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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: danieloftyne on Saturday 10 April 21 23:28 BST (UK)

Title: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: danieloftyne on Saturday 10 April 21 23:28 BST (UK)
Hi all I'm wondering if anyone can help me trace birth and mothers name for a william jones he was born in 1833 I deduced this from his marriage cert as he was 22 in 1855 when he married Mary Ann Christie in Newcastle-upon-Tyne  however according to censuses he was born at different years from 1861 to 1891 when trail goes cold the 1861 census he was born in 1831 in deptford Kent,1871 census born 1828 in London middlesex, 1881 census born 1827 in London middlesex, 1891 census born 1824 in London middlesex his father was john jones according to his marriage cert any help sorting this would be very much appreciated
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: heywood on Saturday 10 April 21 23:39 BST (UK)
Do you have an occupation for his father?
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: UK4753 on Sunday 11 April 21 00:01 BST (UK)
That's great advice from Heywood and worth pursuing. 

My William Jones (b. 1794) was born in Wiltshire and was a shoemaker (or cordwainer) as was his son.  Occupation is sometimes a key bit of information that allows one to have a better chance in identifying the correct family.

 :)

Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: danieloftyne on Sunday 11 April 21 06:59 BST (UK)
Hi heywood the father John jones occupation is on Williams wedding cert but is hard to make out
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Brentor boy on Sunday 11 April 21 07:47 BST (UK)
In 1851 William B Jones, 19, apprentice shipwright, born Deptford, was living in household of John Jones, shoemaker, at Grove Lane, St Paul, Deptford. (Family Search) Ref HO107, 1584/726, page 26.

Does any of that match up with the information on the marriage certificate? Shoemaker could be shown as cordwainer.

On Freereg there is the baptism of William Benjamin Jones on  1 April 1932, St Paul Deptford. Parents John and Mary Ann Jones  of Grove  Lane.

The same couple baptised a daughter, Martha Jane, on 29 October 1843, but I cannot find a matching entry on Free BMD or GRO Index which could have given the mother's maiden name.

A John Jones married Mary Ann Wright on 27 October 1825 at  St Paul's, Deptford.

All this is entirely conjecture but I am recording it in case any of it might tie in with what you already know.
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: danieloftyne on Sunday 11 April 21 07:57 BST (UK)
Hi Brentor boy thanks for info the 1861 census for Newcastle-upon-Tyne has william as an engine driver on railway born deptford Kent all other census after that he was born London middlesex the only thing consistent is he was an engineman on his marriage cert it says his father was john jones and what looks like his father's occupation as lantener I've tried posting a photo but it says it's too big and frankly I'm not computer savvy enough to make it smaller
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 11 April 21 08:05 BST (UK)
You don't need to post the whole certificate.  Can you post the snippets that you are uncertain of?
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: heywood on Sunday 11 April 21 08:48 BST (UK)
Brentor boy,
There is a published tree for William Benjamin Jones. It has a marriage for him in 1855 in Lewisham to Sarah S Hughes and after their first child was born they emigrated to New Zealand. :-\

Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: danieloftyne on Sunday 11 April 21 09:08 BST (UK)
Hi gg I took a photo of small section on my tablet but it won't let me upload it says file is too big don't know how to make it smaller
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: heywood on Sunday 11 April 21 09:09 BST (UK)
when trail goes cold

Considering the variation in his age, there is this death

Newcastle upon Tyne June quarter 1896 vol 10b pg 93
William Jones 62 yrs
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: danieloftyne on Sunday 11 April 21 09:17 BST (UK)
Thanks heywood I will look into that
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 11 April 21 09:21 BST (UK)
Daniel the maximum size for a photo is 500 KB.  Do you know how to resize a photo?  For me I find the photo I want, click on the three little dots at the top right hand of the screen. One of the options is Resize.  Click on that and then click on define custom dimensions.  You will need to go down quite a bit to get the right KB.  Try that and see what happens.
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: danieloftyne on Sunday 11 April 21 12:05 BST (UK)
Try this one out girl guide see if it comes up
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 11 April 21 12:20 BST (UK)
I can't see a picture Daniel just your words.
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 11 April 21 14:14 BST (UK)
Here is what Daniel wanted an opinion on - John's occupation

Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Annette7 on Sunday 11 April 21 14:27 BST (UK)
Looks like gardener to me.

Annette
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 11 April 21 14:28 BST (UK)
That's what I thought Annette.  Let's see if anyone else agrees.
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: phenolphthalein on Sunday 11 April 21 14:38 BST (UK)
Firstly at some stage Deptford ceased to be its own place and became part of greater London.
If he said London the census taker added the Middlesex.

Ancestry puts some or most of the records of Deptford under London or Lewisham.

So the change from Deptford is not surprising.

I too have ancestors shipwrights in Grove Place.

I also have a John Jones elsewhere in Kent -- old enough to be the dad.

I have several suggestions for the occupation of John Jones

Gardener -- most probable
Labourer though a little different to the other labourer
Leadener -- possibly blacking boots etc or stoves etc
dim and distant last badly written landowner

Lantener and leadener not found except as surnames on Google
Lanterner in French apparently means to dilly-dally
so maybe he was a jack of all trades?
regards
pH
[added SNAP 3 gardeners] great minds and all that
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Girl Guide on Sunday 11 April 21 14:46 BST (UK)
There is a John Jones (added born 1791) gardener in the 1851 census living in Lewisham with his wife and various other persons.

Registration District   Lewisham
Sub District   Eltham and Mottingham
Enumeration District   1A & 2
Schedule   63
Series   HO107
Piece number   1590
Folio   439
Page   17
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: danieloftyne on Sunday 11 April 21 18:13 BST (UK)
Ooh thank you all for your help I will try and investigate further having looked at it properly phenolphtaleins suggestion of leadener looks good as I think the first letter  is a definite "L now all I have to do is sift through all the joneses of London or hire a good medium once again thank you all 
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: phenolphthalein on Sunday 11 April 21 18:43 BST (UK)
Thank you girl guide -- that JOHN JONES in 1851 census might be worth my look and probably the original poster's look as well.
I am trying to work out if a 29 year old bachelor would marry a widow older than him.
Just remembered other members of the Jones family witnessed that wedding. So will check census and wedding see if any help. If census mentions East Malling or Maidstone or David you might hear my hurrah in Australia even in the UK.
But as its 3.30am i will obey the hours of silence rule.

I think what was put up was a gardener with wonky g.

Thank you
regards
pH
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: IgorStrav on Sunday 11 April 21 18:48 BST (UK)
Just popping in to say in my humble opinion it's definitely GARDENER
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Greensleeves on Sunday 11 April 21 18:50 BST (UK)
I agree with Igor - I think the occupation is definitely Gardener.
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: bevj on Sunday 11 April 21 20:26 BST (UK)
There's a John Jones, gardener aged 40 on the 1841 census in Kent with Eliza Jones (30) and a load of children (9) including a William aged 8.  all born in county.
Piece:    473
Book:    17
Folio:    4
Page Number:    2

Bev
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: Daisypetal on Sunday 11 April 21 21:38 BST (UK)

Hi,

This could be coincidence but in 1881 there is a John JONES born London living about 3 miles from William in Northumberland, and he is a gardener,


1881  RG11/5086  f.50  p.21  Longbenton, Northumberland
Billy Pit
                                                           Gard not Dom
John JONES    Head     Wid    80    Landscape Gardener    London, Southwark


Regards,
Daisy
Title: Re: Dreaded surname everyone wants to keep up with
Post by: danieloftyne on Sunday 11 April 21 23:45 BST (UK)
Wow you people are amazing I will check all of those out many many thanks to everyone whose helped me out here it is very much appreciated  be safe everyone