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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: ValJJJ on Sunday 11 April 21 16:52 BST (UK)
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This is a continuation of a thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=847391.0 on the Montgomeryshire board, where it turns out my assumptions were wrong.
I'm hoping someone can help with this as I haven't been able to discover further details.
In the 1911 census, Elizabeth Lewis, widow, 50 [Edit:70], born Erith, Kent, is listed with 2 children living of 4 born alive, at 30 Coverdale Rd, Shepherds Bush, Middx, London.
In 1901 she was at 2 Lime Grove, Shepherds Bush, and 1891 at 1 Lime Grove. Both listed as a widow.
From the 1881 census I found her and John P Lewis (draughtsman, age 42, born London) living at 3 Caxton Rd, Hammersmith, Middx with three children. (It was Kate who died before 1911)
Her first marriage was on 27 Oct 1858 at St Martins in the Field, Middx, and the certificate states the groom was coffee shop keeper Richard Thomas of George Square, St Margaret, Westminster, Middx (father William Thomas, farmer) and that Elizabeth Mary Wake was of King St, St Margaret, Westminster, Middx (father Charles Wake, plumber) with witnesses Charles Henry Wake and Caroline Jane Wake (these were her parents). There are quite a few trade directory entries for Charles Wake in King St, plumber, and sometimes glazier.
I can't find Elizabeth Thomas in the 1861 census, nor in the 1871 census. Neither can I be sure which of the various Richard Thomas deaths are the right one.
I haven't found her second marriage either, which would probably be 1872 at the latest since I have found a birth for 1872 of Cheltenham Wake Lewis (he died 1878 and a later child born 1880 to this couple was given the same name). I did find a marriage of Thomas to John Purslow Lewis, but the wrong Thomas, so the wrong John P Lewis too. (Thanks to those on the Montgomeryshire board for sorting that out).
Can anyone help please?
Thanks.
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As on the Montgomeryshire Board you have Elizabeth, age 50 on the 1911 Census. Do you need to re-check age?
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Quite right - 70 is the correct age. Oops.
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the birth registrations for the Lewis children have no mother's maiden name suggesting that the parents were not married.
Cheltenham Wake Lewis dec qtr 1872 Islington vol 1b pg 378 mmn -
Cheltenham Wake Lewis march qtr 1881 Fulham vol 1a pg 213 mmn -
Beatrice Betty Wake Lewis dec qtr 1877 Fulham vol 1a pg 229 mmn -
Katherine Mary Wake Lewis march qtr 1875 Kensington vol 1a pg 236 mmn -
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I noticed that but didn't know the significance.
So perhaps Richard Thomas didn't die?Or John P Lewis was not free to marry?
In the later census returns where she stated widow, that may have been fiction if she had then separated from Mr Lewis.
I couldn't find any Thomas births with mmn of Wake.
Perhaps I need to look for Elizabeth Thomas without Richard Thomas in earlier census returns?
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it may be an idea to get the pdf of one of the registrations to see what the detail is.
Yes, could be John P and/or Elizabeth were not free to marry.
Have you found Richard on any census to get a clue to his age? I see just noted as full age on marriage.
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No I haven't got any certs or pdfs as these are quite distant ancestors by marriage (via the name Wake Lewis, which intrigued me), and am just nosey! Also wanting to find the connection between Elizabeth Mary Wake and John (Cheltenham) Wake the artist - probably a cousin.
Her father was Charles Henry Wake b1821 and his was plain John Wake b1810 (who married Sarah Cheltenham, hence the names being handed down). I have yet to work backwards to see if these were brothers. Elizabeth is at 3 Caxton Rd, Shepherd's Bush, Hammersmith in the 1881 census, and John Chelt. Wake's probate showed two addresses for him, one being 5 Caxton Rd, where he died in 1882. 5 Caxton Rd is not on the adjoining census pages so I need to search for this address.
Elizabeth was his executor, and also in the schools admission register for Cheltenham Wake Lewis in Apr 1887 when he was 5, the name given under parent/guardian is Cheltenham but this could have been an error since he'd been dead 5 years, unless they just needed a male name in that column? They might just have copied the child's name. In fact originally I thought that John Chelt. Wake was his father because of Wake being one of his names, before I discovered Elizabeth's maiden name was Wake.
As for Richard Thomas, I have yet to find him anywhere except the marriage, and he might have been full age or not, as it states Elizabeth was of full age, but in fact about 17.
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In 1905, Cheltenham Wake Lewis married Martha Emily Louisa Luks, and John Cheltenham Wake is shown as his father, artist, RA.
Very confusing!
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In 1905, Cheltenham Wake Lewis married Martha Emily Louisa Luks, and John Cheltenham Wake is shown as his father, artist, RA.
Very confusing!
Hi...
Cheltenhams marriage
29th July 1905 was at St Andrew West Kensington.
Address is the same as 1911 census.
Tazzie
His father is listed as Cheltenham Wake Lewis deceased artist RA......not John
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You're right Tazzie. On the marriage cert it says Cheltenham Wake Lewis. Which I interpreted as John Wake who later called himself John Cheltenham Wake who was a landscape artist.
I recall reading somewhere that if the father's name is identical to the groom's it probably is an invention.
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it may be an idea to get the pdf of one of the registrations to see what the detail is.
Yes, could be John P and/or Elizabeth were not free to marry.
Often in these situations if the certificate mentions the father it is also indexed under that name under the same reference number like the examples I posted on this thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=847280.
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Thanks for that tip Rosie99 but it doesn't seem to be the case for the Wake Lewis children.
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I've found a mistake when starting again with this, working backwards from Cheltenham Wake Lewis born Dec 1880 with birth reg in 1881.
Because I was looking for a Wake connection for his mother Elizabeth, I assumed her maiden name was Wake, and leapt to the conclusion that she was Elizabeth Mary Wake who married Richard Thomas. However the bride was of King St, Westminster, where her father Charles Wake, plumber, lived, and her brother Charles Henry (not father as originally thought), plumber, unmarried, and sister Caroline Jane, unmarried, continued to live. The bride is shown in the 1851 census as born in St Margarets, Westminster.
Elizabeth Lewis (who might be nee Wake) is on various censuses as born in Kent, not Westminster. Either Erith or Ash, depending on the census.
I want to establish the link that meant she was executor for John (Cheltenham) Wake, born in Middx. His father was John Wake, born in Middx, a coach trimmer, and in St Giles in the 1841 census. The family were in Liverpool in 1851 where they remained, but John Cheltenham Wake (born abt 1835; apprentice gilder in 1851 in Liverpool) returned to Middx at some point. I haven't been able to find him on any other census though.
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the birth registrations for the Lewis children have no mother's maiden name suggesting that the parents were not married.
Cheltenham Wake Lewis dec qtr 1872 Islington vol 1b pg 378 mmn -
Cheltenham Wake Lewis march qtr 1881 Fulham vol 1a pg 213 mmn -
Beatrice Betty Wake Lewis dec qtr 1877 Fulham vol 1a pg 229 mmn -
Katherine Mary Wake Lewis march qtr 1875 Kensington vol 1a pg 236 mmn -
A 16yr old Katherine Mary Wake Lewis recorded as an orphan in Orphanage of the Sisters of Bethany in 1891. A 13 yr old Beatrice Bessie [as transcribed] Wake Lewis also there.
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Scotmum - that's intriguing. Are these census entries or from some other record?
I have in the 1891 census, at 1 Lime Grove, Hammersmith, Elizabeth Lewis (the mother) listed as a widow, with son Jack, 10 (that would be Cheltenham Wake Lewis born 1880) and a boarder, Elizabeth Gould, 51, born Shoreditch, along with 3 other female boarders.
In the 1901 census at 2 Lime Grove, there's Elizabeth Lewis with John, son, 26 (presumably Cheltenham again) and Beatrice. Elizabeth Gould is listed again, with 2 other female boarders. No Kate.
Kate died in 1909 with the death registered in Kensington.
In the 1911 census there's Elizabeth Lewis and Beatrice at 30 Coverdale Rd, Hammersmith, with her married son Jack (whose wife in 1911 had just given birth to their son Ivan and was listed as a boarder at a doctor's house, and whose daughter was with the grandparents). Plus one boarder, Elizabeth Gould.
So not orphans but perhaps more of a workhouse arrangement?
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I can see now the 1891 census entries for the Wake Lewis children. Wonder how they ended up in Christchurch?
There's a possible same Kate Lewis for 1901, servant, 26, born London, at Russell Hill, Purley (Beddington parish) in the Mitcham sub district of Croydon. Working at an orphan school - Warehousemen Clerks and Drapers School.
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Yes, as you have now seen, it was the census. I've come across instances before of children being placed in orphanages without actually being orphans, as well as instances, too, of some remaining on as workers in later years (one in particular comes to mind, where the female in question had, I think, a learning disability, and once she turned an adult, could not have easily supported herself elsewhere).
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An update after more work. This is what I've found, and have also posted on artist John Cheltenham Wake's bio on Wikipedia since it originally said 'not much known about his early life'.
Now I can see where Elizabeth Lewis fits in.
John Wake (abt 1808-1868) married Sarah Cheltenham (1810-1863) on 24 Oct 1831 at St Martin in the Fields, Middlesex, England. They had seven children including John Cheltenham Wake.
John Wake was born in Bloomsbury in about 1808, son of John Wake. Sarah Cheltenham was born in Shaftesbury (not Shrewsbury as in the records - someone must have misheard/misread the place name) in 1810, daughter of John Cheltenham, victualler (of the Swan Inn, Shaftesbury), and Sarah Cheltenham nee Hunt.
John Cheltenham Wake:
Born 27 Sep 1834 and baptised on 19 Oct 1834 at St George Bloomsbury, Camden, Middlesex. Records show John, son of John and Sarah Wake, of Duke Street, father's occupation a coach trimmer.
1841 census: Age 6. With family at 38 Monmouth St, Finsbury, with father's occupation a coach trimmer.
1851 census: Age 16. With family at 7 Rose Square, Islington, Liverpool. John is listed as 16 years old, an apprentice gilder, born Middlesex. With parents (John 43, born Bloomsbury, London, coach trimmer, and Sarah 42 born Shrewsbury [sic]), siblings Ellen, Douglas and Alfred. NB Alfred was their only child to have a middle name of Cheltenham registered at birth.
Later censuses show the parents and rest of the family remaining in Liverpool.
1861 census: John Cm Wake, single, 25, lodger, Artist figure & marine painter. In the Dobell household in Erith, Kent. No addresses on this page, and no number for this household. Possibly Park Spring Terrace or Court or Place. First appearance in the records of the middle name Cheltenham. Wrong age. Should be 26.
Marriage of John Cheltenham Wake to Clara Reeves (1843-1922) on 5 Apr 1862 in Brentford, Middlesex.
Birth of son Herwald Andrew Wake in 1865, Dartford, Kent; baptised on 22 Oct 1871 at Holy Trinity, Blackheath Hill, Greenwich, Kent. Baptism record states born 19 Aug 1865. Son of Cheltenham and Clara Wake. Father an artist. Of Thurston Rd, Lewisham.
1871 census: 47 Thurston Rd, Lewisham. Listed as John Wake, 34, landscape artist, with Clara Wake, both born Middx, London, and son Herwald Wake born Erith, Kent. Wrong age. Should be 36.
Birth of son Cheltenham Wake Lewis (1872-8), Islington, Middlesex. Mother Elizabeth Lewis.
Birth of daughter Katherine Mary Wake Lewis (1875–1909), Kensington, Middlesex. Mother Elizabeth Lewis.
Birth of daughter Beatrice Betty Wake Lewis(1877–1958), Shepherds Bush, Middlesex. Mother Elizabeth Lewis.
Birth of son Cheltenham Wake Lewis(1880–1926), Shepherds Bush, Middlesex. Mother Elizabeth Lewis.
1881 census: 3 Caxton Rd, Hammersmith. John P Lewis [presumably John Cheltenham Wake], 42 [should be 46], head, married, draughtsman, born Middx, Elizabeth Lewis, 40, born Ash, Kent. Kate Lewis, 6, Beatrice Lewis 3, C. Lewis 4 months. Andrew Wake [transcribed Wales], 15, visitor, scholar, born New Cross, Kent. It would seem they went to extraordinary lengths to disguise themselves, with variants on names, occupation, birthplaces, omitting Andrew's first name, and referring to the baby as C, yet he'd already been registered with the name Cheltenham so it wasn't as if they were still deciding what to call him.
Died 1882 age 45. Should be 47. Error in age probably due to informant error and/or ignorance of true age.
Died at 5 Caxton Rd on 18 May 1882. Probate on 5 Jan 1883, London office, stated late of 5 Caxton Rd, Shepherd's Bush and 74 Newman St, Oxford St, Middx. Will proved by Elizabeth Lewis spinster of 1 Lime Grove, Uxbridge Road, Middx. Sole executrix. NB There was no number 5 Caxton Rd in the 1881 census and the will, although handwritten, clearly shows 5, not 3, so not a typo.
And regarding Elizabeth Lewis (my original query) and Clara Wake nee Reeves:
Elizabeth:
1887 still at 1 Lime Grove, Hammersmith/Fulham, Middx - address given for Cheltenham Wake Lewis when he started school.
1911 30 Coverdale Rd, Shepherds Bush, Middx. Widow, letting apartments. With son Jack, 30, married, gauger, and daughter Beatrice, 33, single, no occupation.
1921 12 Boscombe Rd, London W12. Widow, 80yrs 11mths, born Erith, Kent. With daughter Beatrice.
1922 death registered in Hammersmith. Could be her but not verified with a cert.
Clara:
1887 electoral register shows Herewald Wake renting from Mrs C Wake, furnished, 1st floor, back. 5s per week. 30 Delaford Street, Fulham, Middlesex.
1881, 1891, 1901, 1911? Can't find her.
1921 census possibly her or is this the widow of Amos Reeves? Clara Reeves (not Wake), head, widowed, 77 and 2 mths, born Dartford, with niece Ethel Reeves, single, 52 and 10 mths, born Brixton, music teacher on own account. Cannot identify the niece connection.
1922 Clara Reeves death registered in Lambeth. Again could be the widow of Amos Reeves.
So the puzzle of Elizabeth Lewis and the Wake Lewis surname is solved, thanks all. As for Clara, hmm.