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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: decor on Friday 30 April 21 20:17 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone
I'm trying to work my through my DNA matches after my mum recently took a test.
One thing that caught my attention on someone's tree was a Lydia Rolls born around 1798 in Speen. (One of my Rolls ancestors is playing hard to get).
Does anybody have access to the Speen parish records?
I know my ancestor, James, was born around 1812 and his father was called James.
Can anybody find Lydia's baptism?
Could be and probably is a total dead end, but worth looking into.
Thanks if you anybody can help.
decor :) :) :)
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I can't do a previous thread (perhaps another Contributor can)....
yelsel on the 7 October 1817 - is researching the ROWLES family of Newbury, which is about 1.5 miles from Spleen
and
candrjm quotes the 2 families recorded in Joseph Toomer's Census for Newbury in 1815
Abode: Morris's Yard West Side of Market Place Newbury
ROWLES
Thomas aged 37
Hannah aged 35
Elizabeth aged 12
Thomas Brookes Rowles aged 7
Mary aged 4
Hannah Rowles infant
Abode: Be Yard East Side of Bartholomew Street Newbury
ROWLS
Joseph aged 55
Lydia aged 51
Heater aged 14
Sarah aged 11
William Nelson Rowls aged 9
Joseph Rowls aged 7
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Could you give any more information on your James born around 1812 - (census returns etc)
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Thanks for the reply, Capetown.
Here's what I know about my ancestor:
On 16 Mar 1840 in Steventon, Berkshire:
James Rolls full age bachelor labourer son of James Rolls labourer
married Martha Prew full age spinster daughter of James Prew labourer
witnesses: James Dunsdon and Elizabeth Bonning
On the 1841 census, Martha Roles is with her parents and sister's family in Steventon. I have no idea where James is, which is frustrating, as if he'd been with his wife, I could have at least seen if he was born in the county.
On 29 Sep 1844, James and Martha baptise their daughter Esther. The surname is listed at Rolles and James is listed as a labourer. The birth is registered in the September quarter of 1844 under the surname Rolls. I haven't got the birth certificate.
I can't see any other births registered to this couple, which is a bit unexpected seeing as though Esther was born four years after their marriage.
James died in 1845. His death is registered in the December quarter of 1845 under the surname Rowles, aged 33. I don't have the certificate. He was buried on 15 Dec 1845 in Steventon, aged 33 under the surname Rolles.
Martha, his wife, remarried in 1848.
It's not much to go on, just a rough birth year of 1812 and that his father was also called James. No idea where he came from.
So when I saw a DNA match with a Lydia Rolls from Speen in their tree, I thought it might be worth pursuing.
Maybe a brickwall for the time being. :)
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The witness : James DUNSDON
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My x Grandmother - married 3 times......
Her second marriage in West Hanney (which is just about a few miles from Steventon) on th 31 December 1842 (I've got the Certificate) was to
Henry DUNSDON - a labourer - of West Hanney - father William DUNSDON - occupation: Sawyer
to
Mary JOHNSON (Widow)*** - father: Thomas WAYNE
*** my x Grandmother
Witnesses: James DUNSDON - his mark and Esther WAYNE
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so I will look at your tree closely for you.. and have a look through my files.
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thanks, Capetown :) I appreciate it!
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Checked with the GRO INDEX - as you say, there is only one birth registered
ROLLS, Esther
Mother's maiden name: PREW
GRO Reference: S Quarter in Abingdon Union - Volume 06 Page 138
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If Esther isn't from the mother's side, then it must be from James'.
There is a Public Members Tree on Ancestry for an
Esther ROWLES, birth 1801, Newbury, Berkshire (unknown parents)
who married
Charles GOUGH, 26 January 1823, St Nicholas, Newbury
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Thanks, Capetown.
Hopefully one day the Berkshire parish records will be digitised and made available online!
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Thanks for the reply, Capetown.
Here's what I know about my ancestor:
On 16 Mar 1840 in Steventon, Berkshire:
James Rolls full age bachelor labourer son of James Rolls labourer
married Martha Prew full age spinster daughter of James Prew labourer
witnesses: James Dunsdon and Elizabeth Bonning
On the 1841 census, Martha Roles is with her parents and sister's family in Steventon. I have no idea where James is, which is frustrating, as if he'd been with his wife, I could have at least seen if he was born in the county.
On 29 Sep 1844, James and Martha baptise their daughter Esther. The surname is listed at Rolles and James is listed as a labourer. The birth is registered in the September quarter of 1844 under the surname Rolls. I haven't got the birth certificate.
I can't see any other births registered to this couple, which is a bit unexpected seeing as though Esther was born four years after their marriage.
James died on 12th December 1845 in Steventon due to inflammation of the brain, aged 33. His job was listed as a blanket weaver. The informant on the death certificate was Sarah Slatter, who was present at the death. She seemed to be living next door to James's parents-in-law, James and Martha Prew on the 1851 census and also close by on the 1841 census. I'm not sure if she was just a neighbour or a relative somehow. Her maiden name was Blagrove and she was born in 1786 in Sutton Wick in the parish of Sutton Courtenay, Berkshire. (She could just be a red herring; no Rolls in Sutton Courtenay parish registers).
He was buried on 15 Dec 1845 in Steventon, aged 33 under the surname Rolles.
Martha, his wife, remarried in 1848.
It's not much to go on, just a rough birth year of 1812 and that his father was also called James. No idea where he came from.
So when I saw a DNA match with a Lydia Rolls from Speen in their tree, I thought it might be worth pursuing.
Maybe a brickwall for the time being. :)
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? What tree is Lydia Rolls on?
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? What tree is Lydia Rolls on?
The Stillman-Shelley tree from Ancestry user Jon Moya.
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There appear to be a few Public Members Tree on Ancestry for Lydia ROWLES/ROLES - who married James STRUGNELL.....
one giving her baptism in Warrington Cheshire - although census returns say she was born in Speen, Berkshire. The family seem to live in many different Counties - as James STRUGNELL was a Coachmaker -
The family appear to be baptised, one Son
William Stephen West Strugnell - birth date 31 March 1832,
birth place: North Croft Lane Baptists, Newbury, Berkshire
father: James STRUGNELL and Lydia
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? may be one of the middle names of the children for example WEST is from the mother's side
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Although Lydia appears on later census returns, there is a burial of
Lydia ROWLES, 16 June 1828, Newbury, Berkshire
Newbury, Northcroft Lane Meeting House (Baptist)
These are to certify that Lydia ROWLES, aged 64 years wife of John ROWLES of Newbury in the County of Berkshire was interred in the Burial Ground belonging to the Baptist Congregation at Newbury in the County of Berks on the sixteenth day of June in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and twenty eight.
Registered by me: June 20 1828, Thomas WELSH, Protestant Dissenting Minister.
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Don't know where I'm going on this, but may help
Burial again Non-Conformist - Newbury, Northcroft lane Meeting House
1830
John Sandford ROWLES aged 37 years, Son of John ROWLES of Newbury in the County of Berkshire, was interred in the Burial Ground belonging to the Baptist Congregation at Newbury in Berkshire - 16th day of August 1830
and on Ancestry - baptism at Kings Stanley - 1824
31 December
John Sanford ROWLES
son of John - Agent to the Cannel at Newbury Berkshire
and Eleanor ROWLES, abode: Leonard Stanley -
at the Baptism of the above, John Sandford ROWLES it was stated by his Father was born 4th May 1792
This family seems to be up and down the Waterways.
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Thanks for checking that all out, Capetown, I appreciate it.
Maybe, as more and more people take DNA tests, things will become clearer.
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On James' death - 12 December 1845 - his job is listed as a blanket weaver and cause of death inflammation of the brain.
? checked on Google under
Old Disease Names Frequently found on Death Certificates
Sirisis - Inflammation of the brain due to sun exposure
and second, James' occupation was a blanket weaver.
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Looking at the 1851 census - Martha has re-married a Shepherd - and going through the occupations of the neighbours etc., they appear to be labourers, shepherds etc. no-one is listed as a blanket weaver.
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? Was a blanket weaver a local occupation - or did he work up North - (according to other trees the family, Lydia was christened up there).
Just reading about Witney Blankets
Genuine Witney Blanket Story - Witney and the Industrial Revolution.
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There are quite a few ROWLES on the 1841 census for Witney - who are Spinners, Wool Weavers etc. and also earlier Criminal Records for James/William ROWLES in Oxfordshire.
1841 census for Witney Oxfordshire
does have
James ROWLES - aged 70 - Ag lab - and on the 1851 census, he is aged 84 - living with his daughter Lydia SMITH - all born in the Hamlet of Haile, Witney, Oxfordshire.
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Baptism 3 March 1811 -
Hailey with Crawley, Oxfordshire
James ROWLES, parents: James and Hannah ROWLES
other records on Ancestry.
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Baptism at Hailey with Crawley - 21 March 1813
Lidya ROWLES - parents: James & Hannah
there is quite a list of children
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yes! I only got the death certificate through yesterday.
I was quite surprised by his profession being blanket weaver as it didn't seem to match Steventon at all.
On top of that, I'd also seen a James Rowles baptised in Hailey (a couple of miles from Witney) in 1811, son of James and Hannah. Being from the Witney area myself, as soon as I saw the words blanket weaver, I thought of Witney.
But it seems this James Rowles (the father) was an agricultural labourer, nonetheless his son could've worked as a blanket weaver.
I'm tempted to splash out on his daughter Esther's birth certificate to see if his profession is listed as blanket weaver then too!
So perhaps the James Rowles baptised in Hailey in 1811 is the man I'm looking for.
I'll try to find descendants of the possible brothers and sisters and see if there are any DNA matches (although they would be a small amount).
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Baptism at Hailey with Crawley - 21 March 1813
Lidya ROWLES - parents: James & Hannah
there is quite a list of children
This Lydia married a Thomas Smith in Witney in 1841 and then later a James Holloway.
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We always had Witney Blankets in the Winter -
Family Christian names are always so useful in research as they are used for many generations.
Can see - at Witney, Oxfordshire
20 June 1813, William (Weaver) & Esther ROWLES named their daughter Esther
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?
1841 Census, Witney Oxfordshire
West End
John DYKE - 20 - all born in County
Rachel DYKE - 30
John DYKE - 5 months
James ROWLES - 25
(need to check who John DYKE married)
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?
1841 Census, Witney Oxfordshire
West End
John DYKE - 20 - all born in County
Rachel DYKE - 30
John DYKE - 5 months
James ROWLES - 25
(need to check who John DYKE married)
I've seen this before. And I seem to remember it coming to nothing, but that was many years ago and I have totally forgotten.
Yes: John Dyke and Rachel Hale married in Charlbury in 1838, you can find them in the 1851 census in Charlbury with son John aged 10 born Witney.