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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Hootsman on Sunday 09 May 21 16:09 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
I am trying to establish the birth data for Johanna Pepper who was born about 1886 in Airth, Stirlingshire, Scotland. I believe she emigrated to Wellington, New Zealand in 1908 and married Robert Dunn Johnston in 1910. I am unable to find a birth registration for her although I have her with her siblings and parents in the 1891 and 1901 Scottish Census, which gives me an indication of her year of birth. The most reliable method of confirming that the Johanna referred to is my Great Aunt is if in her marriage certificate her father James Pepper, who was a Fisherman, is mentioned or any reference to her place of birth being Airth in Stirlingshire, Scotland.
Any help in sourcing this information is greatly appreciated.
Kind Regards,
John
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A James Pepper married a Marion Taylor 1875.
There is a birth registration for Marion Taylor Pepper, 1878, Airth and Albert Pepper, 1882, Airth which would appear to fit the 1901 Census.
Yet to spot a Johanna or similar.
A Johanna Pepper sailed for Wellington on the "Arawa", May 1908 and a Pepper appears amongst the passengers arriving July - but no initial/given name legible(from Papers Past).
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The 1875 marriage and birth of Euphemia pre. this date was a puzzle but I see from the 1881 Census there were 4 step children in the household?
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This doesn't answer your question but some details which may be of interest:
1966/35802 Johnston Johanna 81Y [Her death?]
1932/10122 Johnston Robert Dunn 56Y
Death details:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NEM19320725.2.46?end_date=31-12-1932&query=robert+dunn+johnston&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1932
Uncle & nephew:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/THD19320716.2.160?end_date=31-12-1932&items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=robert+dunn+johnston&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1932
Minniehaha.
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WW1 file of Robert Dunn Johnston:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=18054154&digital=yes
He declared in 1917 that he was 'single'.
Marriage:
1910/6010 Johanna Pepper Robert Johnston
[Name of 'Dunn' not recorded at this time. Is Robert Dunn Johnston the correct man?]
Minniehaha.
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Hello John
Mmm ... not sure where you got the name Robert Dunn JOHNSTON from ??
Johanna PEPPER is recorded as having married a Robert JOHNSTON -1910
These children of the marriage >
JOHNSTON
1911 - Marion Frances
1913 - John William Robert
1914 - Thelma Ruth
1916 - N/R - stillborn
Parents : Johanna and Robert JOHNSTON.
All appear to have been born in Auckland, NZ - though Marion Frances birth place not stated.
~ Lu see next > >
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Death of Johanna JOHNSTON :
Record from Purewa Cemetery, Auckland, NZ
Johanna JOHNSTON
aged 81 years
Birth year : c 1885
Born : Scotland
Died : 29 September 1966
Last address: 110 Lillington Road, Remuera, Auckland
Relative : Mr B.* JOHNSTON (son)
[Note: *Initial "B" for relative (son) may be incorrect. - Seems she had just the one son ?? ]
~ Lu see next > >
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Probate record (with Will) for Johanna JOHNSTON >
https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE61155957
~ Lu
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This doesn't answer your question but some details which may be of interest:
1966/35802 Johnston Johanna 81Y [Her death?]
1932/10122 Johnston Robert Dunn 56Y
Death details:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NEM19320725.2.46?end_date=31-12-1932&query=robert+dunn+johnston&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1932
Uncle & nephew:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/THD19320716.2.160?end_date=31-12-1932&items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=robert+dunn+johnston&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1932
Minniehaha.
Just to clarify the Robert Dunn JOHNSTON and John William JOHNSTON connection ...
The boy, John aged 18 years, was John William Robert JOHNSTON the son of Mary Ann and John Henry JOHNSTON. He was buried at Aramoho Cemetery, Wanganui, - b/son of ... ^ above ... accidentally killed at Matarawa, 15 July 1932.
[NZ BDM - Births - 2 x boys named John William Robert JOHNSTON -- 1 born 1913 at Auckland to Johanna and Robert JOHNSTON ... the other, birth registered 1914 at Waverley (Taranaki) would be the John who died 1932. ]
~ Lu
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The most reliable method of confirming that the Johanna referred to is my Great Aunt is if in her marriage certificate her father James Pepper, who was a Fisherman, is mentioned or any reference to her place of birth being Airth in Stirlingshire, Scotland.
Any help in sourcing this information is greatly appreciated.
Hi John
Short of you purchasing a "printout" copy of the NZ marriage record for Johanna PEPPER, the next best thing would be to try and find a "family tree" at one of the online sites which may (or may not) contain reliable information. Perhaps too, there might be a marriage notice in a newspaper or similar.
Unfortunately, we only have access to marriage index which does not give parental information.
~ Lu
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Hi again John
Have just had a very quick peep at family trees published at ancestry.com. There are 16 or so for the Johanna* / Robert JOHNSTON family ... several record the Robert Dunn JOHNSTON (died 1932) as her husband - but give little in the way of additional information for him. (I'd therefore be very cautious about information contained in these . ;D )
[ * Johanna PEPPER born Airth .. etc. ]
Will see what else can be found.
~ Lu
Edit to correct spelliign spelling
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Hi John
Well, just as some sort of clarification that Johanna's husband was not Robert Dunn JOHNSTON, this from electoral rolls >
As already mentioned earlier, Johanna and Robert's children were born in Auckland.
1911 - Auckland West electoral roll
JOHNSTON - Johanna - married
JOHNSTON - Robert - Tram conductor ... both at 16 Bayfield Road
They are also together at Auckland West (at a new address, Albany Road) in years 1914 and 1919.
Skipping to 1935 - Auckland - Parnell electoral roll
Added : All still at same address in 1938 - Remuera roll with exception of Thelma Ruth.
JOHNSTON
- Johanna - married
- Robert - motorman*
- John William Robert - salesman
- Thelma Ruth - spinster
- Marion Frances - spinster ... all residing at 6a Lillington** Road
[Note : *Looks like Robert has by this time graduated to being a driver of trams (motorman) ?
** Lillington Road - same as given in Johanna's cemetery record. ]
So that info would seem to eliminate the Robert Dunn JOHNSTON. ;D
~ Lu
Edit to amend text
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Johanna JOHNSTON - burial
https://www.purewa.co.nz/view/?id=19044
Same plot at Purewa Cemetery >
Robert JOHNSTON - died 3 June 1952
https://www.purewa.co.nz/view/?id=28089
~ Lu
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... and just for extra good measure, burial record of Robert Dunn JOHNSTON (not the husband of Johanna).
Waverley Cemetery, Taranaki NZ
Robert Dunn JOHNSTON - d. 14 July 1932 - 56 years ,
Commemorated with Father: Robert / Mother: Naomi / and sister Ethel Florence (d. aged 4yrs in 1894) :
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Birth of children:
1911/858 Johnston Marion Frances Johanna Robert
1913/14086 Johnston John William Robert Johanna Robert -
1916/4666 Johnston NR Johanna Robert S
1914/3910 Johnston Thelma Ruth Johanna Robert -
Marriage:
1937/12714 Thelma Ruth Johnston Raymond Douglas McLean
Death:
1990/42508 McLean Thelma Ruth 1 July 1914
Death:
1994/47081 McGregor Marion Frances 2 March 1911
Minniehaha.
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Probated will of Raymond Douglas McLean:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=189279&digital=yes
Probated will of husband of Marion Frances:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=13100471&digital=yes
Minniehaha.
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Marriage:
1939/6604 Margaret Kathleen Dawson John William Robert Johnston
Death:
1995/51214 Johnston John William Robert 27 February 1913
Minniehaha.
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The probated will of Thelma Ruth would indicate she had another sibling.
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=8443226&digital=yes
Minniehaha.
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I mentioned at post #3 there were step children on the 1881 Census. Surnames were Irvine and Livingstone.
It's not unknown for grandparents to take an illegitimate child of an offspring as their "own" and this did cross my mind re. Johanna. She appears to be the last born from Census details.
There is an Airth birth registration of a "Joan Irvine, 1884". You may want to check what happened to this child to rule her out of the equation?
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Thank you all very much, some of the info I already have, however Lu, you have given me the confirmation that Johanna was born in Scotland and that is exactly what I needed. What caused my uncertainty if I have been following the wrong person was the ships arrival data for Johanna which stated she was English and her age at this time was 26. She should have been Scottish and 22 years old, and further when I checked the birth records for a Johanna Pepper born in England and 26 years old, I found a birth that matched this. So now I am elated that Johanna's death record confirms she was born in Scotland.
I thank you very much for your help.
Best Regards,
John
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Hello John
Glad the information was of help.
Yes, that was certainly strange, your Johanna's details on the New Zealand Immigration list matching those of her English namesake. I looked at the shipping line's passenger list and it (surprisingly) didn't show any ages for passengers, though did have Johanna recorded as "English".
I had meant earlier to also to add the burial details for Johanna's husband (now that it's established he was not Robert Dunn Johnston).
As previously > Purewa Cemetery, Auckland, NZ > he shares a plot with Johanna.
Robert JOHNSTON
70 years [bc 1882]
Occupation : Retired
Birthplace : Ireland
Burial date : 5 June 1952
Last Address : 10 Lillington Road
Relative Info : Mrs Johanna JOHNSTON (wife)
Address - as above
____ / / ____
~ Lu
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Once again everyone,
Many thanks for all your help. I am more than happy with the information provided by you and have deleted the info on Robert Dunn Johnston as he is not the correct husband of Johanna Pepper.
Your help is very much appreciated.
Stay safe and Kind Regards,
John
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Carluke & Lanark Gazette
29 October 1926
On Friday morning last, about 9.50, James Pepper, 80, retired fisherman, passed away suddenly at Tinto View, Kilncadzow, where he resided with a married daughter. It appears that deceased, who had been in failing health for some time, went to the rear of the house, and on his failing to return his daughter, Mrs Jackson, sent her son to see what was keeping his grandfather. Failing to see him the mother and son later found deceased lying on the floor of an outhouse. Dr M'Lean was called in, and after examining the body, declared the death to be due to natural causes.
31 December 1926
Obituaries for 1926 - October 22, James Pepper, Kilncadzow, age 79
Marriage Registration (Scotland's People)
Marion T Pepper & John Jackson, Blythswood, 1908