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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: worth on Friday 23 April 21 10:55 BST (UK)
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Hello
Would anyone be able to help me please locating the above lady. Her name was Annie Smith and she would be born around 1902 but i dont know where. She married in 1926 to Thomas William Bowman, she was 24 he was 21, in Lambeth London, her father was named on the marriage certificate as Benjamin Smith, occupation cab proprietor, deceased, but i cant find any info on her father either. Annie died in 1931 in Dulwich London of TB. I would love to know if she had any siblings and what her parents (mother) was called. Any help would be fantastic, thankyou in advance.
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Who were the witnesses on the marriage please?
Sometimes they can be helpful and lead to other family.
Do you have her date of birth from the 1939 register as that will narrow down a birth registration **
** or did she pass away before 1939?
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Hi and thanks for your help
The witnesses on the marriage certificate where W.E. Fowler and E.E Bowman, theres also a V.L.Bowman as a third witness. Annie died in 1931 unfortunately so not on the 1939 register, which makes it so much harder.
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Thanks for that. Did they have children? If so what were their names - no Benjamin I suppose.
Just ruling out one Annie Smith - the one born Jun 1902 Lambeth with mothers name Fretwell as her father was Charles.
Don't think this one is her either - Annie Louisa Smith born Sep 1902 Lambeth with mothers name Woolger - father Albert Edward Smith.
Just starting with Lambeth births. Was her residence at time of marriage Lambeth or something else?
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Hi
They had a 1 son as far as i know called Thomas Alan Bowman in December 1928 born in Fulham London, hope that helps x
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Her address at the marriage was 50 Railton Road, Herne Hill x
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Thanks. Not having any luck with Benjamin Smith :-\
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I know its a hard one, but i appreciate your help. :) You would think a name like Benjamin would be fairly easy to find x
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Her address at the marriage was 50 Railton Road, Herne Hill x
Have you looked at the occupants of this address in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW57-NWH
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It's possible there was no Benjamin and he was a made up name but she could have just said deceased not given an occupation for him as well.
Yes Smith is a very tough one.
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Hi
I've just looked at the 1911 census for that address, even though the names are totally different, Edward Smith instead of Benjamin, and Daisy Smith instead of Annie, do you think its a possibility they could be related or even the people im looking for x
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Lambeth Archives (https://beta.lambeth.gov.uk/libraries-0/lambeth-archives) has an impressive collection of local directories, electoral rolls, and rate books and will probably do a quick lookup of who's there in 1926 for free. The directories only give one name, which may be unrelated if it's in multiple occupation or she's a lodger.
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Electoral registers are on ancestry.
Walter Edward Fowler and Annie Fowler were at 50 Railton Road in 1927.
Also there were William Arthur Lewis and Ada May Lewis.
1926, no one listed there
1925, Alfred Dupre, Sarah Dupre, Maria Hone, George William Thomas Myers
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Walter E Fowler married Annie Smith in Lambeth, Dec 1923. Any connection?
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1931 electoral register
163 Milkwood Road, Herne Hill
Annie Bowman
Thomas Bowman
Annie Fowler
Doris Harriet Fowler
Thomas Fowler (Jun.)
Thomas Fowler (Sen.)
Walter Edward Fowler
Both Thomas Fowlers being absent, NM voters.
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1932 electoral register
163 Milkwood Road, Herne Hill
No Annie Bowman.
The rest still there, plus a Bysouth couple.
Death, Dec 1931 Camberwell 1d 715
Bowman, Annie
age 29
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W
alter Edward Fowler
One of the marriage witnesses was W E Fowler
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Yes, Millie, you are correct.
Later there are Walter Edward Fowler and Annie Fowler at 17 Anmersh Grove, Harrow. Are they the same couple previously in Herne Hill? :-\
Free index to the 1939 Register has Walter and Annie both born in 1883.
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I wonder if Annie 'Fowler' is the mother of Annie 'Bowman'
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Could be, Rosie. Let's hope so!
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You guys are awesome, thanks loads for all this info i wasn't expecting as much as you have all come up with. im going to check it all out and hopefully fingers crossed i can find a connection to the Smith side and Annie Smiths family x
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You may need the Fowler / Smith marriage certificate.
Do let us know how you progress
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Thanks rosie99
Im going to order the cert for Annie and Walter tomorrow, i will post update when i have it x
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Thank you, Let us hope it gives a large clue :)
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Yes hopefully, im just trying to figure out who these other people where that are on the electrol roles with them, hopefully a clue there as well x
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No apparent Smiths at 163 Milkwood
Marriage Mar qtr 1931
Bysouth Edward E
Lovell Hannah W C
Lambeth 1d 283
Marriage Dec qtr 1912
Cooke Henry J
Wellavize Rowena
Lambeth 1d 710
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If you are looking for Annie Smith born to an Annie Smith, possibly illegitimate, one you may come across is the Annie Elizabeth Smith born 29 Aug 1901 in Lambeth Workhouse. Baptism same day.
Unfortunately the mother looks to be a few years older than Annie Fowler, and apparently was Annie Maria.
I don't know what happened to Annie Fowler. If that is them in Harrow in 1939, they were still there to about 1952 I think. Then I lose them, with possibly Walter dying in Camberwell later. All a bit messy :-\
Two things about the illegitimate birth in Lambeth. Mother Annie may have been born in November, but no record that I can find names a relative for her. She was apparently a cook, and there is a settlement exam on ancestry. Addresses she has been at are given, but she is not at the one she might be expected to be found in the 1901 census.
A coincidence is that the cause of her trouble, as she puts it, meaning the putative father of her child, was Walter Batchelor from 13 Railton Road, Herne Hill. A coincidence certainly, but probably only that.
His father seems to be William (says Walter here)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31952_a013090-00217
Another record here
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31363_a109806-00048
There was a removal order to Camberwell
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1557/images/31436_190169-01070
Just so you have some more info on this one, if you can get hold of those images. I am not saying she is the right one!
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Jonw65
Thanks for all that info, ill go and check all those adresses out and hopefully something will turn up, i have ordered Annie Smith and Walter Fowlers marriage cert so hoping that will give more answers as well x
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Jonw65
I have found Annie Smith in 1901 she is a domestic cook at 11 Alleyne Road West Dulwich, age 24, working for a Mr Wann, she states this address on one of the records that you sent a link to. Off to try and trace her, and hopefully her daughter Annie, in 1911 x
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Hi
Well done. I must have found the wrong address in 1901.
I think she must be Anna Maria Smith, born Horstead in Norfolk, daughter of Jacob and Elizabeth. She seems to have married Herbert Wiggett in Norwich in 1903.
There is some poor transcribing in the free index to the 1911 census, which has daughter Annie Elizabeth as South!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X75R-P5G
I think a look at the original will confirm things.
So sadly it seems those two Annies are not going to be the right ones. I haven't exactly been great help, sorry! So many Annie Smiths.
Good luck
John
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Hi jonw65
Thanks for your help, i've looked at the original 1911 census and its written as Annie Elizabeth Smith, so the transcription is way of with South. Ill have to wait for Annie Smith and Walter Fowlers marriage cert to come to continue i think, hopefully that will shed some light on whether she has been married previously.
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Hello
Would anyone be able to help me please locating the above lady. Her name was Annie Smith and she would be born around 1902 but i dont know where. She married in 1926 to Thomas William Bowman, she was 24 he was 21, in Lambeth London, her father was named on the marriage certificate as Benjamin Smith, occupation cab proprietor, deceased, but i cant find any info on her father either. Annie died in 1931 in Dulwich London of TB. I would love to know if she had any siblings and what her parents (mother) was called. Any help would be fantastic, thankyou in advance.
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Hi all
I received the marriage certificate today of Annie Smith and Walter Edward Fowler, and it shows that Annie Smith was a spinster when she married Walter on 12 November 1923, which means that her daughter, also Annie Smith, was definatly illigitimate when she had her around the 1902 mark. Annie Smith (mum) was 41 when she married Walter and she lived at 47 Beechdale Road in Norwood, Walter lived at 163 Milkwood Road, Hearne Hill, they married in Lambeth London. Annies father is down as Henry Smith, coal miner, deceased. If any of you lovely people could locate Henry Smith and Annie in the 1891/1901 census i would really appreciate it, im also going to look now. Thankyou in advancexx
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Hi
Thanks for letting us know the details! Father Henry a Coal Miner, a bit unexpected. It looks as though Annie was not from London. Makes it more challenging!
I've got a candidate, hope she lasts longer than the last one.
1891 census in St Mary Nottingham
Annie Smith, 8, born Nottingham
Daughter of Henry Smith, 39, Coalminer, and Mary Smith, 38
Siblings Eliza, 15, Sarah, 13, and Jack, 10
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4CNW-CZM
One piece of luck, the parents and the two older girls were born in Leicestershire. Eliza and Sarah born Ibstock, which was in Market Bosworth registration district.
From that it appears that Mary's maiden name was Clamp.
Annie's birth reg
SMITH, ANNIE
Mother's Maiden Surname: CLAMP
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in NOTTINGHAM 431 Volume 07B Page 389
That is the right quarter for Annie Fowler's birthday in the 1939 Register. Which said she was born in 1883, but your marriage cert could make her a year older.
1901 in Nottingham, piece 3168 folio 134 page 16
Henry Smith 50 Coal Miner
Mary Dina Smith 49
Jack Smith 20
Annie Smith 18 Lace Factory?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSNZ-NFL
Now it gets interesting.
Free index to 1911 census, St George the Martyr Southwark, London
Mary Dineah Smith 59, born Ibstock Leicestershire
Annie Smith 28 Dressmaker, born Nottingham
Annie Smith 8 born Hugerscote, Leicestershire (I think should be Hugglescote)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWPJ-8XK
They are boarding with someone.
So now we have an Annie Smith of the right age, daughter of a Henry Smith, Coal Miner, down in London. And she appears to have a daughter of her own called Annie.
Maybe
SMITH, ANNIE
Mother's Maiden Surname: —
GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in ASHBY-DE LA-ZOUCH Volume 07A Page 113
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Johnw65
Thankyou so much, i have had a look at the info and it definately looks like you have found the correct Annie Smith for me, im so glad i got the marriage certifcate as it opened up so much, espesially Annies father being a coal miner. Again thanks loads x