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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: patrexjax on Tuesday 18 May 21 00:33 BST (UK)
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Hello all! This post MAY relate back to my earlier post of yet another Spoor/Wealleans marriage. This one has some confusing (to me!) issues. Firstly, one on line source (IGI) indicates that George Spoors was b 15 May 1811 in Whittingham to James Spoors and Isabella Vass. The "problem" is his spouse, Elizabeth Willans who is described in one source (My Heritage) as being born 1812 in Framlington; another source (Ancestry) shows her born 1816 and died 1851. Ancestry also shows George Spoors being born in North Shields! Since I can't seem to find an appropriate George in any census, I am wondering if, perhaps, there may, in fact, be two different George Spoors. That forename, however, is fairly uncommon in those Spoor men I have found. Can any keen-eyed Rootschatter please make sense of these two different sources? Thank you kindly, Sincerely, patrexjax
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Pretty sure there are 2 different George SPOORS.
In 1851 you can see George (41, Born Whittingham, husbandman) at Longbenton with wife Elizabeth (38, Framlington) and daughter Mary (13, Warkworth)
HO 107/2411 pg 1
Also in 1851 at Little Lumley, Durham is another George SPOORS (widow, 41, coal miner, born Northumberland) with son Matthew.
HO 107/ 2394 pg14
They are also in Harraton, Durham in 1861 (George, 52, coal miner with I presume new wife Mary,48 and Matthew, 13)
RG 9/3762 pg22
In 1881 this George (70, coal miner) says born North Shields
RG 11/4982 pg13
Modified to add:
Didn't look on the next page of George and Elizabeth at Longbenton, so didn't see more children:
Elizabeth (10, Wallsend), Ellen (7, Earsdon), Jane (5, Earsdon) and James (2, Longbenton).
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Also in 1841, George (30, ag lab), Elizabeth (25) are with Ann (6), Mary (4) and Elizabeth (6 months) at Earsdon.
HO 107/820/15 pg3.
Elizabeth SPOORS birth registration Tynemouth (25/430) Dec qtr 1840 has mother's maiden name WEALANDS.
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another source (Ancestry) shows her born 1816 and died 1851.
The only Elizabeth SPOORS death I can see in 1851 was registered at Newcastle upon Tyne (25/254), aged 1.
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7 George Spours/Spoors born c 1800-1811 Northumberland
1805 has parents as James/Elizabeth nee Vass
1807 has parents as Matthew/Mary nee Wilson, 2nd son" " N. Of So. Shields" *"Mary N. Of Edinburgh"
1811 has parents James/Isaba nee Vass
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Hello maddys52 and trish1120! THANK YOU so very much for this "gold mine" of information! Clearly, I will be sorting through this information most of today! It appears that the surname Vass figures into the equation with a James Spoor marrying, possibly two different Vass women...(maybe sisters?) At any rate, pure speculation on my part as I have just awakened to see these fantastic responses! Many thanks to you both for your help. Most sincerely, patrexjax
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7 George Spours/Spoors born c 1800-1811 Northumberland
1805 has parents as James/Elizabeth nee Vass
1807 has parents as Matthew/Mary nee Wilson, 2nd son" " N. Of So. Shields" *"Mary N. Of Edinburgh"
1811 has parents James/Isaba nee Vass
Haven't seen the images, but FreeReg has further detail too:
For the 1811 Whittingham baptism it notes James and Isabella lived at Great Ryle. "1st son, Father: Native of Fenrother, Mother: Native of this parish" and father's occupation - Hind.
The 1805 Whittingham baptism has James and Elizabeth lived at Eslington. "1st son, Father: Native of Hebburn, Mother: Native of this Parish" and father's occupation - labourer.
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Hello again maddys52! I have to leave shortly to tend to a medical appointment, BUT, I have looked at yuor message and am wondering about that 1805 entry: my knowledgeof Northumberland georgraphy is pretty skimpy AND I was further confused by Google and Genuki: fromwhat I cold see, it looks like there are TWO Hebburns..... ??? one in Northumberland and one in Co. Durham East of Gateshead. Am I totally wrong in assuming (ahem!) that the entry would refer to the Northumberland Hebburn..... I hesitate to make any assumptions in family history!! Your comments would be appreciated on this matter. AND, when I return from my errand, I will delve into your responses! thanks so much for your continued interest! Most sincerely, patrexjax
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After studying a map carefully, I am concluding the Hebburn we are focused on would be in Northumberland..... Fingers crossed! patrexjax
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I could be totally wrong too, not really knowing the area, but I think there is only one Hebburn. It is in the County of Northumberland, but the Diocese of Durham (according to Wikipedia). :-\
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https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/dc-newcastle-gateshead/assets/images/business-directory/tyneandwearmetromap.png?mtime=20200415111106&focal=none
Just to add a bit more on Hebburn for patrexjax from what you have found on Wikipedia, Maddy. This place I know is not too far from South Shields and Jarrow and is part of the South Shields registration district. At one time the South Shields area was part of Durham but boundaries changed and it is now part of Tyne and Wear. It still falls under the South Shields registration district.
I have added a link showing a metro train line where Hebburn lies in relation to South Shields and Jarrow. It only takes about 15 minutes on the metro to get from Hebburn to South Shields.
I might add that it would be commonplace for ancestors to move from one side of the river to the other. I know some of my ancestors moved back and forth in this way between census and for marriages, etc.
http://www.durhamrecordoffice.org.uk
I can't get to the exact link to show but if you go to 'Hidden Depths' on this site you will see quite a few mining 'Spoors' for which documentation is still held at the Durham Archives. Might be worth a browse to see if any of your coal mining ancestors might be listed. (My Great Grandfather has two letters relating to sickness - I was able to view these at the archives a long time ago.)
There were lots of coal mines on both sides of the river.
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I could be totally wrong too, not really knowing the area, but I think there is only one Hebburn. It is in the County of Northumberland, but the Diocese of Durham (according to Wikipedia). :-\
There were two places called Hebburn. At the relevant time both would have been in the Diocese of Durham.
One was in County Durham on the south bank of the River Tyne and part of the ancient parish of Jarrow (i.e. the one referred to by RTL).
The other in Northumberland also known as Hebron, lying just to the north of Morpeth. https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/Hebburn This would have been in the Diocese of Durham until 1882, when the Diocese of Newcastle was created.
For the 1811 Whittingham baptism it notes James and Isabella lived at Great Ryle. "1st son, Father: Native of Fenrother, Mother: Native of this parish" and father's occupation - Hind.
The 1805 Whittingham baptism has James and Elizabeth lived at Eslington. "1st son, Father: Native of Hebburn, Mother: Native of this Parish" and father's occupation - labourer.
If it helps, Fenrother was in the Northumberland Hebburn.
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Thanks River Tyne Lass and Jen, always good to learn something new from those who know. :D
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These two links from Genuki should be a first port of call for place-names and parishes - well worth bookmarking
Northumberland place-names, linked to the appropriate parish and Registration District -
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/Gazetteer
County Durham parishes
http://www.joinermarriageindex.co.uk/pjoiner/genuki/DUR/fullindex.html
There is also an excellent place-name index for County Durham here, complete with links to location maps
http://www.durhamrecordoffice.org.uk/article/11114/Place-Names-Search-Results?SearchType=PlaceAtoZ&SearchStart=A
From this you can see, for instance, that the Hebburn in County Durham didn't become a parish in its own right until 1874.
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Hello JenB, RTL and maddys52! Thank you all so very much for this most helpful information! Small wonder that I was getting confused. As always, I really appreciate your help on this and all questions! Most sincerely, patrexjax