RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: MiniFlick on Thursday 06 May 21 13:05 BST (UK)
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Hi!
I'm on the hunt for a proposed Grandfather! The brief version is that...
Charles 'Wag' Morris 1909 - 1982, the grandfather I'm looking for, was actually born George Brown - St Marloes Workhouse or Marloes Rd. Kensington around 1909, and formally or informally adopted by Charles and Annie Morris.
Thanks to an ancestry DNA test the closest realative we have that isnt from any other line has a very small tree - But does have a Lillian Brown - Born ? London, UK, Died ? Seattle, King, Washington, USA
She had one son in 1925 also in Seattle 1925
Now I cannot find any info on her- or anything to back up my thoughts BUT if Lillian Brown had a child that was adopted out, and then moved to USA this could be the link!
I am a little hopeless at finding anything and am looking for help!
Thankyou so much in advance ... Flick xxx
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I'm on the hunt for a proposed Grandfather! The brief version is that...
Charles 'Wag' Morris 1909 - 1982, the grandfather I'm looking for, was actually born George Brown - St Marloes Workhouse or Marloes Rd. Kensington around 1909, and formally or informally adopted by Charles and Annie Morris.
Where are they all in 1911. What is the source of this information
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In 1911 Charles & Annie Morris are in 38 Stebbing Street, Notting Hill, with George Brown 1yr & Annie Bruce 13yrs
(In 1901 Charles & Annie live alone in Kensington)
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Associated thread for a bit of background.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=847264.0
Debra :)
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Thank you Debra :). I wonder if the two posts would be better merged as they are still relating to the original post.
I also think that the 1921 census may help with this search, it is not that long to wait now. Presumably if he was born in the workhouse then their records should include him. It is possible that his birth date is also incorrect.
The link to Lilian in USA seems a bit tenuous with no dates for her birth or death. I think it would be better if you could get more information on her without initially trying to link her to George Brown. Once you have some more information on her you could do a separate post purely on her and see where it takes us.
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Thanks guys -
Yeah as you can imagine I'm getting nowhere fast. Still not 100% sure what i'm doing so just trying to make some connections!
The DNA has helped as I've managed to exclude people connected via the 3 other grandparents. So trying to work backwards to accertain how/who/what is going on so we can atleast find out who Charles 'Wag' was and continue back through the family tree!!
Again any help is so so appreciated.
F xx
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Basically i need anyone to find me some birth records for George Brown! I've spent all day trawling not able to find anything of use! ???
Just at a total dead end at this moment in time!
F xx
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The trouble is that the date of birth you have for him could be wrong, just one that he was 'given' when taken in by the Morris's.
Sadly DNA is not the answer to everything and family history research often puts these brick walls in our way. As I suggested if you are supposed to link to this Lilian who died in Canada then you need to research her in the hope that she will link to George.
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Just taking a wild guess here but is she the Lillian Rose BROWN who married? Lonnie/Alonzo BARTH?
USA census
1920/1930/1940
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MHFP-T1V
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XC3H-ZN5
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K93H-Q75
Alonzo is at home with his parents in 1910
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MGVD-RMC
It seems he had aspirations to be an actor. The home address on this passport application is the same as the 1910 census.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9DX-WJPN
London 1913, music hall artist:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99DX-4GL
Melba (Joanne) born 1915 was their daughter together - 10 years between children is a long time.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TX-G974-T
Debra :)
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Her grave plaque states she was born in 1888, and given her son's name I would have thought this is her birth.
BROWN, LILIAN ROSE
Mother's maiden surname: PERRY
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in CHELSEA Volume 01A Page 373
This child appears to be the daughter of John BROWN and Rose PERRY.
Debra :)
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following the USA line
Lonnie and Lilian had 2 children (both deceased)
Melba Rose Barth 29 September 1915 who married Frank G Hoskins 21 September 1940 as Joanne Barth she died 2008.
Perry Lonnie Barth born 25 June 1925 died 13 May 2018.
He married 1985 and parents are Lillian Rose Brown Barth and Lonnie Barth
Ten years between these children and the son named Perry, looks like a connection to the entry "Dundee" found
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Notes
Mrs. Lonnie Barth applies for a passport (at the American Embassy in Rome) granted 14 November 1914 states she left USA 20 July 1910 and has been traveling Europe with her husband Lonnie Barth.
Gives her DOB as about 12 July 1888 London England.
Proof of marriage was shown as 10 October 1914 in Rome.
They arrive in USA 23 February 1915. listed as Lonnie Barth and wife Lily.
Her description age 26
5'2" height, fair complexion, brown hair, hazel eyes, large nose.
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Her grave plaque states she was born in 1888, and given her son's name I would have thought this is her birth.
BROWN, LILIAN ROSE
Mother's maiden surname: PERRY
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in CHELSEA Volume 01A Page 373
This child appears to be the daughter of John BROWN and Rose PERRY.
Debra :)
1901 Stowe Road, Hammersmith
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X94C-QY5
Probable death for mother Rose
Deaths Dec 1905
BROWN Rose age 49
Fulham reg dist 1a 157
By 1911 John Brown has remarried to Nellie, no children with them.
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The Workhouse on Wrights Lane now called Marloes Road was St Mary Abbots, by 1890 it also included St Margaret and St John.
The London Metropolitan Archives has the records, specifically the Guardian minute books
address 40 Northampton Street, London E.C.1 R OHB
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Thats some great info. Yes the right Lilian!
I'm trying to trace her on workhouse records, or the birth of George brown to see if I can make that connection (to confirm it might be the right one!) but keep hitting paywalls.
Thanks for the great work all!
F xx
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Information on Kensington Workhouse
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Kensington/
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Hi all!
Just a little update to this:
I have now confirmed through the DNA that the Lillian Rose Brown b.1888 is indeed a relative - sealing it in my mind that George Brown was adopted at an early age and renamed to Charles Morris.
I have been in contact with her descendants (in the USA) and we are looking to confirm that Lillian is Georges Mother, not aunt or other relative.
The way to do this would be a birth certificate or record: So once again i'm asking for your help! How do I find this birth certificate and order it?
TIA
Felicity