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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Pete Hatt on Friday 21 May 21 15:48 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone. I wondered if anyone out there has ever come across a mother and baby home at St Faiths, 2 Myddelton Square Finsbury, Middlesex. We know from the records that this home was run by The Holborn Deanery and was also listed as Magdalen Home.
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Hi & welcome to Rootschat!
Have you seen this site?
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/list/MH5.shtml
Magdalen Homes - London E/EC Postal Districts
Holborn Deanery St Faith' home, 2 Myddleton Square, Holborn EC1
Founded: by 1935
Closed/Moved: c 1960
Classes received, weekly fees etc: Mothers and babies; also expectant mothers; Those outside the Deanery, 10s
Places: 9m/4b
Admission age: Under 30
Cheers
AMBLY
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This mentions St Faith's circa 1937
St Faiths, 2 Myddleton Square, controlled by by the Holborn Deanery Association
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qmp/
This mentions St Faith's circa 1928
There are no institutions (in Holborn) for unmarried mothers, illegitimate children, homeless children in the Borough but St Faiths Home, Myddleton Square receives such mothers from the Holborn area.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qmp/
And found this:
"St. Faith's Home ( 1919 ) , 2 Myddelton Square , Clerkenwell , E.C. Object . — Rescue and preventive work , especially in Holborn Deanery . Admission . - Application to Lady Superintendent . Payment expected where possible "
So this appears to indicate that St Faith's existed prior to being formally enveloped by the Holborn Deanery Association?
I found a google book dated 1900 which appeared to list various institions, charities, associations and so on, and St Faith's/2 Myddleton Square not found in it - but there was a St Faith Home at 259 Vauxhall Bridge Road (and that was also listed in a 1891 book)
Have you a time period you are trying to match to? Is it "St Faith's" that is your point of reference, or is it the Myddleton Square or Holborn or Magdalen Homes?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thank you Ambly. The date that my Father was resident there was October 1937. We are trying to find out as to whether any list of children or mothers that passed through still exist. His adoption was handled by the National Adoption Society. Sadly all documentation has now been destroyed along with his adoption file and all court records. We are trying to find more information about his birth mother. We have also gone down the DNA route and all to no avail.All we are looking for is the date of birth of his birth mother and that would narrow our search down.
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Welcome to Rootschat Pete :D
Would I be right in thinking that the Agnes Foley you mention was an unmarried mother?
There is an Agnes Foley living at 24 Downside Crescent Hampstead, Hampstead, London & Middlesex as a servant in the 1911 census.
I had a look to see how many Foley/Foley births appeared between 1911 and 1921 and there are five, four in St. George East and one in Kensington.
I may of course be totally off beam and if so my apologies.
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There is this birth which may well be the Agnes in the 1911 census that I mentioned.
FOLEY, AGNES GREER
GRO Reference: 1890 S Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 640
Seems to be the only one that fits the birth year and with the single name of Agnes.
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We were always told by my Nan that his birth mother was 19 at the time of my Fathers birth. Now there is only one that would fit that year and she came over from Ireland in 1937 and trained as a nurse as this has been confirmed by family we have managed to trace. We assumed that this must be his birth mother. We also then found out that she had given a second child up for adoption in South Africa. Her son she gave up for adoption managed to trace her in 1990. He sadly passed away last year, but he had a DNA test done on my heritage prior to his death last year. My father has taken a test and it showed no match. So that has sadly ruled her out. It now also throws into doubt the age of my Fathers mother as we can find no further Agnes's born of that year in either England or Ireland and it also then throws into the mix, it could be anyone. Thats why we are so desperate to find out how old she was when she gave birth to my Father. She appeared on the Electoral register of 1938 in Harrow, this is the same address she put down on my fathers real birth records, of which we do have a copy. We are also led to believe that to be on the Electoral Register, you had to be 21. So once again it throughs into doubt that it was the one from Ireland anyway.
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There is a single Agnes Foley in Harrow area in 1939 born 1905. She married in 1946.
Marriages Jun qtr 1946
Bradshaw James
Foley Agnes
Stepney 1c 331
You may already have discounted her as I realise she does not match the age 19 but family information is often proved false.
ADDED Possible birth registration
Birth Mar qtr 1905
Foley Agnes Mothers maiden surname PIGGFORD
Chester le S. 10a 578
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Thank you for your reply. On the listing for the unmarried mothers home it did say unmarried mothers up to the age of 30. Now that her of of 19 is proving to be incorrect we are extending age from 19 up to the 30. So it making the task a little bit more difficult.
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Does the birth certificate give an occupation for Agnes.
Is she living with the Smith's in 1938
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She was indeed living with the Smiths and it giver her occupation at a domestic servant. We have been in contact with the only remaining relative who's mother was living there at the time. Sadly she hasn't been able to help us out with any information regarding Agnes. Strangle though my Father was given the same middle name of one of the sons who lived there at the time. We thought he may have been the father and we have been sent a picture of him and he is so contrasting to my Father and bears no resemblance whatsoever. The DNA test my Father had done through my heritage suggests 42% Irish, so given her name being Irish we are pretty certain she either came over from Ireland to give birth to my Father or was from a local Irish family.
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Just posting in case it is later relevant - date of birth matches 1939 information
Death
Agnes Bradshaw
Birth 23 Jan 1905
Death Oct 1976 Southwark, Greater London
There appears to be a child born to that couple shortly after they married. She would have been in her early 40's when she gave birth
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Hi Rosie, I think we can safely rule her out as on my Fathers adoption order it states she was an unmarried mother. There was also an age limit on the unmarried mothers home in Finsbury of 30. What were are trying to do is to both find her age and what happened to her after she left Harrow in 1938.
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I would not rule her out that easily
She would only have been a couple of years over the homes age limit when she gave birth, I doubt she would have had to provide evidence of her age so could have 'stretched the truth'.
She was showing as single in 1939 so would have been unmarried when she gave birth c1937.
She had a child after 1939
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Hi,
I agree with Rosie. Agnes Foley adjusting her age from say, 32 to 29 in 1937 in order to avail herself of the help she needed, would most definitely be within the realms of possibility.
There were twin sons at that address, 16 Newquay, is that right - GD and CA - born 1913? And is the woman in the household with the very Irish Catholic name Mary Teresa, their mother?
Just for reference I'm wondering what investigation have you done into them? There could well be a familial connection between them and Agnes Foley. For example, what are the details of them in the 1939 Register. We can't post the information here ourselves (Rootschat copyright rules) but you can, if you have it, provide some detail.
Sometimes a lateral approach can uncover important clues... ;D
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Rosie and Ambly,
My apologies as I miss read what you originally said, thought you meant she was in her early 40s when she gave birth. Yes I see what you mean now. Since we had the results back from my heritage and it ruling out any link to what we thought was his half brother and the Agnes Foley we believed to be his mother. It does question the age of 19 or rather rules it out, as he was always told that was her age. What it does do now is open up a rather larger age range. Well on my Fathers original records it says that she was a domestic servant at 16 Newquay Gardens Harrow. The head of the house at that time was indeed Mary Teresa Smith and her two twin sons Geoffrey Denis Smith and Clifford Aubrey Smith, there was also a daughter of around 14 and she was at a boarding school only a few miles up the road. The Smiths moved out in the September of 1939, Agnes didn't go with them. The Smiths first rented the house in 1934 and the first time Agnes Foley appeared on the electoral roll was October 1938. This could mean she was there prior to 1938 and hadn't come of age as she would have had to be 21 in those days to be eligible to vote or it could mean she genuinely came in 1937. It throws for us two theory's. One, she was placed there by the Church of England as they found pregnant catholic girls homes to live in prior to giving birth and jobs, these usually being a domestic servant, they stayed with the families until 6 weeks before the birth and then moved into the unmarried mothers home, namely the one I mentioned, as it does also give her address as 2 Myddelton Square as residence of the informant on my Fathers birth certificate. Theory number two, being that she did know the family and she stayed with them until she had the baby and then returned to Harrow for a further 12 months and moved on. We did also wonder if one of the twins was indeed the Father of my Father, as strangely my Father was given the middle name Denis the same spelling as Geoffrey Denis. We have now managed to trace Geoffrey's niece down and she has kindly sent us a picture of Geoffrey and he bears no resemblance to my Father, not to say he isn't the Father as that means nothing. Im a spit of my Father as is my Grandson of me, which does suggest the y chromosome runs strong through our male side of the family. The fortunate thing is the niece we are now talking to has had a DNA test on ancestry, I have too and currently waiting for the results. From my Fathers results we have now managed to rule out two Agnes Foleys we have traced some close relatives who have also had DNA tests. Unfortunately the niece couldn't say if her grandmother knew Agnes prior to her living there. The only thing she did say was that the family were living in Spain and returned to the Uk in the early 1930s. The mother did also go under another name Habbijam. Just for the record on my Fathers DNA test it showed him as being 42% Celtic, namely Irish, Scots or Welsh and with a name like Foley are assumption his birth mother was Irish. If you both could help in anyway, we as a family would be so grateful. Hope this additional information helps and please feel free to ask me in any further questions. We have gone down many avenues trying to find some information. It so sad that all his adoption records have been destroyed and no court records exist either, only the court entry books, which sadly only showed his mothers name. A date of birth would crack this search, unfortunately the paper trail seems to be missing. The last thing I will share with you is that on the letter from The Adoptions Society to my Nan was that he had been baptised on 1/1/1938 at a church in North Harrow. Alas we have been able to trace this either.
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The Agnes that I have mentioned who is in Harrow bn c1905 single with occupation that is similar to the Agnes you are looking for was in her early 40's when she had a child after her marriage in the 1940's, so it is possible that she gave birth to your father age approx 32 as a single woman. She was not resident prior to 1939 at the address she is at in 1939.
I am not sure that it would necessarily help to get her marriage certificate other than to ascertain the name and occupation of her father though it could just say deceased. Maybe it
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There's an Agnes Foley at 86 Marlborough Hill, Harrow, on the 1939 electoral register. Not listed the previous year. Is with Jessie Louisa McMeekin (I think nee Jones, widow of Malcolm)
I can't find the address - or Jessie - in the 1939 Register.
Agnes born 1905 at 198 High Street, Harrow (1939 Register, free index). I haven't been able to find that address in the electoral registers for 1938, 1939! Seems to have changed polling districts, and ancestry have chopped Harrow up into little bits. Has it been found by anyone? Rosie?
There are also several Agnes Foleys born in Scotland in the 1910's. See ScotlandsPeople.
A few items for the period pertaining to St Faith's Home among the records of Holy Redeemer church, Exmouth Market, held at the LMA.
Nothing very promising, a couple of reports, 25 Oct 1937 - 25 Jan 1938
https://search.lma.gov.uk/LMA_DOC/P76_RED.PDF
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There's an Agnes Foley at 86 Marlborough Hill, Harrow, on the 1939 electoral register. Not listed the previous year. Is with Jessie Louisa McMeekin (I think nee Jones, widow of Malcolm)
I can't find the address - or Jessie - in the 1939 Register.
It is Empty there were quite a few in that 'street'. Still looking for Jessie
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Well done, Rosie, vacant, nearer the end of the book.
So the Agnes there on the electoral register could be the Agnes in the High Street in the National Register! Jessie might be anywhere.
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We did find that Agnes Foley at Marlborough Hill and I thoughts were perhaps she went there after leaving Newquay Crescent. But with the onset of war it's been difficult to find out where she might have gone after that. So yes it could well be her in the High Street. But theres nothing concrete to suggest that.
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Agnes born 1905 at 198 High Street, Harrow (1939 Register, free index). I haven't been able to find that address in the electoral registers for 1938, 1939! Seems to have changed polling districts, and ancestry have chopped Harrow up into little bits. Has it been found by anyone? Rosie?
In 1938 High Street goes up to no 188 then it changes to Locket Road. (Harrow South West)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qmt/
The Winfields who were at 196 have moved elsewhere by 1939 ER
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In 1938 High Street goes up to no 188 then it changes to Locket Road. (Harrow South West)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qmt/
You convinced me it must be there somewhere, Rosie!
1939, 198 High Street is in polling district MH, in Harrow South West
A lot of the names haven't been indexed on ancestry. Looking for Kathleen Daw in Harrow will find the relevant image.
Albert William Wallis and Winifred Helen Wallis at 198. No Agnes.
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Agnes is there in the 1939 at 198. No. 5 in the household after the two closed records.
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She's there in the National Register.
It is possible that the three sightings in 1938/9 of Agnes Foley in Harrow are all of the same person. I don't know whether they are, just saying it's possible.
John
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I think that I would be buying that marriage certificate in the hope there was a clue
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Agnes born 1905 at 198 High Street, Harrow (1939 Register, free index). I haven't been able to find that address in the electoral registers for 1938, 1939! Seems to have changed polling districts, and ancestry have chopped Harrow up into little bits. Has it been found by anyone? Rosie?
In 1938 High Street goes up to no 188 then it changes to Locket Road. (Harrow South West)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qmt/
The Winfields who were at 196 have moved elsewhere by 1939 ER
I helped with this query when it was first on the Harrow Facebook page.
I was born and grew up just off Locket Road Wealdstone!
Carol
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I helped with this query when it was first on the Harrow Facebook page.
Where were you Carol when we needed you ;D
There's a baptism of Agnes Foley in 1905 indexed on Durham Records Online.
Parents Hugh and Catherine. Abode Newfield, Chester-le-Street.
Presume that means she was C of E.
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That family are on the 1911 census living at 10 William Street Newfield N/C, Chester Le Street, Durham.
Parents Hugh and Catherine with five daughters, one of whom is Agnes, and one son.
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Death Sep qtr 1914
Foley, Catherine age 40
Chester-le-S. 10a 643
There is no evidence that Agnes stays in the Durham area :-\
ADDED I looked at online trees for this Agnes yesterday but no one seems to have followed her after 1911
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There is a single Agnes Foley in Harrow area in 1939 born 1905. She married in 1946.
Marriages Jun qtr 1946
Bradshaw James
Foley Agnes
Stepney 1c 331
You may already have discounted her as I realise she does not match the age 19 but family information is often proved false.
ADDED Possible birth registration
Birth Mar qtr 1905
Foley Agnes Mothers maiden surname PIGGFORD
Chester le S. 10a 578
Getting this birth certificate might help to eliminate her
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Death Sep qtr 1914
Foley, Catherine age 40
Chester-le-S. 10a 643
Buried at Pelton Cemetery. Nutfield address.
Performed by John Wm Faraday. There was a Wesleyan minister of that name, don't know if it's him.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3V4-P2R4
Grave register not much help
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3V4-PKGR
Burial register says buried 5th June, the month is certainly an error.
Grave register says interred 4th July.
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The last thing I will share with you is that on the letter from The Adoptions Society to my Nan was that he had been baptised on 1/1/1938 at a church in North Harrow. Alas we have been able to trace this either.
The nearest church to Newquay Cres is in Malvern Ave.
https://www.standrewsroxbourne.org.uk/
They have a contact us page.
If it was a Catholic baptism,the nearest is St John Fisher.
https://parish.rcdow.org.uk/harrownorth/contact/
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Pete, I noticed you haven't been online for a while,did you find any of our help of any use?
For my part I thought you might be able to check with the two North Harrow/Rayners Lane churches to see if either was where the baptism took place and if they held anymore info?
Carol