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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: aithne on Saturday 05 June 21 12:33 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I’ve been searching for an ancestor of mine for a while though to be honest it was always in the too hard basket.
I’m not asking people here to look things up for me as i basically have nothing much to go on.
Due to the fact indigenous people in Australia didn’t have official records everything i know has been passed on through word of mouth.
I was always told i had African heritage, something i always believed but of course had no proof. The family tree that got passed around from about 40 years ago had three men listed in different branches saying “American whaler” or “American sealer”. Some (though not directly linked to me say “American Indian” or “Mexican Indian”).
One particular ancestor for me said “American Negro or “West African”.
My sisters and I have searched with the name we were given and haven’t come up with anyone who this man could be, until i found an American whaler with a similar name (probably pronounced the same but different spelling) being in the right area at the right time. We can’t seem to find anything on that man to rule him out. We’ve searched crew lists from New Bedford and New London etc and although there’s similar names none of them are the two names we’ve been told or that i found on the whaler’s index.
My dna matches connected with several people in the US, and one of them replied to my message saying it does look like we’re related 5 - 6 generations back which fits for this ancestor. They haven’t replied to my last message so i guess i won’t be getting help from that angle.
Since would have been born around 1820, and on a ship in 1840s with his daughter born in Western Australia about 1850, and because of slavery i’m guessing there probably weren’t records for him anyway, or for his parents.
I don’t know where else to look for information. If anyone can suggest where else to search that would be great but i’m wondering if, in your experienced opinions, yous think i should just let this one go. I guess i would like to know what his name was, and where he originated from in the US. maybe i should just be content with the dna test showing the word of mouth stories were true.
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Which DNA test did you do ? Did it show what percentage of African heritage you have and can you compare with ethnicity of your matches ?
What was the surname of your ancestor you believe to have African heritage ? Can you do a surname search among matches ?
Have you downloaded your results to gedmatch ?
There's always hope .!
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Personally I would be researching the industry you think he was in and finding out what records there are and what information they contain below are a couple of US websites however I am unsure if you are looking for Austrialian or US records
https://www.archives.gov/research/african-americans/slave-ship-manifests.html
https://www.whalingmuseum.org/sites/default/files/pdf/KWM%20Monograph%20Series%20No%206_African%20Americans.pdf
and Trove is always worth a look for Austrialian information https://trove.nla.gov.au/
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Which DNA test did you do ? Did it show what percentage of African heritage you have and can you compare with ethnicity of your matches ?
What was the surname of your ancestor you believe to have African heritage ? Can you do a surname search among matches ?
Have you downloaded your results to gedmatch ?
There's always hope .!
I did the tests with MyHeritage and also Ancestry. There’s a lady who contacted me while ago wanting to wrote about one of my ancestors and she works with DNA helping people find their biological families, she also looked at my results on gedmatch. So i’m confident it is there (at 5%) and the other descendant agrees we’re related but looking their family tree it doesn’t go far because their family is mostly all one name people being slaves. It was the same for all of those family trees so i couldn’t work out anything from that. And yes, i compared the ethnicity of my matches through gedmatch. The woman who responded had 60% African heritage and so i’m confident the match was that way and not through an English connection of which she had very little.
Anyway, the ancestor was listed with a single name on the family tree i inherited - Mullane or Mullaney is all it says. The biographical index of whalers for the area he was has a whaler named Molaney and since many people at the time couldn’t read and write too well i’ve always kept an open mind on spellings of names.
Edit: i should add that another relative posted a scan of the same family tree document i had, with some things written in pen and above Mullane/y is says “nan called him Lou”. So i’ve also played with various spellings of Lou/louis/lewis.
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Personally I would be researching the industry you think he was in and finding out what records there are and what information they contain below are a couple of US websites however I am unsure if you are looking for Austrialian or US records
https://www.archives.gov/research/african-americans/slave-ship-manifests.html
https://www.whalingmuseum.org/sites/default/files/pdf/KWM%20Monograph%20Series%20No%206_African%20Americans.pdf
and Trove is always worth a look for Austrialian information https://trove.nla.gov.au/
Thanks. I’ve searched Trove and whaling Museum site, plus a few others. There’s a few similar names but nothing i can say is him without big doubts.
What would be helpful is if that information existed in Australia. Whaling ships are listed here but not crew lists. There’s one document, a Biographical index of whalers but it’s basically just a name and location.
I don’t think slave ship registers will tell me much since i don’t know if the name i have is accurate, or whether he was born in Africa or US. I’m assuming he was in the US since my DNA matches are there.
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Ethnicity results are generally to be taken with a pinch of salt, however in this case they may be helpful. I imagine there would be also a large sample population for African American heritage, so the accuracy may be better.
You say you have matches with people in the USA. I think most of us do due to more Americans taking tests that other populations. It does not follow that we all have African heritage as I’m sure you know.
What percentage African heritage do Ancestry and My Heritage say you have? Is it 5%? Do both sites agrees with that estimate?
Family stories can often have some truth to them, though not always, and they can miss a generation or relate to the other side of the family than the one you expect, so it is worth looking at both branches. :)
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Ethnicity results are generally to be taken with a pinch of salt, however in this case they may be helpful. I imagine there would be also a large sample population for African American heritage, so the accuracy may be better.
You say you have matches with people in the USA. I think most of us do due to more Americans taking tests that other populations. It does not follow that we all have African heritage as I’m sure you know.
What percentage African heritage do Ancestry and My Heritage say you have? Is it 5%? Do both sites agrees with that estimate?
Family stories can often have some truth to them, though not always, and they can miss a generation or relate to the other side of the family than the one you expect, so it is worth looking at both branches. :)
Point is, we know that it’s there and that the family story was true. And also because the Chief Protector of Aborigines (the man who was determined to breed the black out of us aka committing genocide) was pretty annoyed a century ago when he realised my family had African heritage because the black can still come out in a later generation and all their work would be undone. So it’s not a question as to whether African is there, and the matches i’m talking about all have Nigerian and/or Sierra Leone as the ethnic match. Also, their profile pictures show them to be black. So i don’t really see a point in questioning whether that’s accurate. It’s getting off track now and that’s not what i was here asking for.
I’m wanting to know if it’s worth trying to pursue this ancestor with so many obstacles or if i should give up.
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The National Archives holds a significant number of records about Aboriginal people including individuals https://www.naa.gov.au/explore-collection/first-australians
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Anyway, the ancestor was listed with a single name on the family tree i inherited - Mullane or Mullaney is all it says. The biographical index of whalers for the area he was has a whaler named Molaney and since many people at the time couldn’t read and write too well i’ve always kept an open mind on spellings of names.
What 'biographical index'? what 'area'? Can you post a link to this?
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The National Archives holds a significant number of records about Aboriginal people including individuals https://www.naa.gov.au/explore-collection/first-australians
Yes, but that’s Aboriginal people, in Australia. And we already have the Native welfare files. And my family was lucky anyway because one convict ancestor made a lit of money from mining so his Aboriginal children weren’t stolen and therefore we know so much more about my family than those who were stolen.
I’m not looking for information on my Aboriginal family though. I’m looking for the African ancestor
I will also point out that those files aren’t formal documents. It’s most word of mouth information, things police reported etc that were then written into files. They can’t be taken as fact. They often have fathers listed for children who weren’t even there at the time.
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Anyway, the ancestor was listed with a single name on the family tree i inherited - Mullane or Mullaney is all it says. The biographical index of whalers for the area he was has a whaler named Molaney and since many people at the time couldn’t read and write too well i’ve always kept an open mind on spellings of names.
What 'biographical index'? what 'area'? Can you post a link to this?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281277010_A_Biographical_Index_of_Western_Australian_Whalers_1836-1880
A copy if this same document is in the state library of Western Australia because i looked at it physically
Edit: i think people are getting confused in the point of my thread.
I’m not asking for help to find this person. I’m asking if i should continue the search or give up.
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I understood what you are asking but it was unclear if this index was for Australia or New England.
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I understood what you are asking but it was unclear if this index was for Australia or New England.
It’s for Australia, where his daughter was born.
We don’t even know that the ancestor was in New England.
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This is what made me wonder if it was a New England resource-
My sisters and I have searched with the name we were given and haven’t come up with anyone who this man could be, until i found an American whaler with a similar name (probably pronounced the same but different spelling) being in the right area at the right time. We can’t seem to find anything on that man to rule him out. We’ve searched crew lists from New Bedford and New London etc and although there’s similar names none of them are the two names we’ve been told or that i found on the whaler’s index.
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Ethnicity results are generally to be taken with a pinch of salt, however in this case they may be helpful. I imagine there would be also a large sample population for African American heritage, so the accuracy may be better.
You say you have matches with people in the USA. I think most of us do due to more Americans taking tests that other populations. It does not follow that we all have African heritage as I’m sure you know.
What percentage African heritage do Ancestry and My Heritage say you have? Is it 5%? Do both sites agrees with that estimate?
Family stories can often have some truth to them, though not always, and they can miss a generation or relate to the other side of the family than the one you expect, so it is worth looking at both branches. :)
Point is, we know that it’s there and that the family story was true. And also because the Chief Protector of Aborigines (the man who was determined to breed the black out of us aka committing genocide) was pretty annoyed a century ago when he realised my family had African heritage because the black can still come out in a later generation and all their work would be undone. So it’s not a question as to whether African is there, and the matches i’m talking about all have Nigerian and/or Sierra Leone as the ethnic match. Also, their profile pictures show them to be black. So i don’t really see a point in questioning whether that’s accurate. It’s getting off track now and that’s not what i was here asking for.
I’m wanting to know if it’s worth trying to pursue this ancestor with so many obstacles or if i should give up.
The percentages may give some indication of how many generations back you need to go to find this ancestor.
Sorry you thought I was “getting off track”.
Good luck with your search.
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"Since would have been born around 1820, and on a ship in 1840s with his daughter born in Western Australia about 1850, and because of slavery i’m guessing there probably weren’t records for him"
Records are poor for everyone during this time period because, before 1850, the censuses only listed heads of households by name and the sea-faring lifestyle meant that some sailors were not counted at all. Slavery is obviously an additional complication to tracing this man's origins. Presumably his parents or grandparents were slaves but he himself was a free man. There were free Black people and they did get censused. Some of them were mariners - as I recall, the cook on the Brig Pilgrim in 1834 [Richard Henry Dana, Two Years Before the Mast] was Black and had a family in Boston.
You could start by the tedious process of trawling through the 1850 census of the whaling towns of New England looking for appropriately named Black families engaged in the maritime trades. You can search the 1850 census by race.
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Some possible sources of information:
https://www.whalingmuseum.org/sites/default/files/pdf/KWM%20Monograph%20Series%20No%206_African%20Americans.pdf
https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2017/01/13/black-whaling-captains-found-liberty-sea
https://www.newsday.com/long-island/long-island-spotlights-people-of-color-in-whaling-history-1.11416710
https://www.skipfinley.com/whaling-captains-of-coloramericas-first-meritocracy
https://www.jstor.org/stable/44215363?seq=1
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I saw your post this morning and coincidentaly while i was searching for Scottish relatives a slave of same name as one of my ancestors came up on a list of British Colonial transport .
Out of interest i looked at the list and saw that the first column titled original name had short names like Bob Tom
Next column was baptized names
Another column had phrases like" son of Sal ".or" mother of Tom ."
I remembered what you said about "known as Lou" so maybe the person who wrote your tree had seen a record like this
Im really sorry i didnt save to my shoebox as now i cant remember document title or year i know Jamaica was mentioned.
As others have said there will be a lot of trawling to do but hopefully you will get more clues along the way .
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I’m asking if i should continue the search or give up.
I say continue the search. From what I understand you have a black American man named Mullaney and I think you are saying he was in the New England area. and you have a possible given name of Lou.
He sounds like he can be found, or at least a probable match. I've seen a lot more hopeless cases.
The spelling of the surname doesn't matter. Spelling of surnames wasn't standardized until long after the 1850's, Irish names are notorious for being spelled any way the person who was writing them down felt like at the time.
You will have to find the man on the American records before you even have a hope of finding where he was from in Africa. Mullaney was probably not his African name - unless it sounds like an African surname and the spelling was Americanized - I'm just thinking out loud here. Otherwise, ask yourself why he chose that name. Was it the slave owner's? Someone his family knew in the area? etc. Are there Mullaney families in the area? White or black? or both?
I don't know exactly when slavery was abolished in the various New England states, but you should find out. I'm pretty sure it was in that time period of the early 1800s. If he was born in 1820, he might have been born a free man to parents who had been freed. If you do trace him back to the slave owner, then you need to research that family's records as if they were your own. Some Southern US slave owner's accounts books and business records have been archived, but I don't know about New England owners.
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Due to the fact indigenous people in Australia didn’t have official records everything i know has been passed on through word of mouth.
I was always told i had African heritage, something i always believed but of course had no proof.
oral tradition has been very reliable in most cases I've seen. and now, of course, you have the DNA match to prove it.
My dna matches connected with several people in the US, and one of them replied to my message saying it does look like we’re related 5 - 6 generations back which fits for this ancestor. They haven’t replied to my last message so i guess i won’t be getting help from that angle.
If their trees are online you can get help from them, even if they don't respond. - if the trees are well researched. Where were they from? New England? What part? did they work as whalers? ship owners, etc? any other likely tie-ins to your ancestor?
You mentioned gedmatch, I think. They ask you to include your earliest known ancestor. Some are far enough back to be useful. Can you locate the earliest known ancestors of the people you match with?
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Your first post mentioned your ancestor's daughter being born in 1850, so I assume you are descended from this man through this daughter. But if you are descended through a son, and have an unbroken male line back to him, have you done a y-DNA test? If your family doesn't have a male line, are there any Australian families who do? Or is he only known to have one child born in Australia?
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Slavery was abolished in:
Vermont 1777
Pennsylvania 1780
Massachusetts and New Hampshire 1783
Connecticut and Rhode Island 1784
New York 1799
New Jersey 1804
Massachusetts , Rhode Island and Connecticut will be the states of greatest interest to you. Also possibly Maine [which was part of Massachusetts until 1820], New Hampshire [Portsmouth] and New York [Long Island].
List of US whaling ports to keep in mind:
https://research.mysticseaport.org/info/ib69-1/
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If you are looking for a black seaman of that era don't rule out Nova Scotia.
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Due to the fact indigenous people in Australia didn’t have official records everything i know has been passed on through word of mouth.
I was always told i had African heritage, something i always believed but of course had no proof.
oral tradition has been very reliable in most cases I've seen. and now, of course, you have the DNA match to prove it.
My dna matches connected with several people in the US, and one of them replied to my message saying it does look like we’re related 5 - 6 generations back which fits for this ancestor. They haven’t replied to my last message so i guess i won’t be getting help from that angle.
If their trees are online you can get help from them, even if they don't respond. - if the trees are well researched. Where were they from? New England? What part? did they work as whalers? ship owners, etc? any other likely tie-ins to your ancestor?
You mentioned gedmatch, I think. They ask you to include your earliest known ancestor. Some are far enough back to be useful. Can you locate the earliest known ancestors of the people you match with?
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Your first post mentioned your ancestor's daughter being born in 1850, so I assume you are descended from this man through this daughter. But if you are descended through a son, and have an unbroken male line back to him, have you done a y-DNA test? If your family doesn't have a male line, are there any Australian families who do? Or is he only known to have one child born in Australia?
As far as we know, he only had the 1 child here. So no male line. Although someone in New Zealand had the African dna match so i’m wondering if maybe he had a child there as well. A different woman in every port. I will probably contact that person but i wanted to check stronger matches first.
His daughter was born about 1850 but there’s no actual record for her birth, and she might have been born closer to 1860 making her much younger when her first child was born which wouldn’t have been uncommon for her to be closer to 13 than 20 for the first one.
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This is what made me wonder if it was a New England resource-
My sisters and I have searched with the name we were given and haven’t come up with anyone who this man could be, until i found an American whaler with a similar name (probably pronounced the same but different spelling) being in the right area at the right time. We can’t seem to find anything on that man to rule him out. We’ve searched crew lists from New Bedford and New London etc and although there’s similar names none of them are the two names we’ve been told or that i found on the whaler’s index.
Yeah, but i only checked those lists because they were online, and because i knew whaling ships sailed from there, and most of the US whaling ships in Western Australia sailed from New Bedford.
So it’s not wrong to assume he was from New England, he probably was, but we also have no proof that he was from there.
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I’m asking if i should continue the search or give up.
I say continue the search. From what I understand you have a black American man named Mullaney and I think you are saying he was in the New England area. and you have a possible given name of Lou.
He sounds like he can be found, or at least a probable match. I've seen a lot more hopeless cases.
The spelling of the surname doesn't matter. Spelling of surnames wasn't standardized until long after the 1850's, Irish names are notorious for being spelled any way the person who was writing them down felt like at the time.
You will have to find the man on the American records before you even have a hope of finding where he was from in Africa. Mullaney was probably not his African name - unless it sounds like an African surname and the spelling was Americanized - I'm just thinking out loud here. Otherwise, ask yourself why he chose that name. Was it the slave owner's? Someone his family knew in the area? etc. Are there Mullaney families in the area? White or black? or both?
I don't know exactly when slavery was abolished in the various New England states, but you should find out. I'm pretty sure it was in that time period of the early 1800s. If he was born in 1820, he might have been born a free man to parents who had been freed. If you do trace him back to the slave owner, then you need to research that family's records as if they were your own. Some Southern US slave owner's accounts books and business records have been archived, but I don't know about New England owners.
This is the hard hard bit. Keeping an open mind as to his name having spelling changes, and it might have been an African name that someone wrote down wrong. This is where i’m struggling - too many variables. I suggested to my sister we should look for a slave owner with that name.
The government has records on some of my ancestors that we can’t access, but since the Chief protector of Aborigines was aware of her having African heritage i’m now wondering if the government has that information that we just can’t access.
I’ve been aware that black people were free in New England a lot earlier than other places. So i started to look through the Book of Negroes to see if a family member went to Canada and back to Africa but that was too traumatic to read so i didn’t get very far.
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Could your seafaring ancestor have been the son of a black woman and Irish man by the name of Mullaney?
I presume you have exhaunted all avenues in Australian records in case his place of origin was mentioned on any documents? You would need to check dates of availability in the State the events occurred, but things like obits, death records or d/c, his marriage, even his own children’s birth and death records may name parent’s place of birth (at least they do later on).
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Hello,
I’ve been searching for an ancestor of mine for a while though to be honest it was always in the too hard basket.
I’m not asking people here to look things up for me as i basically have nothing much to go on.
Due to the fact indigenous people in Australia didn’t have official records everything i know has been passed on through word of mouth.
I was always told i had African heritage, something i always believed but of course had no proof. The family tree that got passed around from about 40 years ago had three men listed in different branches saying “American whaler” or “American sealer”. Some (though not directly linked to me say “American Indian” or “Mexican Indian”).
One particular ancestor for me said “American Negro or “West African”.
My sisters and I have searched with the name we were given and haven’t come up with anyone who this man could be, until i found an American whaler with a similar name (probably pronounced the same but different spelling) being in the right area at the right time. We can’t seem to find anything on that man to rule him out. We’ve searched crew lists from New Bedford and New London etc and although there’s similar names none of them are the two names we’ve been told or that i found on the whaler’s index.
My dna matches connected with several people in the US, and one of them replied to my message saying it does look like we’re related 5 - 6 generations back which fits for this ancestor. They haven’t replied to my last message so i guess i won’t be getting help from that angle.
Since would have been born around 1820, and on a ship in 1840s with his daughter born in Western Australia about 1850, and because of slavery i’m guessing there probably weren’t records for him anyway, or for his parents.
I don’t know where else to look for information. If anyone can suggest where else to search that would be great but i’m wondering if, in your experienced opinions, yous think i should just let this one go. I guess i would like to know what his name was, and where he originated from in the US. maybe i should just be content with the dna test showing the word of mouth stories were true.
Hi,
you comment that indigenous people in Australia didn't have official records .... May I mention that it was not only Indigenous Peoples who were without Official records.... Australia is a federation and it dates from 1 January 1901, so it was only the name of the Island in the years from say 1820 to 1900... the Scotsman, NSW Governor Lachlan Macquarie, used the label 'Australia' in the 1810s after Flinders had circumnavigated and offered 'Australis' .... as a name.
Each of its founding states was once a separate British Colony, and each colony set up, at various times prior to federation, their own institutions for registering and recording of BDMs..... that state based system remains to this day. New South Wales BDM registration process was established by NSW parliament to commence in 1856. Western Australia's BDM registration process dates from around 1840s, Victoria's from early 1850s, Queensland was not hived off NSW until 1859, Tasmania was VDL until mid 1850s, but bdm dates from 1830s, and South Australia from its foundations in late 1830s.
Many volunteers continue to provide support to various not for profit groups who concentrate on transcribing long hand records of remote communities in NSW and include the now offensive race based words showing if full, half, quarter etc .... I suggest WA BDM web site shows its current policy allows it to dedact those words when issuing certified copy of BDM.
I am not sure when compulsory registration was first enforced in Western Australia, but the tyranny of distance from registration offices would be a significant factor until perhaps very recent years.
JM
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"it might have been an African name"
I think this is very unlikely. Few African names, or even African words, survived slavery to make their way into the American language.
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Hello,
I’ve been searching for an ancestor of mine for a while though to be honest it was always in the too hard basket.
I’m not asking people here to look things up for me as i basically have nothing much to go on.
Due to the fact indigenous people in Australia didn’t have official records everything i know has been passed on through word of mouth.
I was always told i had African heritage, something i always believed but of course had no proof. The family tree that got passed around from about 40 years ago had three men listed in different branches saying “American whaler” or “American sealer”. Some (though not directly linked to me say “American Indian” or “Mexican Indian”).
One particular ancestor for me said “American Negro or “West African”.
My sisters and I have searched with the name we were given and haven’t come up with anyone who this man could be, until i found an American whaler with a similar name (probably pronounced the same but different spelling) being in the right area at the right time. We can’t seem to find anything on that man to rule him out. We’ve searched crew lists from New Bedford and New London etc and although there’s similar names none of them are the two names we’ve been told or that i found on the whaler’s index.
My dna matches connected with several people in the US, and one of them replied to my message saying it does look like we’re related 5 - 6 generations back which fits for this ancestor. They haven’t replied to my last message so i guess i won’t be getting help from that angle.
Since would have been born around 1820, and on a ship in 1840s with his daughter born in Western Australia about 1850, and because of slavery i’m guessing there probably weren’t records for him anyway, or for his parents.
I don’t know where else to look for information. If anyone can suggest where else to search that would be great but i’m wondering if, in your experienced opinions, yous think i should just let this one go. I guess i would like to know what his name was, and where he originated from in the US. maybe i should just be content with the dna test showing the word of mouth stories were true.
Hi,
you comment that indigenous people in Australia didn't have official records .... May I mention that it was not only Indigenous Peoples who were without Official records.... Australia is a federation and it dates from 1 January 1901, so it was only the name of the Island in the years from say 1820 to 1900... the Scotsman, NSW Governor Lachlan Macquarie, used the label 'Australia' in the 1810s after Flinders had circumnavigated and offered 'Australis' .... as a name.
Each of its founding states was once a separate British Colony, and each colony set up, at various times prior to federation, their own institutions for registering and recording of BDMs..... that state based system remains to this day. New South Wales BDM registration process was established by NSW parliament to commence in 1856. Western Australia's BDM registration process dates from around 1840s, Victoria's from early 1850s, Queensland was not hived off NSW until 1859, Tasmania was VDL until mid 1850s, but bdm dates from 1830s, and South Australia from its foundations in late 1830s.
Many volunteers continue to provide support to various not for profit groups who concentrate on transcribing long hand records of remote communities in NSW and include the now offensive race based words showing if full, half, quarter etc .... I suggest WA BDM web site shows its current policy allows it to dedact those words when issuing certified copy of BDM.
I am not sure when compulsory registration was first enforced in Western Australia, but the tyranny of distance from registration offices would be a significant factor until perhaps very recent years.
JM
The point being the genocide means there’s no records at all for Aboriginal people. Not even church records. Or the records that do exist are being kept from us because of Native Title or are so heavily redacted that they’re useless. I’ve tried to get them for my family several times and keep being told “we need permission from ...”. So while i have seen the files for my family i haven’t been able to get them
Myself. And again, this is getting off track because he probably doesn’t have any Australian records since he wasn’t Australian and might have been here for a limited time.
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Could your seafaring ancestor have been the son of a black woman and Irish man by the name of Mullaney?
I presume you have exhaunted all avenues in Australian records in case his place of origin was mentioned on any documents? You would need to check dates of availability in the State the events occurred, but things like obits, death records or d/c, his marriage, even his own children’s birth and death records may name parent’s place of birth (at least they do later on).
We don’t have any of this information.
He wasn’t born in Australia, his only daughter had an Aboriginal mother who would have gave birth squatting under a tree. No birth record, no baptism, no nothing.
Did he die in Australia? No idea. There’s no burial listing. Did he die at sea? Maybe. Did he go back to the US and live a nice ling life? Maybe. Did he go somewhere else like New Zealand or Tasmania and continue whaling? Maybe.
There is absolutely no official document with his name on it.
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"it might have been an African name"
I think this is very unlikely. Few African names, or even African words, survived slavery to make their way into the American language.
That’s assuming he was even from the US. Since the tree i inherited said “American Negro” or “West African” he might have actually been West African, and got on the ship in Africa.
We have no idea. I’m only going with US because it was a US ship and most of my Nigerian ethnic matches are in the US.
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Have you looked through historic newspapers? I don't know what the ones are like for Australia, but ones for America are pretty easy to access online.
Sometimes there are stories about sailors, things about court cases and so on. They can be quite detailed. You might be lucky and find something about a sailor under the name variations you have that gives you some more clues.
-
How many cms do you share with your highest matches who live in the USA?
You say you “inherited” a family tree. When was that tree complied? Recently, or generations ago?
OK, so you don’t have any official record of the birth of his only daughter. Do you have that daughter’s marriage or death certificates? What do they say about her father?
-
How many cms do you share with your highest matches who live in the USA?
You say you “inherited” a family tree. When was that tree complied? Recently, or generations ago?
OK, so you don’t have any official record of the birth of his only daughter. Do you have that daughter’s marriage or death certificates? What do they say about her father?
As i said previously, the tree was written about 40 years ago. I remember looking at it as a child in the 90s and it had bern around a while by then.
And also, like i said earlier, Aboriginal people didn’t have records. She would have been born under a tree. There wouldn’t be any official “marriage” but rather “you go with that man”. And now they’re considered married. Aboriginal people still “marry” in this way, with very few of us actually going to a church or even signing paperwork. We just “shack up” and it’s good enough for us.
I don’t want to keep focusing on the DNA stuff. It really doesn’t matter and it’s getting off the point of the thread. We know the dna is there, we know where it comes in. That’s not the information we’re looking for. We’re looking at how to track him from the US.
-
Have you looked through historic newspapers? I don't know what the ones are like for Australia, but ones for America are pretty easy to access online.
Sometimes there are stories about sailors, things about court cases and so on. They can be quite detailed. You might be lucky and find something about a sailor under the name variations you have that gives you some more clues.
I’ve looked through old newspapers online for Western Australia with all the variations of his name that i can think of, as well as “whaling”, “whalers”, “US” etc even “castle rock” where Biographical Index of whalers says a whaler named Molaney was, but not much came up for that. It was very early after European arrival (like, within the first 10 years) so the population was very small, the newspaper was more gossip than actual news and the shipping info was mostly “this ship arrived in port”. One line, ship names but no crew names.
-
Hello,
I’ve been searching for an ancestor of mine for a while though to be honest it was always in the too hard basket.
I’m not asking people here to look things up for me as i basically have nothing much to go on.
Due to the fact indigenous people in Australia didn’t have official records everything i know has been passed on through word of mouth.
I was always told i had African heritage, something i always believed but of course had no proof. The family tree that got passed around from about 40 years ago had three men listed in different branches saying “American whaler” or “American sealer”. Some (though not directly linked to me say “American Indian” or “Mexican Indian”).
One particular ancestor for me said “American Negro or “West African”.
My sisters and I have searched with the name we were given and haven’t come up with anyone who this man could be, until i found an American whaler with a similar name (probably pronounced the same but different spelling) being in the right area at the right time. We can’t seem to find anything on that man to rule him out. We’ve searched crew lists from New Bedford and New London etc and although there’s similar names none of them are the two names we’ve been told or that i found on the whaler’s index.
My dna matches connected with several people in the US, and one of them replied to my message saying it does look like we’re related 5 - 6 generations back which fits for this ancestor. They haven’t replied to my last message so i guess i won’t be getting help from that angle.
Since would have been born around 1820, and on a ship in 1840s with his daughter born in Western Australia about 1850, and because of slavery i’m guessing there probably weren’t records for him anyway, or for his parents.
I don’t know where else to look for information. If anyone can suggest where else to search that would be great but i’m wondering if, in your experienced opinions, yous think i should just let this one go. I guess i would like to know what his name was, and where he originated from in the US. maybe i should just be content with the dna test showing the word of mouth stories were true.
You have stated several times when others have suggested resources " there are no written records" and you have also stated "I don’t want to keep focusing on the DNA stuff. It really doesn’t matter and it’s getting off the point of the thread." ...............So when written records don't exist or you can find no primary connecting records you have to accept like anyone else that is the end of research of that line......certainly now unless written records are 'found' and become available in the future
Rootschaters are researchers, they find if available and research written records, you hve had several suggestions about where potentially to look all of which you have dismissed... you have to accept end of line!
-
Sometimes “getting off the track” and searching sideways can lead to breakthroughs. Surely looking at the DNA results is not off track anyway? :-\ What percentage DNA do you share with your high American matches?
Your ancestor was Australian aboriginal / African (American)? Did she marry a white man? Don’t necessarily assume there are no records of marriages, births etc. Several episodes of WDYTYA have shown otherwise, though I understand it may not have been the norm.
You say that you have seen records of your family but are not allowed to view them “without permission from …” Have to attempted to get that permission?
Regarding your family tree, you say there were three men in different branches who were described as having African heritage. Can you clarify please?
You seem a bit irritated by all the questions, but there is usually a method to our madness. (However, apologies for re-asking about the age of your family tree which you had previously mentioned). :)
-
Have you checked out San Francisco? A lot of ships working in the Pacific passed through there.
Also Hawaii.
https://www.sfgenealogy.org/sf/
-
Where did you get the names of the two American ships mentioned in your first post? You say your man’s name doesn’t appear on either of them.
This Wikipedia article mentions a bit about the history of whaling in WA:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Western_Australia
A few companies are named. It might be worth chasing up to see if any records survive.
-
I did some looking in Newport, RI for Moloney and variants. I thought the first man listed here was the most interesting possibility.
----
1830 Census of Newport, Rhode Island
page 33. [image 63 at ancestry.com]
Sanders Mullone/Mullane
household: 1 white male 70 to 80
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHP4-92H
I don't see him in 1820 in Newport. the 1820 census of Newport was recorded alphabetically by surname.
-----
1840 Census of Newport, Rhode Island
all white:
John Melloney (b 1800 to 1810 - )
+ __ (b 1800 to 1810 - )
- female (b 1830-1835 - )
- male (b 1835-1840 - )
- female (b 1835-1840 - )
Patrick Melloney (b 1800 to 1810 - )
+ __ (b 1800 to 1810 - )
- female (b 1830-1835 - )
- male (b 1835-1840 - )
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHYB-8FN
-----------
death of an Ann Mulooney indexed on familysearch, with some added information from ancestry.
(c 8 Aug 1857 - 8 Feb 1857, Newport), father: John Mulooney, "kin 2: Wm Springer" -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL92-TBLF
she could be a daughter of John Melloney on the 1840 census.
---------
This lady could be the widow of John or Patrick. found this on ancestry.com
1865 Rhode Island Census, Newport, Ward 5, family 2137 - all one household
Maloney
Ann, 65, born in Ireland, cannot read or write, housekeeper
Murry,
Ann, 22,
John, 15
Mary A, 12
Ambrose, 10
Sarah, 5
Dorcas, 4
All the Murrys were born in Newport
----------
1863 Newport Directory
Patrick Maloney, laborer, home at 55 Thames
Timothy Maloney, grocer at 9 Tanner, home at same address
There weren't any Maloney variants in the 1856 Newport directory, and that is the earliest one at ancestry. I haven' looked elsewhere yet.
----------
and for New Bedford, Massachusetts:
1820 Census - I didn't find any Moloneys in New Bedford, Massachusetts. the names are listed alphabetically.
on the 1830 Census of New Bedford the names are not listed alphabetically. there are 102 pages. I didn't go through them. you could browse them at familysearch if you want.
-
Further to my earlier reply: (add #26)
See the following website:
https://www.wa.gov.au/service/justice/civil-law/searching-family-history
If you are seeking Western Australia BDM documents, the general public can access historical certs, without needing permission from anyone:
In Western Australia, historical certificates are available to:
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for births 100 years old or more
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for deaths 30 years old or more
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for marriages 75 years old or more.
In recognition of the fact that the fraudulent use of certificates reduces with the age of the record, the evidence-of-identity requirements are not required for the historical certificates stated above.
There is an important message on that website, it reads:
Please note some words in Open Era records may cause offence. In order to avoid causing offence, the copy you receive will be redacted unless you specifically ask for an un-redacted copy. By asking for an un-redacted copy, you accept that the copy you receive could contain words that may cause, or be capable of causing, offence to you or someone else who is aware of it.
https://bdm.justice.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
RChat’s Resources Board for Western Australia
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369921.0
Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island Studies :
Western Australia: -
https://aiatsis.gov.au/family-history/where-get-help/western-australia
JM
-
I wonder if all of Trove has been accessed, or only the newspapers section. Anyway, just in case it has not been fully explored, I add the following links
https://www.nla.gov.au/blogs/trove/2016/01/19/aiatsis-on-trove
https://trove.nla.gov.au/landing/first-australians
https://trove.nla.gov.au/collection/aiatsis/abi (ABI - Biographical Index - There are about 70,000 records in the ABI and it is being continuously updated from both historical and contemporary Australian Indigenous works.)
JM
-
Hello,
I’ve been searching for an ancestor of mine for a while though to be honest it was always in the too hard basket.
I’m not asking people here to look things up for me as i basically have nothing much to go on.
Due to the fact indigenous people in Australia didn’t have official records everything i know has been passed on through word of mouth.
I was always told i had African heritage, something i always believed but of course had no proof. The family tree that got passed around from about 40 years ago had three men listed in different branches saying “American whaler” or “American sealer”. Some (though not directly linked to me say “American Indian” or “Mexican Indian”).
One particular ancestor for me said “American Negro or “West African”.
My sisters and I have searched with the name we were given and haven’t come up with anyone who this man could be, until i found an American whaler with a similar name (probably pronounced the same but different spelling) being in the right area at the right time. We can’t seem to find anything on that man to rule him out. We’ve searched crew lists from New Bedford and New London etc and although there’s similar names none of them are the two names we’ve been told or that i found on the whaler’s index.
My dna matches connected with several people in the US, and one of them replied to my message saying it does look like we’re related 5 - 6 generations back which fits for this ancestor. They haven’t replied to my last message so i guess i won’t be getting help from that angle.
Since would have been born around 1820, and on a ship in 1840s with his daughter born in Western Australia about 1850, and because of slavery i’m guessing there probably weren’t records for him anyway, or for his parents.
I don’t know where else to look for information. If anyone can suggest where else to search that would be great but i’m wondering if, in your experienced opinions, yous think i should just let this one go. I guess i would like to know what his name was, and where he originated from in the US. maybe i should just be content with the dna test showing the word of mouth stories were true.
You have stated several times when others have suggested resources " there are no written records" and you have also stated "I don’t want to keep focusing on the DNA stuff. It really doesn’t matter and it’s getting off the point of the thread." ...............So when written records don't exist or you can find no primary connecting records you have to accept like anyone else that is the end of research of that line......certainly now unless written records are 'found' and become available in the future
Rootschaters are researchers, they find if available and research written records, you hve had several suggestions about where potentially to look all of which you have dismissed... you have to accept end of line!
I dismissed because i had already looked at them.
Or because it wasn’t relevant to what i was asking.
And no, it wasn’t the end of the line. We actually had a breakthrough today because i did was someone on here suggested i do and trawl through lists.
Luckily, i didn’t see or take your advice.
-
I did some looking in Newport, RI for Moloney and variants. I thought the first man listed here was the most interesting possibility.
----
1830 Census of Newport, Rhode Island
page 33. [image 63 at ancestry.com]
Sanders Mullone/Mullane
household: 1 white male 70 to 80
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHP4-92H
I don't see him in 1820 in Newport. the 1820 census of Newport was recorded alphabetically by surname.
-----
1840 Census of Newport, Rhode Island
all white:
John Melloney (b 1800 to 1810 - )
+ __ (b 1800 to 1810 - )
- female (b 1830-1835 - )
- male (b 1835-1840 - )
- female (b 1835-1840 - )
Patrick Melloney (b 1800 to 1810 - )
+ __ (b 1800 to 1810 - )
- female (b 1830-1835 - )
- male (b 1835-1840 - )
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHYB-8FN
-----------
death of an Ann Mulooney indexed on familysearch, with some added information from ancestry.
(c 8 Aug 1857 - 8 Feb 1857, Newport), father: John Mulooney, "kin 2: Wm Springer" -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL92-TBLF
she could be a daughter of John Melloney on the 1840 census.
---------
This lady could be the widow of John or Patrick. found this on ancestry.com
1865 Rhode Island Census, Newport, Ward 5, family 2137 - all one household
Maloney
Ann, 65, born in Ireland, cannot read or write, housekeeper
Murry,
Ann, 22,
John, 15
Mary A, 12
Ambrose, 10
Sarah, 5
Dorcas, 4
All the Murrys were born in Newport
----------
1863 Newport Directory
Patrick Maloney, laborer, home at 55 Thames
Timothy Maloney, grocer at 9 Tanner, home at same address
There weren't any Maloney variants in the 1856 Newport directory, and that is the earliest one at ancestry. I haven' looked elsewhere yet.
----------
and for New Bedford, Massachusetts:
1820 Census - I didn't find any Moloneys in New Bedford, Massachusetts. the names are listed alphabetically.
on the 1830 Census of New Bedford the names are not listed alphabetically. there are 102 pages. I didn't go through them. you could browse them at familysearch if you want.
Thank you for the effort. None of these are the person i’m looking for but i’m sure it might help someone else in the future
-
Sometimes “getting off the track” and searching sideways can lead to breakthroughs. Surely looking at the DNA results is not off track anyway? :-\ What percentage DNA do you share with your high American matches?
Your ancestor was Australian aboriginal / African (American)? Did she marry a white man? Don’t necessarily assume there are no records of marriages, births etc. Several episodes of WDYTYA have shown otherwise, though I understand it may not have been the norm.
You say that you have seen records of your family but are not allowed to view them “without permission from …” Have to attempted to get that permission?
Regarding your family tree, you say there were three men in different branches who were described as having African heritage. Can you clarify please?
You seem a bit irritated by all the questions, but there is usually a method to our madness. (However, apologies for re-asking about the age of your family tree which you had previously mentioned). :)
I’m fed up with the DNA questions because it’s not actually going to give me an answer any time soon. The dna is pretty irrelevant other than to say what we were always told is true. So I specifically asked not to keep focusing on the DNA but actual documents but yet it keeps coming back to dna, and yet people on here keep saying “take the dna test with a grain of salt”. So which is it? Is the dna the absolute vital or is it not really?
Right now, i’m not fussed about the dna because other family members are still waiting on their results which will hopefully tell us more but, it might not. And since i’m a woman, and this comes from my father i wasn’t looking for much there anyway.
My 3xg grandmother (Yorjup, Aboriginal name) had an Aboriginal mother (Yeates, Aboriginal name) and an African American whaler father. The family tree i inherited had two men listed as her father (John James Low and Somebody Mullane/y) she was known by both names. Both of these men were African American whalers. It was decided one was more likely her father than the other, but since the other was still connected to the family in a different way (his daughter married the other man’s supposed grandson) i have continued to search for that man as well because we can’t rule him out and he’s still the ancestor of some of my relations so i figured since i’m paying for an Ancestry subscription that i would find information for them as well.
Now, that 3xggrandmother (Yorjup) married a man whose father was a white man, also supposed to have been a whaler or sealer. We have been working on this one as well and discovered the family tree we inherited was wrong. We now don’t know who this whaler was but we have an idea of his name (inherited tree said Abby or Ebenezer harris) and he’s been confused with two other white men (sealer John Harris, absolutely horrendous man that we’ve now rules out and Ebenezer Harris a farmer originally from Kent but i’m not convinced he’s the right man although he was at the right place at the right time) I’ll look into this man later.
Then, my great grandfather apparently always said his parents were first cousins with their father’s being brothers. I ruled this out based on the fact my convict 4xggrandfather coming from Wales and the other man (Ebenezer Harris) assumed to be the other 4xggrandfather coming from Kent. But then i went back to a tree that had been written (and published in a book) showing 4xggrandmother had a sealer/whaler father (no actual name given, just says American) and not the head of the tribe. So now we’re working on the head of the tribe being her grandfather and the nameless assumed white but could have been black sealer/whaler being her father and the mystery of the other 3xggrandfather biological father (the Abby/Ebenezer person). But of course, no proof and probably wrong.
So that’s 4, and now you’re probably very confused.
As for the records, there are Native Welfare files. But they’re not official documents. My uncle signed permission for my sister to get them and they were given to my sister because someone in the office assumed my uncle was our father. I can’t get them unless my father signs permission for me to get them and i have no intention of ever speaking to that man. My uncle can’t sign for me to get them because he’s in the Phillipines and with borders closed he won’t be here anytime soon. Most of these documents have been destroyed, damaged in storage or are heavily redacted.
There are other documents that the government has but since these are tied to Native Title the government won’t let us have them. Apparently the Native Title lawyers can access them but we can’t get them or view them ourselves.
And again, there are NO records of marriages. It’s simply not how Aboriginal people do marriages. It’s still very much “shacking up”. This is the way it used to be and we still do it. I’m married tribal way to a man from Papua. We don’t have a piece of paper saying we’re married and we did this because it’s the way of our ancestors. There are no marriage records for Yorjup or her parents. It just did not happen that way and there might not have been consent involved, either. Not so much the whalers but the sealers were absolute scumbags who stole women and brutalised them. So there may not have been a “marriage” for her parents.
-
Further to my earlier reply: (add #26)
See the following website:
https://www.wa.gov.au/service/justice/civil-law/searching-family-history
If you are seeking Western Australia BDM documents, the general public can access historical certs, without needing permission from anyone:
In Western Australia, historical certificates are available to:
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for births 100 years old or more
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for deaths 30 years old or more
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for marriages 75 years old or more.
In recognition of the fact that the fraudulent use of certificates reduces with the age of the record, the evidence-of-identity requirements are not required for the historical certificates stated above.
There is an important message on that website, it reads:
Please note some words in Open Era records may cause offence. In order to avoid causing offence, the copy you receive will be redacted unless you specifically ask for an un-redacted copy. By asking for an un-redacted copy, you accept that the copy you receive could contain words that may cause, or be capable of causing, offence to you or someone else who is aware of it.
https://bdm.justice.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
RChat’s Resources Board for Western Australia
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369921.0
Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island Studies :
Western Australia: -
https://aiatsis.gov.au/family-history/where-get-help/western-australia
JM
Yes, i’ve been through these, but again, Aboriginal people didn’t have these. Only white people had these documents with a rare Aboriginal person being listed.
My black family only started to have these records once my white 4xggrandfather made a lot of money with mining. You’re suggesting i find records for black people in the 1850s when they didn’t start having these records for black people until just before 1900.
-
Where did you get the names of the two American ships mentioned in your first post? You say your man’s name doesn’t appear on either of them.
This Wikipedia article mentions a bit about the history of whaling in WA:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Western_Australia
A few companies are named. It might be worth chasing up to see if any records survive.
I got names of ships because someone wrote a thesis a couple of years ago which listed whaling ships that had been in Western Australia. Originally, my sister found this document as the Biographical Index of whalers i posted a link to earlier. However, further googling turned up
The full thesis, with a database showing origin ports and number of ships by years. I highlighted the ports with more than 10 ships in the area for the those years and then process if elimination, started with the Port with the most ships. Maths is not my string point but i had to start somewhere so i went with the port with the most ships.
Then, that thesis lists the names off the ships and what years they were here. So i highlighted ships from that port that were here in the right years (i went with a 20 year gap).
Then, i’ve started checking crew lists for names similar to Mullaney. I’m only up to D in the list of ship names but i have found a few potential men, one more likely than others and so strangely it was a ship i had randomly put my finger on previously because it was here at the right time, not because i had seen the crew list. I still have a lot to go through and i haven’t even started on the other ports yet.
-
Have you asked your sister for copy
Sometimes “getting off the track” and searching sideways can lead to breakthroughs. .....
I’m fed up with the DNA questions because it’s not actually going to give me an answer any time soon. The dna is pretty irrelevant other than to say what we were always told is true. So I specifically asked not to keep focusing on the DNA but actual documents but yet it keeps coming back to dna, and yet people on here keep saying “take the dna test with a grain of salt”. So which is it? Is the dna the absolute vital or is it not really?
Right now, i’m not fussed about the dna because other family members are still waiting on their results which will hopefully tell us more but, it might not. And since i’m a woman, and this comes from my father i wasn’t looking for much there anyway.
My 3xg grandmother (Yorjup, Aboriginal name) had an Aboriginal mother (Yeates, Aboriginal name) and an African American whaler father. The family tree i inherited had two men listed as her father (John James Low and Somebody Mullane/y) she was known by both names. Both of these men were African American whalers. It was decided one was more likely her father than the other, but since the other was still connected to the family in a different way (his daughter married the other man’s supposed grandson) i have continued to search for that man as well because we can’t rule him out and he’s still the ancestor of some of my relations so i figured since i’m paying for an Ancestry subscription that i would find information for them as well.
Now, that 3xggrandmother (Yorjup) married a man whose father was a white man, also supposed to have been a whaler or sealer. We have been working on this one as well and discovered the family tree we inherited was wrong. We now don’t know who this whaler was but we have an idea of his name (inherited tree said Abby or Ebenezer harris) and he’s been confused with two other white men (sealer John Harris, absolutely horrendous man that we’ve now rules out and Ebenezer Harris a farmer originally from Kent but i’m not convinced he’s the right man although he was at the right place at the right time) I’ll look into this man later.
Then, my great grandfather apparently always said his parents were first cousins with their father’s being brothers. I ruled this out based on the fact my convict 4xggrandfather coming from Wales and the other man (Ebenezer Harris) assumed to be the other 4xggrandfather coming from Kent. But then i went back to a tree that had been written (and published in a book) showing 4xggrandmother had a sealer/whaler father (no actual name given, just says American) and not the head of the tribe. So now we’re working on the head of the tribe being her grandfather and the nameless assumed white but could have been black sealer/whaler being her father and the mystery of the other 3xggrandfather biological father (the Abby/Ebenezer person). But of course, no proof and probably wrong.
So that’s 4, and now you’re probably very confused.
As for the records, there are Native Welfare files. But they’re not official documents. My uncle signed permission for my sister to get them and they were given to my sister because someone in the office assumed my uncle was our father. I can’t get them unless my father signs permission for me to get them and i have no intention of ever speaking to that man. My uncle can’t sign for me to get them because he’s in the Phillipines and with borders closed he won’t be here anytime soon. Most of these documents have been destroyed, damaged in storage or are heavily redacted.
There are other documents that the government has but since these are tied to Native Title the government won’t let us have them. Apparently the Native Title lawyers can access them but we can’t get them or view them ourselves.
And again, there are NO records of marriages. It’s simply not how Aboriginal people do marriages. It’s still very much “shacking up”. This is the way it used to be and we still do it. I’m married tribal way to a man from Papua. We don’t have a piece of paper saying we’re married and we did this because it’s the way of our ancestors. There are no marriage records for Yorjup or her parents. It just did not happen that way and there might not have been consent involved, either. Not so much the whalers but the sealers were absolute scumbags who stole women and brutalised them. So there may not have been a “marriage” for her parents.
-
Have you checked out San Francisco? A lot of ships working in the Pacific passed through there.
Also Hawaii.
https://www.sfgenealogy.org/sf/
I considered it but haven’t looked into it. Most of the whaling ships in WA came from New Bedford.
The thesis shows a few other ports and includes French ships so i have a few to work through now.
-
Have you asked your sister for copy
Sometimes “getting off the track” and searching sideways can lead to breakthroughs. .....
I’m fed up with the DNA questions because it’s not actually going to give me an answer any time soon. The dna is pretty irrelevant other than to say what we were always told is true. So I specifically asked not to keep focusing on the DNA but actual documents but yet it keeps coming back to dna, and yet people on here keep saying “take the dna test with a grain of salt”. So which is it? Is the dna the absolute vital or is it not really?
Right now, i’m not fussed about the dna because other family members are still waiting on their results which will hopefully tell us more but, it might not. And since i’m a woman, and this comes from my father i wasn’t looking for much there anyway.
My 3xg grandmother (Yorjup, Aboriginal name) had an Aboriginal mother (Yeates, Aboriginal name) and an African American whaler father. The family tree i inherited had two men listed as her father (John James Low and Somebody Mullane/y) she was known by both names. Both of these men were African American whalers. It was decided one was more likely her father than the other, but since the other was still connected to the family in a different way (his daughter married the other man’s supposed grandson) i have continued to search for that man as well because we can’t rule him out and he’s still the ancestor of some of my relations so i figured since i’m paying for an Ancestry subscription that i would find information for them as well.
Now, that 3xggrandmother (Yorjup) married a man whose father was a white man, also supposed to have been a whaler or sealer. We have been working on this one as well and discovered the family tree we inherited was wrong. We now don’t know who this whaler was but we have an idea of his name (inherited tree said Abby or Ebenezer harris) and he’s been confused with two other white men (sealer John Harris, absolutely horrendous man that we’ve now rules out and Ebenezer Harris a farmer originally from Kent but i’m not convinced he’s the right man although he was at the right place at the right time) I’ll look into this man later.
Then, my great grandfather apparently always said his parents were first cousins with their father’s being brothers. I ruled this out based on the fact my convict 4xggrandfather coming from Wales and the other man (Ebenezer Harris) assumed to be the other 4xggrandfather coming from Kent. But then i went back to a tree that had been written (and published in a book) showing 4xggrandmother had a sealer/whaler father (no actual name given, just says American) and not the head of the tribe. So now we’re working on the head of the tribe being her grandfather and the nameless assumed white but could have been black sealer/whaler being her father and the mystery of the other 3xggrandfather biological father (the Abby/Ebenezer person). But of course, no proof and probably wrong.
So that’s 4, and now you’re probably very confused.
As for the records, there are Native Welfare files. But they’re not official documents. My uncle signed permission for my sister to get them and they were given to my sister because someone in the office assumed my uncle was our father. I can’t get them unless my father signs permission for me to get them and i have no intention of ever speaking to that man. My uncle can’t sign for me to get them because he’s in the Phillipines and with borders closed he won’t be here anytime soon. Most of these documents have been destroyed, damaged in storage or are heavily redacted.
There are other documents that the government has but since these are tied to Native Title the government won’t let us have them. Apparently the Native Title lawyers can access them but we can’t get them or view them ourselves.
And again, there are NO records of marriages. It’s simply not how Aboriginal people do marriages. It’s still very much “shacking up”. This is the way it used to be and we still do it. I’m married tribal way to a man from Papua. We don’t have a piece of paper saying we’re married and we did this because it’s the way of our ancestors. There are no marriage records for Yorjup or her parents. It just did not happen that way and there might not have been consent involved, either. Not so much the whalers but the sealers were absolute scumbags who stole women and brutalised them. So there may not have been a “marriage” for her parents.
She doesn’t have them. She and i message each other a million times a day discussing this. She’s the one mentioning we can’t access the records where i know we can’t access them and don’t dwell on it.
We can say we can’t access them a hundred times a day but it still doesn’t get us access to them. I’m like “well, we can’t get them. Let’s focus on the ones we can access”. Dwelling on it won’t help us. And we don’t really know what they say anyway. They might actually say nothing.
We only have a few pages copied and those relate to a different branch of the family
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Hogwash, there are definitely records back earlier than 1850s for both WA bdm and the AIATSIS. JM.
Further to my earlier reply: (add #26)
See the following website:
https://www.wa.gov.au/service/justice/civil-law/searching-family-history
If you are seeking Western Australia BDM documents, the general public can access historical certs, without needing permission from anyone:
In Western Australia, historical certificates are available to:
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for births 100 years old or more
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for deaths 30 years old or more
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for marriages 75 years old or more.
In recognition of the fact that the fraudulent use of certificates reduces with the age of the record, the evidence-of-identity requirements are not required for the historical certificates stated above.
A
There is an important message on that website, it reads:
Please note some words in Open Era records may cause offence. In order to avoid causing offence, the copy you receive will be redacted unless you specifically ask for an un-redacted copy. By asking for an un-redacted copy, you accept that the copy you receive could contain words that may cause, or be capable of causing, offence to you or someone else who is aware of it.
https://bdm.justice.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
RChat’s Resources Board for Western Australia
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369921.0
Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island Studies :
Western Australia: -
https://aiatsis.gov.au/family-history/where-get-help/western-australia
JM
Yes, i’ve been through these, but again, Aboriginal people didn’t have these. Only white people had these documents with a rare Aboriginal person being listed.
My black family only started to have these records once my white 4xggrandfather made a lot of money with mining. You’re suggesting i find records for black people in the 1850s when they didn’t start having these records for black people until just before 1900.
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Hogwash, there are definitely records back earlier than 1850s for both WA bdm and the AIATSIS. JM.
Further to my earlier reply: (add #26)
See the following website:
https://www.wa.gov.au/service/justice/civil-law/searching-family-history
If you are seeking Western Australia BDM documents, the general public can access historical certs, without needing permission from anyone:
In Western Australia, historical certificates are available to:
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for births 100 years old or more
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for deaths 30 years old or more
• Anyone (16 years of age or over) for marriages 75 years old or more.
In recognition of the fact that the fraudulent use of certificates reduces with the age of the record, the evidence-of-identity requirements are not required for the historical certificates stated above.
A
There is an important message on that website, it reads:
Please note some words in Open Era records may cause offence. In order to avoid causing offence, the copy you receive will be redacted unless you specifically ask for an un-redacted copy. By asking for an un-redacted copy, you accept that the copy you receive could contain words that may cause, or be capable of causing, offence to you or someone else who is aware of it.
https://bdm.justice.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
RChat’s Resources Board for Western Australia
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369921.0
Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island Studies :
Western Australia: -
https://aiatsis.gov.au/family-history/where-get-help/western-australia
JM
Yes, i’ve been through these, but again, Aboriginal people didn’t have these. Only white people had these documents with a rare Aboriginal person being listed.
My black family only started to have these records once my white 4xggrandfather made a lot of money with mining. You’re suggesting i find records for black people in the 1850s when they didn’t start having these records for black people until just before 1900.
Not hogwash at all.
If you think you can access them then go ahead.
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Aithne
Im really impressed by your research and your tenacity with so few documents at your disposal .
I hope you will write a book about your search ...whatever the final outcome ..
Your post has certainly raised a lot of interest and probably helped many others
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I have volunteered my time transcribing longhand documents for many groups for decades. I can assure you that among those efforts I have transcribed official records for the colony of Western Australia in the 1840s and have read and transcribed :
'Full blood"
'gin"
"Half-caste"
And other words that are definitely referring to race.
JM