RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: johneowens on Monday 31 May 21 20:27 BST (UK)
-
Could some kind person please decipher the township of one of my distant relatives from the Northup Parish Registers?
The entries are on p. 136 of the christenings for 1798, 9th and 10th lines down:
"Lobrook major?? Anne D of John Jones & Mary his wife [born 19 Feb], bapt 21 Feb"
"Flint Corn Mill?? Robert S of John Jones & Mary his wife [born 23 Feb] bapt 25 Feb".
Anne and Robert appear to be children of the same parents, but the interval between the birth dates suggests they are not. I think Robert is one of my 3rd gt grandfathers.
I'm not familiar with this area of north Wales. Can anyone decipher the townships for me, please? "Flint Corn Mill (sic) also appears further down the same page, as dows "Lobrook major??".
Yet again, a small jpeg file of the page does not load on Rootschat.
In anticipation, many thanks and best wishes
John
-
I think the first one is Ldbrook Major - short for Leadbrook Major
-
I can't see teh second one as yet - maybe someone else might see it:
Add - is it Flint <something>
Add2 - I'm sure it''s Flint Corn with a superscript m - m
-
Maybe?
https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/408498/
-
Flint Comn = Flint Common
-
Leadbrook Major is quite a large area - see
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102342360#zoom=5&lat=5496&lon=1242&layers=BT
-
Many thanks, everyone. Leadbrook Major looks right for Ann. However, I cannot find a place near Northup called Flint Common. There is however Corn Mill, as Gadget suggests - which reflects the former existence of a corn mill. I'll go with Flint Corn Mill.
Best
John
-
Flint Comn = Flint Common
I cannot find a place near Northup called Flint Common. There is however Corn Mill, as Gadget suggests - which reflects the former existence of a corn mill. I'll go with Flint Corn Mill.
Comn is quite frequently found as an abbreviation for Common. I rather doubt that something as specific as Corn Mill would be abbreviated in this way.
If you browse the Northop parish register rather more widely, you’ll find that Flint Common is referenced time after time as a place of residence. Below is an example written out in full (from 1807 burials, line 1, Mary Jones).
Finding it on a map is another matter, of course.
-
Hi Bookbox
On further reflection, I see the other Flint Common mentions. I guess it is/was an area of the county town of Flint. Previously,I went for Flint Corn mill as I found that on Google and no mention of Flint Common but I'm now persuaded Flint Common is much more likely.
Many thanks again
Best
John
-
Northop and Flint are adjacent parishes. I'm wondering if it is the area that might be a 'fluid' boundary. Flint mountain is in that area. It might be worth looking around there.
Coming from just south of there, I can't recall flint Common ever being mentioned - though I was (nearly) a couple of centuries later ;D
-
PS - I was referring to Flint as a parish/town rather than the county in my last posting.
I see that there is a large stretch of land to the south of Holywell that is marked as Holywell common. Maybe earlier maps would show Flint Common.
-
I have ancestors from this area and have found a great variety of places referred to as Flint ..... There are Flint Mountain, Flint Wood, Flint Common etc. It can be difficult to find where some of these are now. I did a field trip a few years ago and was none the wiser. Genuki has a page on Flint which has a link to an old map.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/Flint
Jo
-
Thanks, Jo. I'll check out this url.
Best
John
-
That's where I've been looking, Jo.I mentioned Flint Mountain in a previous post - #9
I think it might be worth contacting Clwyd FHS:
http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/resource-centre.htm
I'm not sure what the arrangements are for the Research Centre in Cefn at the moment but a letter might get through.
-
Have you tried Welshnewspapers on line? eg
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3853630/3852638/65/
see end column
plenty of hit for "flint common".
-
One newspaper report describes it as " ... a mountainous district between Flint and Northop ...".
-
PS - I was referring to Flint as a parish/town rather than the county in my last posting.
I see that there is a large stretch of land to the south of Holywell that is marked as Holywell common. Maybe earlier maps would show Flint Common.
Thanks, Gadget. I'll check it out. However, if Flint Common is part of Flint, which has its own parish church I wonder why my baptisms listed above are registered at Northop, presumably, the Parish Church of St. Eurgain and St. Peter at Northop. Could be because the Flint church "had been profaned and severely vandalised in the Civil War", according to http://www.fflint.co.uk/church.html
Best
John
-
That's Flint Mountain, Ht ;D
Just found a will of Jeremiah Thomley of Flint Common
https://viewer.library.wales/153380#?c=&m=&s=&cv=&manifest=https%3A%2F%2Fdamsssl.llgc.org.uk%2Fiiif%2F2.0%2F153380%2Fmanifest.json&xywh=1188%2C994%2C713%2C747
PS - Flint Mountain might be on the map links previously given
-
One newspaper report describes it as " ... a mountainous district between Flint and Northop ...".
Many thanks, hanes teulu.
Could you please send me the citation and the clipping?
Best
John
-
Have you tried Welshnewspapers on line? eg
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3853630/3852638/65/
see end column
plenty of hit for "flint common".
Wonderful, hanes teulu. Thanks again
John
-
Think its Flint Corn[ist], a district quite near to Flint town. Google "Cornist, Flintshire"
Ray
-
https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/420470/
Flint Common
-
That's Flint Mountain, Ht ;D
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3797115/3797119/23/
-
Thanks for the reference, hanes teulu.
Best
John
-
Croeso.
-
There was (and is) an area near Flint town called Cornist. I found this about Cornist Hall, one mile south west of Flint.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornist_Hall
There is an area of Flint called Cornist to this day:
https://www.cornistparkcp.co.uk/
More photos here:
https://www.google.com/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=flint+cornist&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1_dTThPnwAhWI66QKHVKaAK8Q7Al6BAgWEAs&biw=1280&bih=881
This is just over 3 miles from Northop, St Eurgain, according to Google maps.
It is possible that your ancestors had a family connection to Northop which is why they were baptised there. My gt gt gt grandfather was born Flint Mountain but his family came from Northop originally. I think they were close to Northop from there. It gives the distance as 1.3 miles today.
Jo
-
Old Maps https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/322935/372420/12/100184
In 1901 George William Mould, 65, is at Cornist Hall
Civil Parish Coleshill Fawr, Ecclesiastical Parish St Mary's Bagillt
-
... Returning to the original entry for Robert Jones, the second word certainly looks like Corn viz. "r" and "n" rather than "m", but then the "h" or "n" superscript becomes a problem as it should be "t", and does not look like a "t". I also might have expected 2 "ms" in the shortened form of "Common". Conversely, the clerk could have written Common phonetically as "Com with an "n" superscript. Although what is supposedly an "n" looks like an "h", other "h's" on the same page have a loop, and these "h's" do not not. Further, whoever wrote the next page (131) had a better hand, as can be seen Anne D of David Jones: Flint Com with an "n" superscript.
So, thanks to everyone, but I'll plump for Flint Common. As bookbox mentioned earlier, Flint Common is referenced extensively in these registers.
Best
John
-
Dear Experts
I have another request.
This is another Northop Parish register (presumably St. Eurgain and St. Peter, Northop) entry for Anne D of John Jones and Mary his wife born April 10 1800, which is the entry at the bottom of the page on Ancestry @ https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/62104/images/004372612_00144?pId=534908 The township looks to me something like Caerfallwch, which if I'm correct is about 5 mls from Flint & 2.5 mls from Northop ie. walkable, and now called Rhosesmor.
Is Caerfallwch a correct reading, pls? And what about the baptism date? Is it 12 April 1800?
The proximity to Flint (and hopefully Flint Common) is significant for my search as I'm trying to identify the parents, John Jones & Mary? - presuming that at that time they would not have strayed far from Northop. [Several family trees on Ancestry have Anne's father from Montgomeryshire, some distance from Flint, and so I have dismissed these. So, can anyone please identify a baptism for John, presumably, about 1797 (I think their first child was Robert, my ggg father, baptised at Northop 25 Feb 1798, born @ Flint Common) and a marriage to Mary, presumably about 1797.
Once again, I will appreciate any help.
Many thanks and best wishes
John
Apologies: again, the screenshot will not post
-
Caerfallwch would work - see https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/bcd67d42-840d-42e1-8216-f72c4b4fe861
-
Thanks, Mabel.
John