frank father of Winifred Emily it gives the number of years married.
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I found all the other childrens birth registrations apart from Louisa's but there is this entry...am wondering if she changed her name
Name Gladys May French
Registration Year 1898 Registration QuarterOct-Nov-Dec
Registration district Eastbourne
Inferred County Sussex Volume 2b Page70
I wonder if the oldest daughter Louisa May is
Louisa May Turner born Jun 1899 Eastbourne
Have you got the 1901 census for Frank or Emily? Not finding Louisa at present.
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No only found 1911
I found all the other childrens birth registrations apart from Louisa's but there is this entry...am wondering if she changed her name
Name Gladys May French
Registration Year 1898 Registration QuarterOct-Nov-Dec
Registration district Eastbourne
Inferred County Sussex Volume 2b Page70
I wonder if the oldest daughter Louisa May is
Louisa May Turner born Jun 1899 Eastbourne
Have you got the 1901 census for Frank or Emily? Not finding Louisa at present.
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They could have already had some children before getting married and changed the number of years married to fit (although it doesn't quite fit the oldest child)
Gladys May has mothers name Freeman
I do think the Turner registration is more likely but where was she in 1901 :-\
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Winifred should be on 1901 as well but can't find her either :-\
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Birth
Frank French
Dec 1858
Lewes
mmn French (on FindMyPast but not on GRO)
Baptism
Frank French
2nd January 1859
Lewes
mother Ann French
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As winifred was registered in Eastbourne, I would have assumed they could be found on the 1901 census. These are some of the birth registrations which I know are correct.
FRENCH, DOROTHY AMY ETHEL TURNER
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 59
FRENCH, FLORENCE ROSA ELLEN TURNER
GRO Reference: 1904 D Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 59
FRENCH, WINIFRED EMILY TURNER
GRO Reference: 1900 D Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 55
FRENCH, FRANK ARTHUR HENRY TURNER
GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 70
Doris Alice French
Registration Year 1909
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district Eastbourne
Inferred CountySussex Volume 2b Page68
FRENCH, LILIAN GLADYS IVY TURNER
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 71
Beatrice I P French
Mother's Maiden Name Turner
Registration Year 1915
Registration QuarterJan-Feb-Mar
Registration district Eastbourne
Inferred County Sussex Volume 2b Page125
William R T French
Registration DateOct 1917
Registration QuarterOct-Nov-Dec
Registration districtEastbourne
Inferred County East Sussex
Mother's Maiden Name Turner Volume Number 2b Page number105
They could have already had some children before getting married and changed the number of years married to fit (although it doesn't quite fit the oldest child)
Gladys May has mothers name Freeman
I do think the Turner registration is more likely but where was she in 1901 :-\
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Thanks for this, this is what I had initially but because of Francis Emily Turner marrying a Frank Francis French, its thrown me and also the lack of records for both these people. I cant find any census's apart from 1911 for emily and frank. The marriage record states 1906 they were married but the children were born some of them before then. Also the 1911 census states they were married 12yrs but only married for 6 if married in 1906
Birth
Frank French
Dec 1858
Lewes
mmn French (on FindMyPast but not on GRO)
Baptism
Frank French
2nd January 1859
Lewes
mother Ann French
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Interestingly the children were born before they were married if the marriage registration for
Frank Francis French and Frances Emily Turner is correct.
As winifred was registered in Eastbourne, I would have assumed they could be found on the 1901 census. These are some of the birth registrations which I know are correct.
FRENCH, DOROTHY AMY ETHEL TURNER
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 59
FRENCH, FLORENCE ROSA ELLEN TURNER
GRO Reference: 1904 D Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 59
FRENCH, WINIFRED EMILY TURNER
GRO Reference: 1900 D Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 55
FRENCH, FRANK ARTHUR HENRY TURNER
GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 70
FRENCH, DOROTHY AMY ETHEL TURNER
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 59
FRENCH, LILIAN GLADYS IVY TURNER
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 71
They could have already had some children before getting married and changed the number of years married to fit (although it doesn't quite fit the oldest child)
Gladys May has mothers name Freeman
I do think the Turner registration is more likely but where was she in 1901 :-\
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Not having much luck finding them on 1901 either ???
1922 Immigration Louie May French 23 nearest relative Aunt Mrs Turner, Eastbourne
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JNJX-HZ7
Miss Louise May French
Residence Place: 1208 Watchung Ave Nue , This City
Marriage Date: Abt 1924
Father: Frank French
Mother: French
Spouse: William Gallo (Mair)
U.S., Newspapers.com Marriage Index, 1800s-1999
Louise M Mair Age: 84
Death Date: 29 Aug 1982
Death Place: Plainfield, Union, New Jersey, USA
William G. Mair Age: 72
Residence Place: Scotch Plains
Death Date: 1969
Death Place: 1141 Raritan Road
Burial Place: Plainfield
Obituary Date: 6 Nov 1969
Obituary Place: Bridgewater, New Jersey, United States of America
Spouse: Louise French Mair
U.S., Newspapers.com Obituary Index, 1800s-current
US census Louise Mair
1930 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4N4-XC4 - cousin Reginald Turner
1940 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4YD-43D
1931 Immigration Louise May Mair
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24NZ-7DV
Edit to add
Louise’s cousin Reginald Turner with wife Margery and their children on 1940 US census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4YW-7L5
Reginald Turner’s death 1994, born 21 April 1904
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K4YW-7L5
Possible birth entry / parents marriage entry
Reginald TURNER mmn HENTY
1904 J Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 72
Dec 1896 Eastbourne 2b 148
Names on same page
Henty Kate
Turner William
1901 census Piece: 884 Folio: 18 Page Number: 27
William Turner 36 Selmeston, Sussex, bricklayer
Kate Turner 28
Alice R Turner 4 (middle name Rosa mmn Henly)
Harry Turner 2 (mmn Henty)
Could this be William with sister Fanny Turner
1881 Piece: 1072 Folio: 57 Page Number: 7
Henry Turner 60
Phebe Turner 66
William Turner 15 Selmeston, Sussex
Jane Turner 13
Fanny Turner 6 Selmeston, Sussex
Added
William TURNER mmn GUY
1865 J Quarter in LEWES Volume 02B Page 162
Fanny TURNER mmn GUY
1873 J Quarter in LEWES Volume 02B Page 161
Fanny Turner
Christening 22 Jun 1873 Selmeston, Sussex
Father: Henry Turner Mother: Phoebe
William & Kate Turner’s address 19 Bexhill Rd Eastbourne
on Louise May French’s 1922 immigration record nearest relative
Aunt Mrs Turner address 19 Bushill Road Eastbourne
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Frank married as Frank Francis French but his death reg'd as Francis Frank French - from only census you've found him on (1911) his birthplace given as Brighton and aged at death 69 in Mar.qtr.1927 indicates a birth in 1857/8.
I do not believe that he is the Frank born Lewes 1858, illeg. son of Ann.
I believe 'your' man is the Francis French bp.12/7/1857 Brighton, son of Henry and Mary (birth regn. gives mmn as Weller). On 1861 census he is listed as Francis, in 1871 with married sister 'Bett' (birth reg'd as Betsy, 1861 census as Elizabeth and married as Bet) and her husband Richard Goldsmith (married 1870) in Eastbourne as Frank and both census give birthplace as Brighton as in 1911.
Henry French died in 1864 Brighton and by 1871 his widow Mary is a housekeeper to a Benjamin Goldsmith in Eastbourne. Their youngest child - Henry T. bc.1860 - on 1861 census would appear to be an illeg. grandson rather than son (born as Thomas Henry Dec.1859). In 1871 is with his now married mother 'Nancy' and her husband James Packham (married Jun.1861 Brighton, her full name being Ann Elizabeth French). By 1881 this young man is back to being Henry again and is in Eastbourne with a Harry Goldsmith.
Be he Francis or Frank I cannot find him in 1881, 1891 or 1901. Certainly, 1861 and 1871 agree with 1911 that he was born in Brighton (not Lewes).
Frank's wife married as Frances Emily Turner and in 1911, as you already know, she is 'Emily' bc.1872 Selmeston, Sussex. There were only 2 Turner families in Selmeston at the relevant time and I believe that she was reg'd as Fanny Turner in Jun.1873 Lewes, mmn Guy. Parents being Henry Turner and Phebe Guy married Dec.1862 Lewes. Phebe shown 66 in 1881 which is an error - think it was supposed to be 46 - various census and death entry (1890) suggest born mid 1830's in Chiddingly.
However, whilst I believe the above is correct you really need to get details of the 1906 marriage of Frank to confirm their respective fathers names.
Annette
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Louise M Mair Age: 84
Death 29 Aug 1982
Death Place: Plainfield, Union, New Jersey, USA
Death of Louise Mair 1982 New Jersey gives her dob 26th February 1898
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JRQY-8WR
Not found her birth entry March qtr. 1898
same as millipede posted this is the only entry Eastbourne Louisa May but not right surname/qtr or year :-\
mother's maiden name left blank
TURNER, LOUISA MAY -
1899 J Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 62
1931 Naturalization May Louise Mair
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6C1P-N8KS
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I found all the other childrens birth registrations apart from Louisa's but there is this entry...am wondering if she changed her name
Name Gladys May French
Registration Year 1898 Registration QuarterOct-Nov-Dec
Registration district Eastbourne
Inferred County Sussex Volume 2b Page70
I wonder if the oldest daughter Louisa May is
Louisa May Turner born Jun 1899 Eastbourne
Have you got the 1901 census for Frank or Emily? Not finding Louisa at present.
I don't think the birth entry for Gladys May French is your Louisa May French
I believe she belongs to this family and Gladys May can be found with her family on 1911c
1901 c Piece: 882 Folio: 56 Page Number: 10
Luther French 44
Louisa E French 36
Sydney French 18
Emily A French 7
Ella D French 5
Gladdis M French 2
Benjamin P French 11
Uphert French 11
Gwendoline L French 13 (I think perhaps her age should be 13 mths not 13)
FRENCH, ELLA DAISY mmn FREEMAN
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 78
FRENCH, GLADYS MAY mmn FREEMAN
GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 70
FRENCH, GWENDOLEN LOUISE mmn FREEMAN
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in EASTBOURNE Volume 02B Page 79
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Louisa May French age 23, domestic
Port of Departure: New York
Arrival 12 Jun 1922
Port of Arrival: Southampton
Ship Name: Mauretania
Proposed address in UK 19 Bexhill Road, Eastbourne
Reginald TURNER age 21
address 19 Bexhill Road Eastbourne
Departure Date: 10 Feb 1926
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Destination Port: New York, USA
Ship Name: Aquitania
This address links Louise May FRENCH to William TURNER & Kate (nee HENTY) as previously mentioned the Turner's are living at that address and they have a son named Reginald TURNER born c1904
Louisa had a daughter named Winifred Emily Mair
Miss Winifred Emily MAIR
Residence Place: 425 Summit Ave. , Westfield
Employer: Plainf Ield-Union Water Company
School: Scotch Plains High School
Marriage 16 Apr 1955
Marriage Place: Westfield, New Jersey, USA
Father: William G. Mair Mother: Mair
Spouse: G T Seemon
Winifred E Seemon Age: 74
Birth 21 Jun 1933 Plainfield, New Jersey, USA
Death 13 Mar 2008 New Jersey, USA
and a daughter Lillian
Louise MAIR 32 & Lillian MAIR 2
last address in UK 19 Bexhill Road Eastbourne
Departure 30 May 1931 Southampton
Destination Port: New York, USA
Ship Name: Mauretania
Miss Lillian MAIR
School: Scotch Plains High School
Marriage 24 Dec 1946 Cranford, New Jersey, USA
Father: William Mair Mother: Mair
Spouse: J E Gohring
Lillian A. Gohring Birth 21 Jul 1928
Last Residence: 07076, Scotch Plains, Union, New Jersey
Death 26 Jan 2010
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/79396615/lillian-a.-gohring
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This FRENCH family are proving very elusive in 1901 ??? I've tried as many variations as I could think of but have still drawn a blank ???
Frank Francis French born c1858 Brighton Sussex
died 1927 Eastbourne
Fanny Emily French born c 1872 Selmston Sussex
died ?
Louisa May French? born c 1898 Eastbourne
died 1982 US married surname (MAIR) born 26 Feb 1898
Winifred Emily French (mmn Turner) born c 1900 Eastbourne
died 1981 Eastbourne married surname (SPOONER) born 15 Aug 1900
Are either of these Fanny’s death entry? Or did she remarry?
Mar 1919 Eastbourne 2b 134
Fanny French age 49
Mar 1939 Eastbourne 2b 148
Fanny French age 64
The only reason I can think of as to why Frank F French would not be on the 1901 census is perhaps he was serving in the Army :-\ Or were the family abroad at the time of 1901 census but their son Frank Jnr. was born 1902 Eastbourne, perhaps they have just been missed or their surname very badly transcribed ???
As previously mentioned the marriage certificate would be helpful in confirming father's names, occupation etc....obtaining Winifred (1900) or Frank (1902) birth certificates would give you their fathers occupation perhaps different from 1911c and their address in Eastbourne either side of 1901 census then you could check Electoral Register or try searching 1901c using that address.
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Winifred did marry a Spooner and died in Eastbourne. And Louisa did marry a Mair and moved to the States.
This FRENCH family are proving very elusive in 1901 ??? I've tried as many variations as I could think of but have still drawn a blank ???
Frank Francis French born c1858 Brighton Sussex
died 1927 Eastbourne
Fanny Emily French born c 1872 Selmston Sussex
died ?
Louisa May French? born c 1898 Eastbourne
died 1982 US married surname (MAIR) born 26 Feb 1898
Winifred Emily French (mmn Turner) born c 1900 Eastbourne
died 1981 Eastbourne married surname (SPOONER) born 15 Aug 1900
Are either of these Fanny’s death entry? Or did she remarry?
Mar 1919 Eastbourne 2b 134
Fanny French age 49
Mar 1939 Eastbourne 2b 148
Fanny French age 64
The only reason I can think of as to why Frank F French would not be on the 1901 census is perhaps he was serving in the Army :-\ Or were the family abroad at the time of 1901 census but their son Frank Jnr. was born 1902 Eastbourne, perhaps they have just been missed or their surname very badly transcribed ???
As previously mentioned the marriage certificate would be helpful in confirming father's names, occupation etc....obtaining Winifred (1900) or Frank (1902) birth certificates would give you their fathers occupation perhaps different from 1911c and their address in Eastbourne either side of 1901 census then you could check Electoral Register or try searching 1901c using that address.