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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: GeoffTurner on Tuesday 13 April 21 12:33 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
You have been a lot of help in the past (for which many thanks) and I'm hoping you might be able to help with this as well. A cousin's ancestor Jurgen Heinrich (Harry) Burmeister was born in Lübeck Hansestadt, Lubeck, Schleswig-Holstein, Germany in 1835 and emigrated to Australia. We know he married a young Englishwoman, Agnes Amelia Paterson (1849-1823), at Alexandra in Victoria in 1875. Harry died at Urana NSW in 1896 and I presume he is buried there, although we have not been able to confirm that. Agnes remarried and died in Albury NSW in 1923. Other branches of the family sailed from Bremen to Port Adelaide and then spread into Victoria and NSW, and it is possible, that Harry did likewise. Can anyone suggest the best place to start when trying to find Harry's arrival in Australia, and hopefully the name of his ship? I realise we are at a disadvantage not knowing exactly when he arrived but I am hoping someone might have an idea of how best to approach our puzzle.
Thanks to all,
Geoff Turner.
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The NSW bdm death registration has headings that give responses to "how long in the colonies" and gives the Cemetery, cause of death, marriage/s, naming children of the marriage/s, and many other family history details.
An official transcription is cheaper, has already transcribed the registration and is recognised by family history groups.
JM
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Most of the Burmeisters I can see emigrated to the US. The only vaguely similar entry I can see is:
Name: Johan Heinrich Burmeister
Birth: Circa 1846
Age: 29
Registration: Apr 24 1875, Copenhagen, Denmark
Former residence: Schleswig, Germany
Destination: New Zealand
Contract: #70500
Occupation: Tyende (m/k land)
Tyende = Servant
The date of birth is wrong though as is the first name and it would have been a quick turnaround from arriving to getting married!
I'll keep looking....
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We know he married a young Englishwoman, Agnes Amelia Paterson (1849-1823), at Alexandra in Victoria in 1875.
I'd love to know where you found this marriage ...
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I have ordered the death cert for Harry Burmeister, which should help clear a few things up. There is an Agnes A Patterson (not Paterson) arriving in Melbourne as a child on the "Herald of the Morning" from Liverpool in 1857. If that is her, as I suspect may be the case, she is listed with her mother and two brothers as Irish and aged 5. I think this is more likely than the girl from Barnet, Hertfordshire, who we assumed was her. so we are now looking for a marriage for Harry and Agnes Amelia Patterson (1852-1923) We know that when she remarried she was listed as Agnes Amelia Burmeister, so it seems there was a marriage. Their son Samuel, who is of most interest to us, was born near Urana in 1885 and the birth was registered in Albury (father's name listed as Henry). So presumably the marriage was before then. The 1875 marriage at Alexandra comes from family but I can find no evidence of it in Vic BDM, even using BURM* (Samuel's birth was registered as Burmiester, not Burmeister). In fact, they apparently had 10 children between 1877 and 1892, which would also fit with an 1875 marriage. I have looked in SA and NSW BDM as well for the marriage, without success.
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NSW BDM birth registrations are informative too. If you have the youngest child's birth cert, (or offical transcription) then on that actual record you learn the informant's knowledge on names and then age of the older living siblings, when and where their parents married, and other family history info. Similarly, VIC BDM registrations are usually considered as having even greater depth of detailed info. Victoria's certs are, in my view, at least as detailed as Scotland's. NSW certs are not quite as detailed, but are far far more detailed than say GRO ones for England and Wales.
JM
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A large number of people emigrated from Schleswig-Holstein in the late 1860s and early 1870s as a result of Germany taking control of Schleswig-Holstein from Denmark. Sometimes males escaped German military service by leaving very quickly (secretly) without permission - and therefore it is difficult to trace where they went.
The other difficulty is with German/ Danish names, and knowing which of their 3 or 4 forenames they used for emigration. Sometimes knowing their parents names or their occupation can help in tracing their emigration.
Can I recommend you have a look at this site under the list of surnames starting wth "B" to see if anything is familiar. As you will see, most of them went to USA.
https://www.rootdigger.de/Emi.htm
For example, I note there is a Heinrich Burmeister born about 1830. He emigrated to Australia in 1858. Cabinetmaker by trade. Port of destination : Melbourne.
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What a can of worms! And of course it was much more than an intellectual exercise for the poor people involved. There is a baptism (which I can't access) for Jürgen Hinrich Burmeister at Lauenburg, Schleswig-Holstein, Deutschland. Çan't access the date. But I am told the parents are another Jurgen Heinrich Burmeister and his wife Caroline. An 1857 Lübeck Census has Caroline living at Poggensee, Landwehr-Bezirk Ritzerau. Born Krummesse, Herzogtum Lauenburg, Schleswig-Holstein about 1800 (i.e. 57yo).
I'm not aware of Harry being a cabinetmaker in Australia but I'll ask around the family. Of course, he may have just take what work was available -- farm labouring -- if he couldn't get work in his chosen trade. It would not surprise me if he emigrated as Heinrich rather than Jurgen. He called himself Henry and Harry in Australia.
What port is he likely to have sailed from?
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What port is he likely to have sailed from?
Lübeck and Hamburg would have been the closest ports I think.
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What a can of worms! ...... . It would not surprise me if he emigrated as Heinrich rather than Jurgen. He called himself Henry and Harry in Australia.
Yes, Neale's summary is spot on.
May I mention that just a quick look at births as INDEXED at NSW BDM online, for your couple, I can clearly see that he was not just Henry and Harry but he did use his full name. :)
Here's seven N.S. Wales births :), remembering that NSW BDM online index originates from a volunteer project in the 1930s… Volunteers reading well worn pages, longhand scribble, ink bleeds, torn corners etc and doing so under natural light only to provide NSW BDM with an INDEX for the first time...
So for BIRTHS for this family, the online index gives Agnes and/or Agnes A as mum’s name, and variations on Harry’s given names.
1878, reg’d Albury, #7623, Caroline, Dad as Turgen H BURMEISTER, Mum as Agnes A
1880, reg’d Albury, #8399, Frederick W, Dad as Henry BURMEISTER, Mum as Agnes A
1881, reg’d Albury #9265, Alice, Dad as Henry BURMEISTER, Mum as Agnes
1884, reg’d Albury, #12197, Ernest N, Dad as Turgen H BURMEISTER, Mum as Agnes A
1885, reg’d Albury, #12649, Samuel A, Dad as Henry BURMIESTER, Mum as Agnes A
1887, reg’d Corowa, #13940, William J, Dad as Jargan H BURMIESTER, Mum as Agnes A
1889, reg’d Corowa #13802, Agnes A, Dad as Jurgen H BURMEISTER, Mum as Agnes A
1892, reg’d Corowa, #11707, Emily B, Dad as Jurgen H BURMEISTER, Mum as Agnes A
So Emily's b.c. should list her details, her parents details and details too for her older siblings.
JM
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I'll think about the Emily b.c. But we are mainly interested in Samuel and his parents -- and two of Samuel's daughters, Myrtle and Edith, since Edith raised one of Myrtle's daughters. Working backwards, I now have Harry's death cert on the way. We know Harry's wife, mother and two brothers were described as Irish on the passenger list when they arrived in Melbourne in 1857. What would be really helpful is the marriage cert for Harry and Agnes, because it might confirm where Harry and Agnes were born, but we can't even confirm that the ceremony took place in 1875 at Alexandra Vic, as has been suggested.
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I noticed this marriage in VIC in 1866.
Gurgon Heinrich BURMEISTER from Germany
to Elizabeth NOWLAN from Cumberland
Reg Number: 2230
Essie
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That's interesting. I couldn't see a death for Elizabeth BURM* though.
How do you get the Germany and Cumberland from Vic BDM?
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Yes, so on the NSW BDM birth registration, (as noted by me from my collection of bdm certs/official transcriptions), the informant provides the family history responses to the following about the Parents of the Child:
Father :
Surname, Other names
Occupation
Age
Place of Birth
Mother :
Surname
Maiden surname
Other Names
Age
Place of Birth
Date of marriage (day, month, year)
Place of Marriage (locality and/or village/town/suburb and Colony)
Previous Children of the Marriage (JM notes these are listed chronologically, given names and age)
https://www.nsw.gov.au/topics/family-history-search/family-history-research-guide and perhaps scroll through this too : https://www.nsw.gov.au/topics/family-history-search/ancestry-research#Ancestry-research-help
JM
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If Harry and Elizabeth split up and he took up with Agnes in a common-law marriage, that might explain why we haven't been able to find that marriage.
I'll get the Emily b.c.
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That's interesting. I couldn't see a death for Elizabeth BURM* though.
How do you get the Germany and Cumberland from Vic BDM?
Hi Geoff
I have cds with bmds that have different search fields.
Essie
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1877, City of Collingwood Victoria, Rate Books
L Charles Street
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BURMEISTER, Henry, Cabinet Maker, Wood house,
......
JM ADD ... found a date .... that's 4 April 1877. :)
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I will steal that thanks, Essie.
You would have to think the Collingwood guy is Heinrich the cabinetmaker who arrived in Melbourne in 1858. I guess the question is: Is he the same man who married Elizabeth Nowlan and then had a handful of kids with Agnes Amelia Patterson? Or were there two (Jurgen) Heinrich Burmeisters? Is the cabinetmaker not part of our story?
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/221649452 NSW Government Gazette 23 December 1890 issue 739, page 9804
Conditional Purchases notice... from Wagga Land Board.
CP no. 85-4
J H BURMEISTER, Urana District, 6 August 1886, 240 acres,
Section 26, Parish of Boreegerry, Portion 64.
https://www.nswlrs.com.au/Parish-and-Historical-Maps
https://www.nswlrs.com.au/Historical-Records-Online
Attaching a snip from 1890 NSW Lands Titles Map of Parish of Boreegerry, County of Urana for the Corowa and Urana Land Districts. Is that likely a further spelling of Harry's first given name?
JM
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Henry acquiring land at Alexandra in 1872
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/59797189
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/59797137
Sue
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Yes, it was Jurgen, as written there. His son Samuel was born at Goonambil Station, Urana, in 1885.
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I will steal that thanks, Essie.
You would have to think the Collingwood guy is Heinrich the cabinetmaker who arrived in Melbourne in 1858. I guess the question is: Is he the same man who married Elizabeth Nowlan and then had a handful of kids with Agnes Amelia Patterson? Or were there two (Jurgen) Heinrich Burmeisters? Is the cabinetmaker not part of our story?
The cabinet maker Henry BURMEISTER was still in Melbourne on the rates books in 1881/2.
Sue
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So if it is the same man, he arrives in Melbourne in 1858, marries Elizabeth Nowlan in 1866 (presumably in Melbourne), buys land at Alexandra in 1872, is still listed as a cabinetmaker in Collingwood in 1877 -- and 1881-- but by then is in a relationship with Agnes Amelia Patterson and is in the Urana-Corowa-Albury area having children by 1878 at the latest and buying land at Urana in 1886.
I think it is more likely that the cabinetmaker Heinrich married Elizabeth Nowlan and stayed in Melbourne. The other Jurgen Heinrich (Harry) headed to Alexandra, bought land there and met Agnes Amelia, then they kept going north and had their kids around Urana, registering the births at Corowa and Albury.
So we still don't know when our Harry got to Australia! lol
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So if it is the same man, he arrives in Melbourne in 1858, marries Elizabeth Nowlan in 1866 (presumably in Melbourne), buys land at Alexandra in 1872, is still listed as a cabinetmaker in Collingwood in 1877 -- and 1881-- but by then is in a relationship with Agnes Amelia Patterson and is in the Urana-Corowa-Albury area having children by 1878 at the latest and buying land at Urana in 1886.
I think it is more likely that the cabinetmaker Heinrich married Elizabeth Nowlan and stayed in Melbourne. The other Jurgen Heinrich (Harry) headed to Alexandra, bought land there and met Agnes Amelia, then they kept going north and had their kids around Urana, registering the births at Corowa and Albury.
So we still don't know when our Harry got to Australia! lol
That seems to be so.
So it looks like you will need to rely on the official record for his death to give you how long in the colony (no pun intended, but I did look through the 1875 Greville PO directory for HOWLONG !) and for one of the birth certs to give you his marriage.
I should also mention that in NSW in that era, you most likely needed to a NSW citizen to formally purchase land, so either the Lands Titles Office umm.... overlooked seeking naturalization papers ... or more likely ... I cannot find them indexed at NSW State Archives : https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/naturalization-citizenship-guide
(ADD, Naturalisation papers have date of birth, place of birth, name of ship of arrival, date, what port it came from, name of spouse, details about children, addresses in the colonies, current address, .... chapter and verse ... so to write. )
JM
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The Argus 4th Nov 1858
Shipping Intelligence
The Barque “Podesta” sailed from Hamburg on 17th July 1858 and arrived Melbourne Nov 3rd
446 tons, Master: M. Angelbeck.
The handwriting on the passenger list is bad & extremely difficult to read.
Just over 20 passengers.
However, I believe on board was a H. Burmeister, single, age 25.
An observation: If your man was born about 1835, he is rather old (40 ish) for a first marriage in 1875. I think the 1866 marriage found by Essie is a good possibility.
(I had a look for naturalisation papers, but could only find them for Leopold Burmeister a watchmaker.)
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From rootdigger we know the 1858 H Burmeister arrival was the cabinetmaker, and he seems to be the one who married Elizabeth Nowland in 1866. Our guy seems to be a different person with a similar name, who headed upcountry while the cabinetmaker stayed in Melbourne. Agnes Amelia was born about 1852, and her age is more important than her husband's age in regard to family etc. I'm beginning to think there might not have been a formal marriage anyway. We will see what the death and birth certificates tell us.
Geoff
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1891 NSW Householders ‘Census’
Census district No. 64, Urana
Sub District: Goonambil N & S, Clear Hills and Burrangong.
County of Urana.
Clear Hills : …….
J H BURMESTER, 8 males, 4 females.
……..
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKKQ-GSMK
Notice that the Innes(s) family are near neighbours (likely same family as from the snip I posted earlier)
(N & S as in North and South)
JM
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The ever-helpful Rosball has put me on to an obit in the Albury Banner for Harry's wife. It says she was English, so that Irish family arriving in Melbourne is a red herring. It says she was born in 1849, so that would be her born in Barnet, Hertfordshire, after all. It says she arrived in Australia aged 17 (1866) and married Harry nine years later (1875). It doesn't say where but it may have been Alexandra Vic. Hopefully we will know more about that when the certificates arrive. It said she left four sons and three daughters. They would all have been Burmeister children as she was 48 when she married her second husband.
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The ever-helpful Rosball has put me on to an obit in the Albury Banner for Harry's wife. It says she was English, so that Irish family arriving in Melbourne is a red herring. It says she was born in 1849, so that would be her born in Barnet, Hertfordshire, after all. It says she arrived in Australia aged 17 (1866) and married Harry nine years later (1875). It doesn't say where but it may have been Alexandra Vic. Hopefully we will know more about that when the certificates arrive. It said she left four sons and three daughters. They would all have been Burmeister children as she was 48 when she married her second husband.
The National Library of Australia’s Trove website is one of the many great resources that are readily available and do not require subscriptions to use. Trove is of course far more than just newspapers, but The Albury Banner and Wodonga Express 1871-1938 has been digitised and is included at Trove. The paper copy would likely have been readily available for decades at the Library in Canberra and likely also at the NSW State Library in Sydney.
Here is the live link to the article our OP refers to. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/99435775 it is from page 46 of the edition of 26 October 1923 and is a paragraph under the heading LATE DISTRICT NEWS.
My transcription:
The death occurred at Albury on October 6, after a long and painful illness, of Mrs Agnes Amelia OAKROOT, at the age of 74 years. Deceased, who was widely known and highly respected in the district, came from London as a girl of 17. Nine years later she married the late Mr. Harry BURMEISTER, of Clear Hills Station. After Mr. Burmeister’s death, deceased resided in Victoria for a time, and later married Mr. Andrew OAKFOOT, coming to live in Pleasant Hills 20 years ago. Deceased leaves three sons and four daughters. The funeral took place in the Church of England cemetery at Albury.
The parish maps (see links posted previously and at RChat's NSW Resources board) for early 1900s for Pleasant Hills includes town lots for AA OAKROOT, and for E.N. BURMEISTER along Edgehill Street. In the NOTES section of that official map it also notes that the Village of Munyabla was proclaimed 10 December 1892 and its name was altered to Pleasant Hills , Gazette 14 August 1897.
JM
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I lived in Albury for a while and Pleasant Hills was one of the townships we visited for a nice drive and a refreshing ale around lunch time. I think they eventually sold the pub licence to a pokie palace or bottle shop chain. They were using the old pub building as a community centre, last I heard. But I digress. I'm told Harry Burmeister's mother's maiden name was Caroline Magdalena Hass (we knew the Caroline part), and I have a couple of alternative places of birth, so I'll be interested to see what the death cert says -- assuming the informants knew it, of course.
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I am quite familiar with Culcairn ... excellent coffee at Culcairn Bakery .
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I have again searched NSW BDM online for possible marriage in 1875 (ish) for Agnes and Harry. And one of my elderly rellies has phoned me to remind me that the flooding issues of that era include such significant family history matters as ...
a) loss of parish registers due to inundation of the church building and/or the manse
b) loss of official records due to inundation at post office or land board office or court house
So a quick check at Trove indicates frequent flooding of the flats around Albury in the 1870s... for example :
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/247271985 Burrangong Argus 8 Sept 1875
....Flood at Albury - the river is flooded and higher than it was ever known to be and is still rising...
I seem to recall a long discussion with a family history buff perhaps nearly a decade or so ago regarding missing parish registers pre the NSW 1879 Clergy Returns Transfer Act. Flooding was one significant consideration.
My fingers are crossed that the death registration I noted at reply 1 gives you confidence in the informant's knowledge and has details of his parents, his place of birth, his time in the colonies, his usual address, when and where married, children and resolves any confusions.
JM
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Mr. Harry BURMEISTER, of Clear Hills Station.
Does anyone know exactly where this place is or was?
We have Harry/Henry acquiring land as early as 1872 in the Alexandra area (Reply #19 this thread)
Sue
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Yes !
back shortly, but it is in the Riverina, NSW .... I posted a 1891 householder sighting.
Back
reply #26 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKKQ-GSMK
JM
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Here's some scribble ;D by a NSW enumerator
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Phone call info
(per the ancient rellies)
Arrival of a male BURMEISTER 12 November 1862. He was aged 24. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPHQ-FSMP
From Port Chalmers, New Zealand per the Aldinga to Hobsons Bay.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TC18621107.2.18
Colonist 7 Nov 1862
The Aldinga from Otago to Melbourne, on the 30th ultimo took 150 returned diggers ….
JM
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the Land Titles Office is no longer. It is now a private enterprise.
But, from the 1891 NSW householders Census image available at family search, I can see INNESS and BURMEISTER as householders at Clear Hills etc....
And from the civil parish maps that were once the main stay of online NSW family history rural properties searchings.... I can see that:
The NSW Land Titles Office assigned the subsisting portions of Boreegerry Parish the Deposited Plan 756393 in 1971.
Two snips attached … look for U1646 William INNES and also U2086 (U1646 was 60 acres, Portion 51. U2086 was Jurgen Burmeister 240 acres Portion 64)
JM
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OOPS,
Here's the second one.
Nope, wrong one. back soon
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OOPS,
Here's the second one.
Nope, wrong one. back soon
THIS ONE ;D ;D ;D
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Apparently the first child of Harry and Agnes was a son named August Henry. Some Ancestry trees have him born on 4 Jun 1877. Cemetery index and Find a Grave say born 1876 (apparently from age at death). But no one knows where he was born. Logically Vic or NSW but I checked SA as well, no luck anywhere. We have his marriage
15444/1913 BURMEISTER AUGUST H COPSEY KATHLEEN LOCKHART
and his death
BURMEISTER AUGUST HENRY 3830/1944 JERGON HEINDRICH AGNES AMELIA NARRANDERA
(with new variations on how to spell Harry's name). But I guess I have to hope Emily's birth cert gives us some information on her big brother.
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Apparently the first child of Harry and Agnes was a son named August Henry. Some Ancestry trees have him born on 4 Jun 1877. Cemetery index and Find a Grave say born 1876 (apparently from age at death). But no one knows where he was born. Logically Vic or NSW but I checked SA as well, no luck anywhere. We have his marriage
15444/1913 BURMEISTER AUGUST H COPSEY KATHLEEN LOCKHART
and his death
BURMEISTER AUGUST HENRY 3830/1944 JERGON HEINDRICH AGNES AMELIA NARRANDERA
(with new variations on how to spell Harry's name). But I guess I have to hope Emily's birth cert gives us some information on her big brother.
No, that's only the INDEX info from NSW BDM for the registration of his marriage and the INDEX info from NSW BDM for registration of his death. The actual official record as per that index reference 15444 of his 1913 marriage should have his place of birth.
The index is really only an aid, a pointer to the actual record. Have you contacted those Ancestry Tree owners to see if they have any actual official records to share with you? Or perhaps invite them to join RChat?
JM
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I fear the Ancestry people will have just copied each other. And I try to rely on the indexes rather than purchase certificates -- the pension only goes so far!
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Ancestry's offering for Australian Births is a compilation of quite a number of indexes, and many of those indexes were already compilations of other indexes. But Ancestry is a commercial operation, so there is subscription fees involved, and there's third party conditions involving T & C.
Fortunately for your current quest, both VIC BDM and NSW BDM indexes are online and are free to search. Sadly, even a search using those two indexes are not finding the 1875 marriage.
There's excellent resources at all the sub-boards at RChat's Australia Resources : https://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/ and quite a number of regulars do go to various archives, not just in the capital cities, but regionally as well.
I think the best current armchair search option for your Harry is TROVE, and as an added benefit, Trove is absolutely no charge, and absolutely no need to register or to log in. https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/advanced/category/newspapers
JM
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The certificates arrived from NSW BDM this morning. I got Harry's death certificate and also the birth certificate for Emily, the youngest child.
So we now know Harry died from liver cancer at Urana Hospital. He was 61 years old, which confirms the 1835 birth date. We knew his father's name but not that he was a soldier. We have his mother as Caroline Haas, and it appears as Asse on this, but that might be an acceptable variation. The birthplace seems to be Ranitsberg, Germany, which I can't find. I had Lübeck Hansestadt, Lubeck, Schleswig-Holstein, Germany. My best guess is Ahrensbök, but that's not terribly close. The place of birth on the birth certificate seems to be Raudsburg, so perhaps they are both supposed to be Rendsburg.
Working backwards, when he died in 1896 he had been 18 years in NSW, meaning he arrived there in 1878. Before that he was 12 years in Victoria, which means he arrived in Australia about 1866.
He married Agnes Amelia Patterson in Victoria when he was 41, so about 1876. We had the Alexandra marriage as 1875, so that's about right. She was an English girl who came to Australia when she was 17, arriving about 1866 as well. (In fact, Emily's birth certificate says they were married in Alexandra on 4 Jul 1875.)
The death cert lists his children as August Henry, 19; Alice, 15; Maud Rosina, 13 and a half; Ernest Nicholas 12; Samuel Alexander, 11 (Myrtle's father); William James, 9; Agnes Amelia, ; Emily Bertha, 4. I didn't know about Maud but have found her marriage and grave at Howlong now. It also lists 1 male child and 1 female child deceased. These are Caroline (1878-1882) and Frederick W (1880-1880).
We had a marriage and death for August, but no birth. We have now confirmed he was born about 1877.
It took a long time to get these -- and the fact they arrived today might indicate they are working on Saturdays to clear a backlog. Anyway, we have them now. I guess the most important thing is we now know how long the Burmeisters have been in Australia.
The only outstanding questions are really that birthplace. As always, thanks for all your help.
Geoff
I will send the birth in a separate post.
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The birth cert.
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I wonder if the place name could be “RATZEBURG”, which is a little south of Lubeck.
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Could be. The town names differ slightly on the two certificates. I tend towards the birth certificate because Harry was still alive at that stage, although his wife was the informant. Maybe I should just put Lubeck. Better to be a little vague than wrong.
Geoff
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Just a little additional information: I’m told by someone who now lives at Urana but is originally from Oaklands NSW that Clear Hill, where Harry died, is the original name for Oaklands.