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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: fjyod on Monday 10 May 21 00:43 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone,
I've hit another ending to a family line, but I'm convinced I'm just doing something wrong. If anyone can help me find out more about this ancestor, I would be very grateful:
Her name is Caroline Key, and she was born about 1833 somewhere in Cheshire. I know for a fact she passed away 1873 in Congleton, Cheshire. She married her husband Paul Bailey in 1851 in Biddulph, Staffordshire, however, one census transcript which I cannot remember claimed that Caroline was born in "Green", Cheshire, but I think it may have meant Nantwhich. Any direction or help is greatly appreciated, if I can provide any more information please let me know! I would love to find Caroline's parents and hopefully grandparents eventually :)
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On her marriage, Caroline's father is given as John Key (Kay)
Possibly the Key family in 1841
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7MY-WG1
The father is a Sawyer and the children are working as silk throwers.
In the 1871 census, Caroline gives her place of birth as Nantwich.
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Death Registration
KEY, JOHN 60
GRO Reference: 1849 M Quarter in CONGLETON Volume 19 Page 73
In 1851 census (Congleton Cheshire) - Caroline Key and her sister Jemina are with their mother Elizabeth who has re-married to a William LOMAS. Caroline's place of birth is Nantwich.
In 1861 census (Congleton Cheshire) - Caroline and her 2 children are also living with Elizabeth Lomas.
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There is also this baptism
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQTM-WHC
In 1861 she is shown as Bayley b Sprose Green
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Death registration for Elizabeth Keys who married William Lomas on 13 Feb 1851 Biddulph
LOMAS, ELIZABETH 82
GRO Reference: 1863 M Quarter in CONGLETON Volume 08A Page 214
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Thankyou so far everyone!! I've taken a look at all of the clues, and I noticed on the the 1861 census that Caroline and her sister Jemima are listed as Elizabeth Lomas' grandchildren, however, Elizabeth Lomas is the same age that Caroline's mother should be. Do you think that it was human error in the census that Caroline and Jemima were recorded as grandchildren?
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There is also this baptism
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQTM-WHC
Carole, I have been looking at that Key family, and I think it may be a different family. Both John and Mary are in Sandbach in every census and are still living in Sandbach in 1871 census.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBJ9-V1Q
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Thankyou so far everyone!! I've taken a look at all of the clues, and I noticed on the the 1861 census that Caroline and her sister Jemima are listed as Elizabeth Lomas' grandchildren, however, Elizabeth Lomas is the same age that Caroline's mother should be. Do you think that it was human error in the census that Caroline and Jemima were recorded as grandchildren?
Yes, I think it is an error. Caroline and Jemima should be "step-daughters" to the head of household.
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In 1861 she is shown as Bayley b Sprose Green
Can anyone tell me where Sprose Green is, please?
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Trying to pin down the children of John and Elizabeth Key
Sarah baptised 9 Dec 1821 in Wrenbury to John and Elizabeth; died 1844 Astbury (age 22)
Thomas born abt 1823 no baptism found; died 1842 Astbury (age 19)
George baptised 23 July 1827 in Astbury to John and Elizabeth. Death? before the 1841 census?
Emma born 1828 no baptism found; died 1849 Astbury (age 21)
Caroline born abt 1832 no baptism found
Jemima born abt 1835 no baptism found
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In 1861 she is shown as Bayley b Sprose Green
Can anyone tell me where Sprose Green is, please?
I believe that it is supposed to be Sproston Green, a community west of Middlewich, or at least in the general area of Sandbach
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There is also this baptism
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQTM-WHC
After more searching, it is possible that this is the correct baptism, to a single mother named Mary Key, and the baby was taken in by a relative to look after.
I think it would be worth exploring that possibility.
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As a note to the above, there is Mary Ann Key born 1811 to John and Elizabeth Key, who died age 24, on 1st April 1835 in Congleton. Did she die in child birth?.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3GT-VX8
If she is the mother to Caroline and Jemima, then those 2 girls may well be the grandchildren of Elizabeth Key.
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Thanks Neale1961! My tree matched with a relative, they claim that John Key's wife was named Elizabeth Simpson, but there are no records cited. Perhaps if you're correct, and Jemima and Caroline are the grandchildren, maybe John Key had a sister named Mary Key? My bad, just editing this now after I read the names wrong for Mary Ann's parents - I think it is very plausible that Elizabeth was the grandmother through Mary Ann, not a relative or sibling of John, my bad
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Bapt for Mary Key
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1DZ-P4F
I am now thinking that Mary Key, mother of Caroline, is the daughter of John and Elizabeth.
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If this is the case, then John Key and Elizabeth would have gotten married before or around 1812? And I assume Caroline's father was not present at the baptism? How unfortunate if that's what happened
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If this is the case, then John Key and Elizabeth would have gotten married before or around 1812?
A year earlier, maybe.
Another child, Elizabeth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4GD-YVC
And a son John
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4GD-1L9
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From his age at death, John Key was born 1789; and the 1841 census gives both his and Elizabeths age at about 50; so they would have been marrying age about 1810 - 1811.
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Thankyou Neale 1961! I've found another child - Richard Kay baptized 1814 in Wrenbury. I found one possible marriage, John Kay and Elizabeth Layland, married 1810 in the city of Chester, but this seems kind of far away, do you think this could be it?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBFR-B27
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I did see that marriage before, but I dont think it is right for your couple.
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I have found a transcript of the 1851 marriage of Elizabeth Key (widow) to William Lomas. Her father is named as Richard Simpson. Unfortunately I cannot see the original document, to see other details - a bit annoying. Somebody else may be able to view the original.
But that at least gives her birth / maiden name as Elizabeth Simpson.
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A possible baptism for Elizabeth Simpson-Keys-Lomas.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F75C-LV8
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Thankyou Neale1961!! I've been adding all this to my tree, I didn't think I would ever get this far back on this line haha. I'm getting no results for a Elizabeth Simpson and John Key marriage 1809 +/- 10 years on any of the databases I use. Do you think this is the end of their line? Aside from the possible baptism for Elizabeth Simpson/Kay/Lomas
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I do like that baptism for Elizabeth Simpson. Assuming it is the correct one, then we can look at the baptisms for her siblings (all in Wrenbury):
William 1766
William 1767
Ann 1769
Martha 1771
Richard 1774
Richard 1778
Charles 1782
Elizabeth 1787
This gives the likely marriage of the parents Richard SIMPSON and Margarett BESKIN (both of Wrenbury parish) on 30 Dec 1766.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NHKR-B4V
So guessing Richard and Margaret might be born approx. 1735-1745 lets look at possible births and burials.
There is a burial in Wrenbury 21 Feb 1819 for a Richard Simpson (of Sandford Bridge) aged 82, giving his birth year of abt. 1737.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N4J8-4MC
It is probably correct for your man, but did not lead me to a likely baptism.
I did not come up with anything else for Margaret Beskin. BESKIN / BASKIN is an unusual name so it might be worth looking outside of Cheshire in nearby counties.
Regarding John Key we only know from the 1841 census that he was from Cheshire but where exactly? There are quite a few possible baptisms in the right time frame some more possible than others due to place, or names of parents. There are a couple there that are interesting what do you think?
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A bit more family detail
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Baptism for Jemima
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6SH3-55W
Marriage for Jemima
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3GN-5WZ
Jemima had a son before her marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F32N-LGQ
And another son after marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3V2-YHX
Census 1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBFP-PHL
Census 1881
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q272-JY98
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Wow, you're absolutely super!! Thankyou so much, especially for the bits on Jemima. Here are some baptisms I found for possible Richard Simpson:
Richard Simpson - Wybunbury, Cheshire 1729 - Close proximity to Wrenbury, but rather early
Richard Simpson - Rostherne, Cheshire 1737
Richard Simpson - Bowdon, Cheshire 1737
Richard (indexed as Simson) - Whitegate, Cheshire 1730
Richard Simpson - Mucklestone, Staffordshire 1748
Richard Sympson - Whitchurch, Shropshire 1738 !!!!!!!! Close to Wrenbury
Richard Symson - Newport, Shropshire 1741
As for Margaret Baskin, I have found nothing relating to her. At first I thought it may have been because Baskin could perhaps be her previous husbands name (if she had a previous husband), but I couldn't find results for that either.
And as for John Key, I've found a few baptisms as well that are all contenders based on location and year (I'm not able to see the possible parents' names, but I assume the father would have a name similar to one of John's sons):
John Key - Audlem, Cheshire 1790 - Very close to Wrenbury/Newhall
John Key - Middlewich, Cheshire 1786
John Kay - Malpas, Cheshire 1788 - Also close to Wrenbury
John Key - Bunbury, Cheshire 1794
John Key - Nantwich, Cheshire 1794
Thankyou so much again for putting in the time and effort, it means a lot to me :)
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Hi, I just added parents names to the possible baptisms and have made bold the names which I can see were given to children. I am unfamiliar with that part of the country to advise about places - that's where local knowledge is useful!
Richard Sympson - Whitchurch, Shropshire 1738 !!!!!!!! Close to Wrenbury (Parents: William & Rebecca)
Richard Simpson - Wybunbury, Cheshire 1729 - Close proximity to Wrenbury, but rather early
(Mother: Frances- possibly illegitimate)
Richard Simpson - Rostherne, Cheshire 1737 (Parents: Edmund & Mary)
Richard Simpson - Bowdon, Cheshire 1737 (Parents: Edward & Mary)
Richard (indexed as Simson) - Whitegate, Cheshire 1730 (Parents: John & Mary)
Richard Simpson - Mucklestone, Staffordshire 1748 (Parents: John & Anne)
Richard Symson - Newport, Shropshire 1741 (Parents: Thomas & Elizabeth)
John Key - Nantwich, Cheshire Feb 1794 (Parents: John & Mary)
John Key - Audlem, Cheshire 1790 - Very close to Wrenbury/Newhall (Parents: Joseph & Elizabeth)
John Key - Middlewich, Cheshire 1786 (Mother: Ellen - possibly illegitimate)
John Kay - Malpas, Cheshire 1788 - Also close to Wrenbury (Parents: Charles & Elizabeth)
John Key - Bunbury, Cheshire 1794 (Father: Thomas)
John Key Knutsford, Cheshire 1787 (Parents: Thomas & Martha)
John Key Knutsford, Cheshire 1787 (Parents: James & Sarah)
John Key - Nantwich, Cheshire 1793 (Parents Edward & Ann)
John Key Weaverham, Cheshire Sept1786 (Parents: Richard and Mary)
John Key Weaverham, Cheshire Oct1786 (Parents: Samuel and Ann)
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Hi Neale1961, how wonderful! Thankyou for all of your help on this brickwall, I really appreciate all of your effort. As for the Richard Sympson baptism, I think the Whitchurch one is most likely, although that is in Shropshire. And I am at a loss for John Key, so I may end the line here after getting input from my aunt who also does genealogy. Either way, I'll take a break from this branch and move to another while I chat with my aunt. Thankyou so much again! :) :)
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http://cprdb.csc.liv.ac.uk/
This is a useful resource.
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Thankyou so much!!