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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: mckha489 on Tuesday 25 May 21 06:22 BST (UK)

Title: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 25 May 21 06:22 BST (UK)
British History online ( https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol5/pp495-502) says of St Mary's Church, Saxlingham Nethergate

"Gleane impales three garbs 2 and 1"

Gleane is the surname, but can anyone describe the rest of what I assume is a coat of arms to me?

Thank you.

Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 25 May 21 08:00 BST (UK)
A Garbe is a wheat-sheaf.
"2 and 1" describes the wheat-sheaves in a row of 2 and a row of 1.
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 25 May 21 08:10 BST (UK)
Impaling: the meaning and object of the impaling or setting side by side two coats of arms or more in the same shield.
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 25 May 21 08:23 BST (UK)
Found a picture of "3 garbes 2 and 1".

Cumming clan of Scotland; but probably other sources, too.
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 25 May 21 08:36 BST (UK)
Thank you KG. Now my brain is hurting!

I will have to consider that information.


Added, so if his father had a different coat of arms (ermine and 3 lions rampant) might this man be (for example) the wheat sheaf thing on one side and the ermine and lions on the other? 
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: Kiltpin on Tuesday 25 May 21 10:03 BST (UK)

"Gleane impales three garbs 2 and 1"

This is a marital arms. The husband (Gleane) is on the left as we see it and his wife (three garbs 2 and 1) is on the right. The original writer has omitted to tell us the blazon of Gleane's arms and expects us to know. There are some arms that are so well known that no blazon is required - England, Scotland, Wales for example. Gleane is not one of them. Luckily, The General Armoury has him listed - 

Ermine on a chief Sable three lions rampant Argent

The Gleane line and arms became extinct in 1745 when no further sons had been produced. The task now is to find out who Gleane married. Her father bore the "three garbs 2 and 1". Once she is known then the colours of her arms will be known and the task is complete. 

Regards 

Chas


Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 25 May 21 10:22 BST (UK)
You make it sound so easy  ;D ;D

 Leonard Gleane married someone named Anne. Trees have it that it was Anne Puckell but I haven’t found the evidence.

Leonard was baptised 6 Dec 1587 , son of Sir Peter Glean (1564-1633).  And Maud or Matilda Suckling (1566-1631)

I think he was a haberdasher  (apprenticeship record)
by his burial he was “Gent”

One daughter was baptised 1636, and I think she was the youngest so the marriage must be a few years at least before that

Added ..I would expect the marriage to be in either Norfolk or Suffolk
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: Kiltpin on Tuesday 25 May 21 10:55 BST (UK)
You make it sound so easy  ;D ;D

 Leonard Gleane married someone named Anne. Trees have it that it was Anne Puckell but I haven’t found the evidence.

Leonard was baptised 6 Dec 1587 , son of Sir Peter Glean (1564-1633).  And Maud or Matilda Suckling (1566-1631)

I think he was a haberdasher  (apprenticeship record)
by his burial he was “Gent”

One daughter was baptised 1636, and I think she was the youngest so the marriage must be a few years at least before that

Added ..I would expect the marriage to be in either Norfolk or Suffolk
I never said it was easy! An there will be many side-quests and rabbit holes to go down. 

The General Armoury has nothing for Puckell. For Puckle (Sussex) there is - 

"Gules three dexter hands couped Argent the fingers towards the nombril point." 

There are 2 Sucklings - 

Wootton, Norfolk - "Per pale Gules and Azure three bucks trippand Or." It does not say, but I would think that the bucks were in pale. 

London - "Sable a fess nebulee Argent guttee de sang between three elephant's heads Or." 

That does not help a lot, but this might give a clue - 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleane_baronets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleane_baronets) 

Regards 

Chas
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 25 May 21 10:59 BST (UK)
That Wiki entry refers to the grandson of Sir  Peter who died 1633.
A nephew of Leonard whose burial I am looking at here.
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: Raybistre on Wednesday 26 May 21 20:04 BST (UK)
Papworth has "Or three garbs sa. two and one. BIRRBY or BUCKBY" No location given.
p.896 "An Ordinary of British Armorials, London 1874.
Ray
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 26 May 21 20:36 BST (UK)
Now, that is a name I think I may have seen.
Back to browsing!

Thank you.
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: SiGr on Thursday 27 May 21 11:41 BST (UK)
Hi, I am going to attach extracts from pages 107 to 111 inclusive from Vol 4 of the Society of Antiquaries of London's 'Dictionary of British Arms Medieval Ordinary', 2014. Apologies for doing it in several posts but even reducing the document size, I am constrained by the size limits. There are a couple more pages covering patterned field 3 plain garbs, 3 garbs crowned, 3 garbs and label, etc. Let me know if you want them - possibly by DM.
I hope these may be of some use. Regards. Simon.
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: SiGr on Thursday 27 May 21 11:42 BST (UK)
And here are pages 109,110 and 111.
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 27 May 21 12:31 BST (UK)
Simon,

Thank you so much.
It’s nearly mid-night here, so I will give this the attention it deserves tomorrow.



Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 27 May 21 21:11 BST (UK)
Good morning.
I have discovered that those books are available free online as open source.   ;D ;D

Thank you for alerting me to their existence.

https://heraldica.hypotheses.org/6332
Title: Re: 1654 - impales three garbs 2 and 1.
Post by: SiGr on Friday 28 May 21 13:31 BST (UK)
Thank you for mentioning that. I originally downloaded them from the Society of Antiquaries of London's website some time ago but when I checked yesterday the download was no longer to be found. Maybe they are still there but I had no success. Good to know they can still be had open source given they are quite expensive.