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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: mckha489 on Friday 04 June 21 07:48 BST (UK)

Title: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 04 June 21 07:48 BST (UK)
Looking for a baptism of Phil(l)id(d)a Du CROZ  about 1781 in London.   

Her father John Du CROZ   married Susanna Sabrey 1773 and there is a baptism of a son John 1779
There should then be an Ann born about 1780
And Phillida in 1781

Susanna was buried 7 May 1783

But the year before on 9 Oct 1782 Sarah MORTON was baptised, d of John du CROZ and Ann MORTON.

Then John du CROZ  and Ann MORTON married 2nd June  1783

A few other children followed whose baptisms can be found.

It is my suspicion that both Ann and Phillida are Ann’s children not Susanna’s but I cannot find a baptism for either

I do not need any information about Philidda’s marriage and children. It is just her baptism I seek,

I should add, it is possible they are non-conformist.
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 04 June 21 08:04 BST (UK)
There is at least one tree that thinks the 1782 baptism of Sarah is actually Phillida, but at Phillida’s marriage to Richard Morgan there is a Sarah Du Croz who is a witness.

Although..I cannot find any mention of Sarah subsequently.
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: amondg on Saturday 03 July 21 09:37 BST (UK)
I tried with no luck either, ancestry, findmypast and The Genealogist.

The wills of Samuel Du Croz 1835 and Ann Du Croz (formerly Clayton)1823 are on the Genealogist, but not on ancestry (PCC Wills)

The family is on Burks Peerage several times perhaps that might give some clues. 
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 03 July 21 09:58 BST (UK)
Thank you very much for looking amondg.

Ann (nee Clayton) is the wife of Alexander who is Phillida's uncle, and Samuel is her cousin.
Thank you for letting me know their wills are on The Genealogist. Will see if I can find a short term sub or a willing friend  :)

Burkes entries, as far as I can tell from the bits I can see, relate to the descendants of Phillida's brother John.
This family seem to have such a lot of information available it is even more frustrating than usual that I cannot find her baptism.
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: sugarbakers on Saturday 03 July 21 10:06 BST (UK)
An aside, if I may ...

I have these two entries on my Sugar Refiners database, are they the same family ? ....

DUCROZ  (sugarhouse & house) Ducroz & Shey   Denmark St  London   1806-13   Land Tax Records
DUCROZ   Ducroz & Shey    Denmark St   London    1815   London PO Dir
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: Bookbox on Saturday 03 July 21 10:10 BST (UK)
The wills of Samuel Du Croz 1835 and Ann Du Croz (formerly Clayton)1823 are on the Genealogist, but not on ancestry (PCC Wills)

They are on Ancestry. Look under Du Broz.
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 03 July 21 10:29 BST (UK)
I cannot say for sure Sugarbakers, but I would not be at all surprised.

John du CROZ 1789 - 1873  was a Glassware, Porcelain etc  merchant.  Premises at 7 Skinner Street. He was very successful and built a manor house at East Hanningfield and is recorded as a farmer there in 1851.
 
I don't see why he might not have also had a finger in other pies.
 

Bookbox, thank you so much for finding those wills. Off to check for any hints

 
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: Bookbox on Saturday 03 July 21 10:36 BST (UK)
Almost all PCC wills are on Ancestry, though a few pages were missed during the filming.

For earlier wills in particular, many names are mistranscribed, partly because of the engrossed script used for the marginal headings.

If there’s difficulty, it may help to search first on TNA Discovery (use Advanced Search, entering the reference as PROB 11) to find the date of probate, then search Ancestry by date of probate rather than by name.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/advanced-search
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: sugarbakers on Saturday 03 July 21 12:18 BST (UK)
The Denmark St sugarhouse appears to have been under the title of Ducroz & Shey 1806-1815 [this was John Shey], then James & John Shey 1816-1820, but a further search has not yet given a forename for 'Ducroz'. Though an Alexander Du Croz died 1818, which may have been him.

I thought I had found the connection ... Samuel's will (thank you Bookbox) was witnessed by a Conrad Rohde a neighbour in Holborn. The Rohde name was important in sugar refining late 18C, but the 1822 directory shows this Conrad was a grocer, so nothing directly back to sugar.

I noticed that both the wills of Ann and Samuel mention a Phyllis Du Croz ??
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 03 July 21 22:18 BST (UK)
It was Alexander!  Thank you so much for making me look 😀

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/16718/page/708


He was also in partnership before 1799 with a George Duffield. Coal Merchants and Corn Dealers.
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: amondg on Saturday 03 July 21 22:26 BST (UK)
Sugarbakers
Notes from trying to find baptisms for Mckha489.

The Alexander Du Croz who died 1818 was the son of Alexander Snr. and his wife Ann nee Clayton.

Alexander the elder (circa 1735-1789) in 1774 was listed as a dealer of Brooks Street Holborn.
His will is not useful, everything to wife Ann, then divided equally between his children. A witness was Mary Clayton, no doubt a relative of his wife.
1805 apprentice record Ann Du Croz  a feather manufacturer app Anna M T Howell.

1816 Directory lists A Du Croz feather manufacturer of Brooke Street. 1819 Alex Du Croz feather warehouse Brook Street. So did Ann run the business after her husband died and keep it in his name and did son Alexander (1772-1819) take it over.

John Du Croz senior was a Taylor ref: apprenticeship records 1782,1787,1793,1800.

His son John who married Mary Ann Cotterill 1813 is the one who became the Glass Manufacturer.
and it is his sister Ann who married William Milledge 1814 who was a Glass Dealer.
1816 John Du Croz of Skinner Street Glass and Crystal man
1817 John becomes a Freeman of London and is listed as an Earthenware Dealer.
From memory I think I saw it advertised as Du Croz and Millidge Glass Dealers at one point.

The Samuel Du Croz (1787-1835) was a son of Alexander and Ann, Phillis and Elizabeth are his sisters. What he did for a living is a mystery at the moment.
The Ann (Clayton) Du Croz who died 1823 was his mother.

Alexander senior and John senior are sons of James Du Croz and his wife Philiis, ref his will of 1773, names a sister Margaret, brother Henry who lives in the Hague, wife Phillis and sons Alexander and John.

ADDED
Congrats Mckha489 you solved it.
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 03 July 21 22:39 BST (UK)
Yes. Agree with all of that, thank you Amondg.    Except- see reply #13

Samuel I am fairly confident was a Surgeon.  He was certainly apprenticed to one (Joseph Dymond) in 1802 (citizen and Bowyer, but the index dues says Surgeon) and the person who swore his handwriting was his at probate was also a Surgeon.

Added..and in the will Joseph Dymond is bequeathed a mourning ring.

(I’ve been wondering what people did with all the mourning rings!)
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 03 July 21 22:51 BST (UK)
Re John the Chinaware man

He was obviously very successful.

Whites directory of Essex 1848

Claydons is a small subordinate manor in East Hanningfield, and in which J. Du Croz. Esq. has erected a handsome mansion called Great Claydons

Which I Think is here https://www.flickr.com/photos/boxster986/31690765818
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 03 July 21 23:10 BST (UK)
I have the 1805 apprenticeship to John (the Tailor) and Ann. And Ann is a school mistress


Ann Howell was a witness at the marriage of John and Ann’s daughter Martha in 1807.
Title: Re: Phillida Du Croz baptism London about 1781
Post by: sugarbakers on Sunday 04 July 21 10:39 BST (UK)
It was Alexander! 

mckha489 ... thank you, that's a great find. Earlier than expected. Have added to the database.

... but it's still not found Phillida !!

amondg ... thank you for the extra notes