RootsChat.Com

General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 17:46 BST (UK)

Title: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 17:46 BST (UK)
On the 1939 Register it lists Alfred J Edwards Snr. born 13 Apr 1896. His son is Alfred J Edwards Jnr. and I know the J is John, so I assume his father was also Alfred John. On the GRO database, there are 7 listed for that quarter, all are Alfred Edwards, without the John. If I contact the GRO, from the name and date of birth, is it possible for them to establish the birth certificate I need to buy, as I do not want to order all 7? I have checked a few quarters before in case it was a late registration, but found nothing.
Talacharn
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Pennines on Monday 03 May 21 17:50 BST (UK)
Who did Alfred J Edwards senior marry? If you know that you will know the mother's maiden name and be able to locate the correct birth.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 03 May 21 17:52 BST (UK)
I would find the marriage for Alfred J and Jane.  Then see what you can find for the birth of Benjamin in 1916.  That should narrow it down.

Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 17:58 BST (UK)
Marriage: Alfred J. Edwards . Jane Williams
Jul-Sep 1916 . Merthyr T . Volume 11a . Page 1246

Benjamin has mmn/ and Alfred J has mmn Williams

I can find Jane but not Alfred J Snr. It would seem from the ones listed, he was not born in Wales.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 03 May 21 17:58 BST (UK)
His brother  :-\
Births Sep qtr1916   
Edwards    Benjamin    mmn Williams   
Merthyr T.    11a   1585

Births Dec qtr 1917   
Edwards    Alfred J    mmn Williams    Merthyr T.    11a   1403   

Marriage Sep qtr 1916 
Edwards    Alfred J   
Williams    Jane    
Merthyr T.    11a   1246   
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 18:06 BST (UK)
From the marriage and Merthyr I know and it fits with my family tree.
She was born in Merthyr, but he must have moved there from England.
Trying to find his birth is the 1 of 7.
Added: Births of that Quarter
Chorlton mmn Carter
Ludlow mmn Glumer
Atcham mmn Diggory
West Bromwich mmn Corbett
Prescot mmn Evans
Runcorn mmn Christie
York mmn Dodds
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Comberton on Monday 03 May 21 18:40 BST (UK)
There are these deaths

Alfred Edwards Jun 1896 age 0 in Atcham
Alfred Edwards Mar 1897 age 0 in Chorlton  CORRECTED
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Comberton on Monday 03 May 21 18:45 BST (UK)
Also
Alfred Edwards Mar 1897 age 0 in York
Alfred Edwards Mar 1898 age 1 in Prescot
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 19:00 BST (UK)
Thanks Comberton,
At least 3 is better than 7.
My hunch is the West Bromwich birth. I have no proof yet, hence the question.
The family married within circles. Some lead to the Merthyr/Aberdare areas and others arrived from the West Midlands, but at present, I cannot connect this family between the two. There could also be traveller links.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Comberton on Monday 03 May 21 19:17 BST (UK)
Sorry, not West Brom
Baptism
Alfred Edwards
born 27th April 1896
baptised 20th May 1896
West Bromwich St James
Alfred and Sarah Ann
He is in West Bromwich in 1939 with wife Hazel
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 19:30 BST (UK)
Thanks, I had found them, but only using Family Search, not the 1939 reference. There is a death for an Alfred Edwards after the 1939 Register, which suggested the right birth year, so I was a little unsure.
That leaves Ludlow and Runcorn. I will look for both with the mmn. Either would be a surprise.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 03 May 21 19:37 BST (UK)
If we are going strictly by his birth date of 13 April 1896 that would put the registration into the June quarter.

For the June quarter of 1896 the below birth is the only one that comes up for an Alfred J

EDWARDS, ALFRED  JAMES     ROGERS 
GRO Reference: 1896  J Quarter in PLYMOUTH  Volume 05B  Page 239

There are no other Alfred J Edwards for that quarter.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 20:22 BST (UK)
I noticed the Alfred James Edwards birth, but could not link it. The son was referred to as junior, and Alfred John, so I feel Alfred senior should also be John. Now I have found this death record, that confirms it is not the right person.
Death: Alfred James Edwards . Birth: 30 Apr 1896
Apr-Jun 1972 . Plymouth, Devon . Volume 7A . Page 1962
But there is no Alfred John Edwards, so I assume he was registered only as Alfred.

I have found both the Runcorn and Ludlow Alfred Edwards on census records and it could be either.
ADDED: I cannot find a marriage between Edwards and Glumer.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Comberton on Monday 03 May 21 20:58 BST (UK)
In case this is the one
Baptism
Alfred Edwards
baptised 2nd August 1896
Runcorn All Saints
Thomas and Mary Ann
49 Nelson Street, Runcorn
father was a labourer

Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 21:21 BST (UK)
Thanks Comberton, That is the Runcorn one I found. The Ludlow one is more of a challenge.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 03 May 21 21:35 BST (UK)
May I strongly recommend that you obtain the marriage certificate for Alfred and Jane?  That way you will know definitely what his second name is.

I can appreciate that the two Alfred's are designated as Snr and Jnr on the 1939 but that does not necessarily mean that both of them have the same second name.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 21:51 BST (UK)
I agree. The marriage is right, which should give his father's name and occupation. I do have marriage certificates for my family, where I know the name given is wrong, because the father was not known, so used grandfather or uncle.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 03 May 21 21:54 BST (UK)
If, for whatever reason, Alfred Snr's birth was registered late, then there is this one:-

EDWARDS, ALFRED  JOHN     RIPPON 
GRO Reference: 1896  S Quarter in HUNTINGDON  Volume 03B  Page 277

This is in Cambridgeshire.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Girl Guide on Monday 03 May 21 22:00 BST (UK)
The 1901 census for that birth shows Alfred's father is John.

Living at Great Whyte, Ramsey, Huntingdon, Huntingdonshire & Cambridgeshire

John and Amy with four children.  John's occupation is coalman labourer.

Registration district   Huntingdon
Archive reference   RG13
Piece number   1470
Folio   30
Page   19
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: carol8353 on Monday 03 May 21 22:43 BST (UK)
For that period you should be able to get a PDF of the birth sent to your computer for just £7.

Usual price for a full cert would be £11.

Incase you have more than one to purchase.
Title: Re: GRO Birth Certificate 1 of 7
Post by: Talacharn on Monday 03 May 21 23:17 BST (UK)
I have looked at the Cambridgeshire census and I am unsure. Alfred J Edwards Jnr. was my Uncle Alf in Carmarthenshire and born in Hirwaun near Merthyr Tydfil. He was around 5ft 5ins, wiry, spoke Welsh and looked more tinker/traveller. Great Whyte, Ramsey, Huntingdonshire was the main road and his brother was a trainee hairdresser. I should not judge, but I do not see the connection.
I do have PDFs, but before I buy a birth certificate the answer should be found on their marriage certificate, which I will order, but marriages are only a paper version.