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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: George Shaw on Monday 26 April 21 18:31 BST (UK)
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The Bedford Brewing and Malting Company (BBMC) existed in Leigh, Lancashire, from 1866 and until 1901 although, under different names, the business both preceded and postdated that period. The creation of the BBMC in 1866 saw John Payne Pratt (JPP) as Company Secretary, a position he held until around 1868 at which point new Secretary, William Smith, took the reins. Am trying to learn more about JPP. All help welcome.
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Do you have him in censuses or BMD indexes?
Are you looking for further information?
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Do you have him in censuses or BMD indexes?
Are you looking for further information?
Nothing concrete in the Censuses. Not yet checked BMD.
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No, I can’t see anything yet either.
There are several newspaper snippets May 1866 re the company. I can’t see them but would think they are official notices.
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1851 census has a JPP from Ireland aged 23, living on Portland Street, Manchester, and described as a merchant's clerk.
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Maybe?
Electoral rolls 1870
John P Pratt , Hurst Fold, Bedford, Lancs
Occupier of house and land
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Yes,this one:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG5S-MZG
Difficult to figure out the relationships!
Maureen
EDIT:Sorry,heywood-just replying to George. ;)
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No, I can’t see anything yet either.
There are several newspaper snippets May 1866 re the company. I can’t see them but would think they are official notices.
A prospectus for the proposed new limited company appeared in the newspapers throughout 1866. Part transcription follows:-
The Bedford Brewing And Malting Company, Limited. (Leigh Chronicle, from at least 28 April 1866 to at least 24 November 1866)
CAPITAL (with power to increase) £100,000. In 20,000 shares of £5 each, of which 12,000 only will be issued in the first instance.
Payment on application £1, and on allotment £2 per share.
Future Calls not exceeding £1 per Share, and at intervals of not less than three months.
DIRECTORS:
WILLIAM VERNON, Hop Merchant, Manchester.
JOHN ED. SANDARS, Maltster, Gainsborough.
RICHARD GUEST, Cotton Spinner, Leigh.
RICHARD LEIGH, Firs Lane, Leigh.
RICHARD GREENOUGH, Innkeeper, Leigh.
BANKERS:
THE MANCHESTER AND DISTRICT BANKING COMPANY, Manchester, Liverpool, Warrington, Wigan, Leigh &c.
SOLICITORS:
Messrs. MARSH & BARRATT, Warrington.
AUDITORS:
Messrs. BROOME, CHILD, MURRAY & Co., Manchester.
SECRETARY:
John Payne Pratt.
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Maybe?
Electoral rolls 1870
John P Pratt , Hurst Fold, Bedford, Lancs
Occupier of house and land
Looks promising.
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1861 2883/51/7
Chorlton on Medlock
John Pratt 33 yrs Agent Woollen b Ireland
Eliza Pratt 33 yrs
Eliza Pratt 8 yrs
Lucy Pratt 7 yrs
Caroline Pratt 2 yrs
Children b Manchester
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There are published trees which indicate that the family emigrated to US about 1868/1870.
From a tree, John Payne Pratt is in Brooklyn Ward, Kings, NY in 1910 census
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Here is the 1910 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MP1M-HS3
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Oh boy....
Does this work:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qjy/
Maureen
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My goodness :o
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I'll say. :)
Maureen
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Oh boy....
Does this work:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qjy/
Maureen
Excellent. This certainly connects him to the family in the 1851 census.
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If I have the right family, they do seem interesting and it looks as though there is a bit of embroidery on the story in the obituary.
I think John Wesley was deceased before Eliza Wright’s birth.
However, this seems to be the family
Jeremiah Pratt married Margaret Slevin in 1819, Dublin Marriage indexes
Lancashire opc
Caroline Pratt baptised 1846 - Jeremiah and Margaret alias Mary Jane, Sleavin.
48 Moss Lane, Hulme
Father: Superior Barrack Sergeant.
Also mentions parents marriage 1829 :-\
Deaths 1947
March 9th
Margaret Mountain Pratt , 49 yrs, 48 Moss Lane
March 14th
Jeremiah Gully Pratt , 57 yrs Sup Barrack Sergeant, 48 Moss Lane
Both buried March 14th
Very sad.
Strange middle names.
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Can anyone help with a couple of related look-ups, please? They are US based and I only have a UK Ancestry subscription.
The main one is New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957, passenger John P. Pratt, born Ireland in 1827. Event is likely to have occurred c. 1868-1870.
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If someone else could look (my eyesight isn't very good)-I think the family arrives 8 Aug 1870
on the IDAHO.
John P PRATT (age 43)Eliza PRATT (age 42)......
Maureen
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Does this work?
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qjz/
Maureen
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This is likely to be him
Business entry
1873 - a bookkeeper
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6Z3Z-D22D
1870/1 he is a clerk
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6Z9T-Q9GN
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Does this work?
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qjz/
Maureen
Fine, thank you.
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This is likely to be him
Business entry
1873 - a bookkeeper
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6Z3Z-D22D
1870/1 he is a clerk
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6Z9T-Q9GN
Cheers, George.
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The UK 1871 Census was taken 2 April 1871 and the USA 1870 Census was taken 1 June 1870. The Pratt family emigrated to the USA in August 1870 so there can't be a Pratt return for that period?
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That sounds right :)
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Would be great if we could find JPP in 1890 and 1900! ;D
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You could look on Family Search for those censuses - probably not 1890 - most was destroyed in a fire.
Choose Family Search online here
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/United_States_Census_Online_Genealogy_Records
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You have 1910 already and I just checked obituary so you should find 1920 too. :)
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No Family Search option to search 1890 USA census for reason you alluded to. Tried 1900 USA census on the same site but to no avail.
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Would welcome a US probate look-up for the following death:-
Death Record
Name - John Payne Pratt
Sex - Male
Age - 99
Death Date - 2 Dec 1926
Death Place - Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States
Birth Year (Estimated) - 1827
Birthplace - Cork, Ireland
Marital Status - Widowed
Race - White
Father's Name - Jeremiah Pratt
Father's Sex - Male
Certificate Number - cn 23636
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This would indicate there is a probate record, I think
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qk7/
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Not sure here but it looks as though wills for that date not online :-\
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=Q7P1-923%3A213304601%3Fcc%3D1920234
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Thanks for trying. :)
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Found most of the family in 1892:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qk9/
(Last column of names on the right hand side).
John doesn't seem to be there,though.
Maureen
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1900:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qka/
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Good find. Thanks. Pratts/Platts!
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Good find Maureen :)
The immigration information looks a bit odd though and Caroline’s birthplace :-\
Unless John has been back and forth at one time.
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The 1900 data needs treating with some suspicion!!
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So annoying when they do that!
GRO: Births
PRATT, CAROLINE mmn WRIGHT
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 540
Maureen
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"Having earlier embarked from Liverpool & Queenstown, the Pratt family arrived in New York aboard the steamer "Idaho" on or around 8 Aug 1870. The party comprised, JPP (43), Eliza, wife (42), and daughters, Eliza (18), Caroline (13), Ada A. (7), and Rose L. (3)"
Would welcome a record showing details of the Liverpool outbound sailing, please. It may list the occupation of John Payne Pratt.
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"Having earlier embarked from Liverpool & Queenstown, the Pratt family arrived in New York aboard the steamer "Idaho" on or around 8 Aug 1870. The party comprised, JPP (43), Eliza, wife (42), and daughters, Eliza (18), Caroline (13), Ada A. (7), and Rose L. (3)"
Would welcome a record showing details of the Liverpool outbound sailing, please. It may list the occupation of John Payne Pratt.
You already have it - reply #19
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Would welcome a record showing details of the Liverpool outbound sailing, please. It may list the occupation of John Payne Pratt.
I don't know of any resources for outbound records that early,sorry.
Just as an aside-on the 1900 census record-the Alfred J PRATT who is listed as a son is actually Alfred J PATTERSON(see 1892 record)-the son of daughter Eliza.
FIND a GRAVE:
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qkf/
Maureen
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Cannot login at your link?
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Thanks to all. Much appreciated.
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Sorry! Gave the wrong link:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/139920180/alfred-joseph-patterson
That should work.
M
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Thanks.
I've dug out more on the emigration from Ancestry.com and the British Newspaper Archive:-
Emigration To USA
Having embarked from Liverpool on Wednesday 27 July 1870 then Queenstown, Ireland, on Thursday 28 July 1870, the Pratt family eventually arrived in New York aboard the Guion steamer "Idaho" on Sunday 7 August 1870 at 7.00 p.m.. The party comprised, John Payne Pratt (Labourer, 43), Eliza, wife (42), and daughters, Eliza (18), Caroline (13), Ada A. (7), and Rose L. (3).
EDIT - departure month typo amended from August to July as pointed out by MaureeninNY
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That’s the same information as reply #19 - the New York passenger list.
I thought it said ‘labr’ but wasn’t sure.
Maybe it was a way of classification as I think he wa# described as Clerk initially in NY.
It’s been very interesting. :)
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Not quite sure about your sailing dates,George? Maybe July?
Maureen
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That’s the same information as reply #19 - the New York passenger list.
I thought it said ‘labr’ but wasn’t sure.
Maybe it was a way of classification as I think he wa# described as Clerk initially in NY.
It’s been very interesting. :)
It's subtly different. Departure dates from Liverpool and Queenstown are now included and an amended date (and time) of arrival in the US has now been recorded.
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Not quite sure about your sailing dates,George? Maybe July?
Maureen
Typo, sorry. Post amended and accredited.
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Maybe?
Electoral rolls 1870
John P Pratt , Hurst Fold, Bedford, Lancs
Occupier of house and land
.........
FMPast newspapers:
(sorry-I'm not going to try):
instructions from Mr. J. F. Pratt, who is leaving England, |\TR. RICHA.U') will SELL AUCTION, Tuesday, July ]9. at Hurst House, Bedford, the’ HOUSEHOLD PURNITUKE, Ac., &c.. comprising very superior pianoforte, octaves, in walnut wood case, by eminent
July 16, 1870 - Leigh Chronicle and Weekly District Advertiser - Leigh,
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What a great find, thank you. Transcribed for others:-
Pre-Emigration Furniture Sale (Leigh Chronicle, 16 July 1870)
Pursuant to instructions from Mr. J.P. Pratt, who is leaving England,
MR. RICHARD GREENOUGH will SELL BY AUCTION, on TUESDAY, July 19, at Hurst House, Bedford, the HOUSEHOLD FURNITURE, &c., &c., comprising very superior pianoforte, 6¾ octaves, in walnut wood case, by an eminent maker; walnut wood music stool, mahogany do., walnut wood oval loo table, do. couch, excellent do. cabinet with glazed doors, beautifully inlaid with satin wood; 6 do. balloon-back chairs, upholstered in hair, and covered with green damask; lady's and gentleman's chairs, 2 do. footstools, en suite, with fine linen covers for the whole; mahogany pembroke table, 3 do. card do., 2 do. easy chairs in morocco leather and hair cloth, 6 mahogany chairs upholstered in hair and covered with hair cloth, do. sofa, small rosewood occasional table, brilliant plate chimney glass, 50 in. by 40 in., in handsome gilt frame, chimney ornaments, prints, engravings, cast fenders, fire irons, lobby oil cloth, cocoa fibre mats and matting, cut decanters, spirit squares, mahogany bookcase with cupboard and drawers underneath, a small library of books, containing sundry volumes by the Rev. G. Gilfillan, Davidson, Coleman, Shakespeare, Doddridge, &c; compound achromatic microscope, 2 objectives, 2 eye lenses, diaphragm plate, side condenser, analyser, polariscope, animalculae cage, and a few mounted objects; large silvered globe for lecturing purposes; iron, tudor, and French bedsteads, do. crib, 2 painted nests of drawers, do. gentleman's wardrobe, do. enclosed and other wash stands and dressing tables with suitable appointments, chair bedchamber wicker baskets, cane-seated bedroom chairs, night commode, step chair, perambulator, rosewood sofa with loose cushion upholstered in hair, square table, kitchen chairs, child's dining do., meat safe, paste boards, scales and weights, mortar and pestle, flour bin lined with tin, tin hastener and bottle jack, baskets, wringing machine by Townley, dolly and wash tubs, clothes horse, coffee mill, filter; copper brass, iron, tin, wood, and earthenwares in variety, kitchen and culinary utensils, &c.
Also, the Greenhouse Hot-water Heating Apparatus, stages, an excellent 4-light frame, pots and plants, patent lawn mower by Shanks, garden roller, scythe, rakes, hoes, and sundry tools; 2 stocks of Ligurian or Alp bees in Carr's patent bar frame hives, 2 swarms of do., in straw and wood hives, 2 stocks of black bees in Carr's patent bar frame hives, 2 swarms of do. in straw and box hives, wheelbarrow, three wire garden seats, rain tubs, tap and supports, and numerous miscellaneous effects.
On view the day prior to the sale.
Hurst House is centrally situated between Astley, Tyldesley, and Leigh, being near the Cemetery, and a few minutes' walk from Bedford Leigh Railway Station.
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What a perfect transcription!
May I ask (why?) about the interest in the J P PRATT family?
Maureen
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I have a general interest in the six breweries of Leigh in Lancashire. The buildings, the people and the history. All of the information I gather I record in a Wiki in a per brewery chronological sequence with multi-year 'gleanings' being inserted to cover stories like that of John Payne Pratt. The Bedford Brewing and Malting Company (BBMC) existed in Leigh, Lancashire, from 1866 and until 1901 although, under different names, the business both preceded and postdated that period. The creation of the BBMC in 1866 saw John Payne Pratt being appointed as Company Secretary, a position he held until around 1868/70 at which point new Secretary, William Smith, took the reins. Until I really started digging and with help from others, JPP was a bit of a mystery. Now we are clearer on the JPP story.
Thank you for your help to date, it is very much appreciated. :)
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Thank you .
Maureen
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Asking for a lookup please on Ancestry Worldwide. Funeral of Eliza Pratt in 1905.
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Can give you this do not have full access
Eliza W. PRATT
Residence Place: 1222 Deaa street
Obituary Date: 27 Mar 1905
Obituary Place: Brooklyn, New York, United States of America
Is this Eliza’s husband?
J. Pratt P
Death Age: 76
Birth Place: County Cork
Obituary Date: 3 Dec 1926
Obituary Place: Brooklyn, New York, United States of America
Spouse: Eliza Wright Pratt
U.S., Newspapers.com Obituary Index, 1800s-current
Hopefully someone will have access to give you full details
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Can give you this do not have full access
Eliza W. PRATT
Residence Place: 1222 Deaa street
Obituary Date: 27 Mar 1905
Obituary Place: Brooklyn, New York, United States of America
Is this Eliza’s husband?
J. Pratt P
Death Age: 76
Birth Place: County Cork
Obituary Date: 3 Dec 1926
Obituary Place: Brooklyn, New York, United States of America
Spouse: Eliza Wright Pratt
U.S., Newspapers.com Obituary Index, 1800s-current
Hopefully someone will have access to give you full details
Thank you. Your second snippet is Eliza's husband, John Payne Pratt, but his age at death in December 1926 was 99 years. The other detail are correct.
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Perhaps the USA Board?
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Perhaps the USA Board?
Will try, thanks.
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See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=848817.msg7160975