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Title: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: BronwenS on Monday 31 May 21 07:27 BST (UK)
Kia ora

I want to understand these various entries.  My very early Chatfields are from Ditchling.

Any help appreciated.

Nga mihi
Bronwen
Aotearoa where we have massive flooding in and around Canterbury.
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: horselydown86 on Tuesday 01 June 21 05:50 BST (UK)
I have done my best with three entries to give you a sense of what they say:

Houndene:

Robert Chatfilde holds 1 parcel of wooded land containing
by estimation 20 acres or more called Deneland in Newicke
lately Ersfildes and at one time Michells by rent 13 August 21 Elizabeth/
14 June 28 Elizabeth/38 Elizabeth             2 shillings
(presumably the rent)

Nutbourne:

Nicholas Chatfilde 27 July: 13 January holds for himself and his heirs 1 tenement and
one virgate of land called Crowell containing 29 acres lately Barnards 16 September
9 January and 22 September 4 Elizabeth: by rent            8 shillings


Ditchling (first entry):

Robert Chatfilde 35 Elizabeth holds one virgate of land parcel of those
lands called Bedells lately Haselgroves by rent 29 Henry 8/10 Henry 8 
           4 shillings 1 pence 1 halfpence


Where land is said to be lately [name] the name is most likely to be the former holder.  So my interpretation for the Houndene entry is that Robert Chatfield's landholding was previously held by Ersfilde and before that by Michell.

I'm not sure what the dates signify.  They could be dates on which payments of rent were made; or dates of grants/mentions in the (presumed) Court Rolls; or something else.

CORRECTION:

Initially omitted from transcript.
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: BronwenS on Tuesday 01 June 21 06:01 BST (UK)
Many many thanks.  I really had no idea.  I must look at iook at one again to see if I can make any sense of them now.

Nga mihi
Bronwen
Aotearoa
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: horselydown86 on Tuesday 01 June 21 06:11 BST (UK)
Bronwen, I have made a small correction to the Nutbourne entry.
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: BronwenS on Tuesday 01 June 21 06:23 BST (UK)
Many thanks.

With this one:
Robert Chatfilde 35 Elizabeth holds one virgate

Does this mean Robert Chatfilde ageed 35 and Elizabeth, I must say I have never heard of a virgate and have looked that up.

nga mihi
Bronwen
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 01 June 21 07:17 BST (UK)
This is intriging and I am really looking for information pruely from interest. 

What years are you talking about with this record?

Given the numbers followed by Elizabeth and once by Henry, could the entries refer to the years of Elizabeth1 reign or of Henry's reign?  I have seen something similar in other wills.
e.g.
 6th year of Elizabeth's reign.  (She did reign long enough to have all those various numbers as years of her reign.)
8-10th years of Henry's reign.

No sure - just asking.

Wiggy
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: horselydown86 on Tuesday 01 June 21 07:24 BST (UK)
With this one:
Robert Chatfilde 35 Elizabeth holds one virgate

Does this mean Robert Chatfilde ageed 35 and Elizabeth, I must say I have never heard of a virgate and have looked that up.

No, it means that in the 35th year of Queen Elizabeth Robert held the land described.

All these dates are in the form of regnal years.  So 35 Elizabeth (the thirty-fifth year of the reign of Elizabeth I) was partly in 1592 and partly in 1593.

The regnal year depends on the date of the monarch's accession to the throne.  Unless we have the day part of a regnal date, we can't say exactly which calendar year is meant.

I use this calculator when decoding regnal years:

http://aulis.org/Calendar/Regnal_Years.html
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: BronwenS on Tuesday 01 June 21 07:32 BST (UK)
Thanks I get that now.  Thanks for the website too.
I think Wiggy your questions have also been answered. 

nga mihi
Bronwen
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 01 June 21 08:11 BST (UK)
 Hooray - I remembered correctly.    :)
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: BronwenS on Tuesday 15 June 21 23:24 BST (UK)
Kia ora

I have two of these that I absolutely want transcribed.  I am attaching them, of course I have had a go with the information Horsleydown sent but to little avail.

Nga mihi (best wishes)
Bronwen Summers
Aotearoa
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: horselydown86 on Wednesday 16 June 21 06:04 BST (UK)
Roughly translated we have...

1569:

John Chatfilde holds a third part of the aforesaid virgate called Lofilde

containing by estimation 40 acres by rent just as during 34 Henry 8 11 April 1 Elizabeth / 15 Henry 7

Free holder under the parish of Westmeston



Note:

I'm not sure I have ...just as during... correct.

I took the contractions to be:  ...p(ro)ut p(er)q(ue)...

With luck someone will correct me if necessary.


1597:

The same Nicholas holds 1 granary and half a virgate of land containing 50 acres

called Chatfelds by rent 9 Henry 8 / 39 Elizabeth / 15 Henry 7
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: BronwenS on Wednesday 16 June 21 06:47 BST (UK)
Great, many thanks for doing those two for me.
Nga mihi
Bronwen in Aotearoa the and of the long white cloud!
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: Bookbox on Wednesday 16 June 21 13:07 BST (UK)
I took the contractions to be:  ...p(ro)ut p(er)q(ue)...

Not that it makes any material difference, but I believe it's ...p(ro)ut p(atet) ..., meaning 'just as appears' (at the given dates, referring back to other entries).
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: horselydown86 on Wednesday 16 June 21 14:40 BST (UK)
Not that it makes any material difference, but I believe it's ...p(ro)ut p(atet) ...

Thanks for clarifying.  I see now that prout patet is part of standard legal terminology (such as prout patet per recordum).
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: Bookbox on Wednesday 16 June 21 14:48 BST (UK)
Not that it makes any material difference, but I believe it's ...p(ro)ut p(atet) ...

Thanks for clarifying.  I see now that prout patet is part of standard legal terminology (such as prout patet per recordum).

Yes, exactly. Extracted from Adriano Cappelli, ed., Dizionario di abbreviature latine ed italiane (6th edn, Milan, 1987).

(Sorry, image bigger than expected!)
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: horselydown86 on Wednesday 16 June 21 14:56 BST (UK)
An excellent resource, thank you.
Title: Re: Chatfield listed in The book of John Rowe
Post by: BronwenS on Wednesday 16 June 21 21:05 BST (UK)
Many thanks to you both for clarifying that.

Nga mihi
Bronwen
Aotearoa