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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => Topic started by: lnr on Sunday 06 June 21 06:09 BST (UK)

Title: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: lnr on Sunday 06 June 21 06:09 BST (UK)
I am looking for the birth Of Mary Ann SMITH about 1852. Nz She married 1870 july 19th at a dwelling house Kakamatua Manukau Harbour to Thomas PRIOR. The only birth I can find in Historical BDMs is a mary Ann Smith her parents being Robert Smith and Esther whom turned out to be Henley. This has turned out not to be her.  I have read the obit of Mrs M A PRIOR 2 sept 1940 this is her. I think her father was Robert Smith and Hannah Willis. Other children were born in Tasmania. I would also like to find the ship they came to Nz on from Tasmainia which I know may not be possible. Thanks lnr
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 06 June 21 06:20 BST (UK)

The 1870 marriage certificate - what names do you see for witnesses?

What church do they marry in ie denomination?

Auckland Stat 2 Sep 1940   p4   Obit for Mary Ann PRIOR
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19400902.2.43?
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 06 June 21 07:35 BST (UK)
This obituary states that the father of Mary Ann Prior was a veterinary surgeon.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19400903.2.100?phrase=2&query=mary+ann+prior&snippet=true

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 06 June 21 09:47 BST (UK)
Post deleted.

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 06 June 21 10:06 BST (UK)

NZ BDM births
1870/14664   PRIOR Elizabeth Hannah    ps  Mary Ann / Thomas   
1873/21833   PRIOR Mary Ann          ps  Mary Ann / Thomas   
1874/24517   PRIOR Annie                  ps  Mary Ann / Thomas   
1877/377      PRIOR Edward Thomas      ps  Mary Ann / Thomas
1879/440           PRIOR William                  ps  Mary Ann / Thomas   
1881/10269   PRIOR Thomas                  ps  Mary Ann / Thomas
1882/1124   PRIOR Stephen                  ps  Mary Ann / Thomas


Then Thomas PRIOR dies. In such cases the surviving spouse would need to remarry. Your Mary Ann PRIOR nee SMITH does not remarry.

How does Mary Ann PRIOR support her several children?

You need to see the marriage certificate, 1870. This is the earliest evidence you have that Mary Ann SMITH existed.
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 06 June 21 13:57 BST (UK)
I think her father was Robert Smith and Hannah Willis. Other children were born in Tasmania.

Do you mean Thomas SMITH and Hannah WILLIS.  Who were the other children?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: lnr on Monday 07 June 21 00:26 BST (UK)
 Yes sorry meant Thomas Smith. Marriage to Hannah Willis 1841 Hamilton Tasmania Aust 27 Dec Charles william clark smith born 20 aug 1843 Tasmania Dont know other child. All I would like to know is where her birth is registered and also if possible when her parents came from Australia.Dont want any other info thanks lnr
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Dundee on Monday 07 June 21 03:22 BST (UK)
There are no births registered to this couple in Tasmania or NZ.  You would need to look for baptism records in both Australia and NZ.  They are held at Tas. Archives and some info here on NZ church registers.

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/New_Zealand_Church_Records

Debra  :)
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 07 June 21 04:38 BST (UK)
Yes sorry meant Thomas Smith. Marriage to Hannah Willis 1841 Hamilton Tasmania Aust 27 Dec Charles william clark smith born 20 aug 1843 Tasmania

 All I would like to know is where her birth is registered and also if possible when her parents came from Australia.Dont want any other info thanks lnr

Hi lnr

Below is Obituary for the Charles William Clark(e) SMITH.    If he is the brother of the Mary Ann you seek, then the Obit. mentions the name of the brig "Isabella" in which his family travelled from Tasmania on.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NA19320620.2.63

    ~  Lu

Edited .... just querying the age given in the Obit. - because there are several ages stated in different records.   Will get back to you on this.
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 07 June 21 04:48 BST (UK)
NZ BDM (online)

Death
1932 / 4622 - SMITH - Charles William Clarke-- 89 years


SO above age is in keeping with his birth year of 1843.
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 07 June 21 04:51 BST (UK)
[[And death notice for C.W.C. SMITH  >    has 97th year.     ???

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WT19320620.2.32   ]]


[[  edited to add ... cemetery record also has age at death as 96 years.   ]]

  Q.     LNR ... where did you get the birth / baptism info for Charles William Clark SMITH ??

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 07 June 21 06:35 BST (UK)
Mr & Mrs SMITH and 4 children 1850. Isabella from Hobart

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DSC18500301.2.3?end_date=31-12-1860&items_per_page=10&query=Isabella+smith+hobart&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1850

Added - Hannah's cert of Freedom dated 9 Feb 1850 so that fits with then hopping on a boat

https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON40-1-10$init=CON40-1-10P161

might come back and delete all that, but posting for now  :)
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 07 June 21 11:48 BST (UK)
Well found McKha.   ;)   1850 eh ... ( I'd searched 1851 through to 1854)  ;D
--------
 
"Double wedding" - 1870

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH18700723.2.14
 ... is the Hannah a sibling of Mary Ann or her mother ?

     ~   Lu
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: lnr on Wednesday 09 June 21 04:56 BST (UK)
thank you so much for your wonderfull work  much appreciatted lnr
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 09 June 21 07:34 BST (UK)
Deleted
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: lnr on Friday 11 June 21 00:34 BST (UK)
Yes Hannah was her mother she remarried John William GEARY.Charles william Clark Smiths birth was found on Ancestry. On his obit I think things are a little bit wrong in some places. Thanks lnr
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 11 June 21 01:25 BST (UK)

Is this your Hannah?

Thames Advertiser 11 Apr 1892 p2
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/THA18920411.2.3?

GERRY - On the 9th of April, at the son's residence, Kiri Kiri, Hannah Martha GERRY, formerly Mrs SMITH, aged 81 years.  Auckland papers please copy.

Do you have this death printout?.  What documentation do you have for BDM events in the lives of the  SMITHs, PRIORs and GEARYs?

"...Charles william Clark Smiths birth was found on Ancestry. On his obit I think things are a little bit wrong in some places."

Whose obit?.  If you are seeing an obit for Charles William Clark SMITH, can you please identify it.....name and date of newspaper.
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 11 June 21 01:48 BST (UK)

Whose obit?.  If you are seeing an obit for Charles William Clark SMITH, can you please identify it.....name and date of newspaper.

wivenhoe .... read reply # 8
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 11 June 21 01:50 BST (UK)

Thames Star 30 Apr 1931 p4
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/THS19310420.2.13?

......95th birthday of Charles William Clark SMITH......
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 11 June 21 01:57 BST (UK)
Yes sorry meant Thomas Smith. Marriage to Hannah Willis 1841 Hamilton Tasmania Aust 27 Dec Charles william clark smith born 20 aug 1843 Tasmania

 All I would like to know is where her birth is registered and also if possible when her parents came from Australia.Dont want any other info thanks lnr

Hi lnr

Below is Obituary for the Charles William Clark(e) SMITH.    If he is the brother of the Mary Ann you seek, then the Obit. mentions the name of the brig "Isabella" in which his family travelled from Tasmania on.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NA19320620.2.63

    ~  Lu

Edited .... just querying the age given in the Obit. - because there are several ages stated in different records.   Will get back to you on this.
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 11 June 21 03:58 BST (UK)
Yes Hannah was her mother she remarried John William GEARY.

 ....   Charles william Clark Smiths birth was found on Ancestry. On his obit I think things are a little bit wrong in some places. Thanks lnr

Hi lnr

You don't say "where" on ancestry you found birth ??

Earlier I'd come across a "Charles William CLARK -  [that is, surname "CLARK"] - born at Hobart, TAS on 12 August 1843 - baptised 27 August 1843" - Son of William CLARK and Sarah CLARK :

If you have taken information for "Charles William Clark SMITH - s/o Thomas and Hannah (nee WILLIS) SMITH" from a certain tree or trees @ ancestry site, then you'll find that their child Charles William Clark SMITH  >  has been given the same birth date and baptism date as the C.W. CLARK, s/o William and Sarah CLARK).      AND it looks also as if Hobart (birthplace of this CLARK child) has been replaced on tree to show "Hamilton, TAS" (where Thomas and Hannah had wed in 1841).     ???  ???
[Source of Birth / baptism for Charles William CLARK, 1843 - ^ above - is Australia Births and Baptisms, 1792-1981 at ancestry.com ]

As I'd said earlier, there were other NZ "records" which indicated different ages (birthyears) for Charles William Clark SMITH.     You'll note also from the PapersPast article mentioned in this thread, that this man was apparently celebrating his 95th birth in April 1931.
Have not found any record in AUS for this person's birth.

And it's always wise to remember that "someone else" has written-up an Obituary (not the deceased person - although they may have provided information, they are no longer around to correct any errors it may contain).  ::)

      ~  Lu

edited to correct and insert further text.
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 11 June 21 04:09 BST (UK)
for LNR 

... I feel sure that the 1850 shipping record found by McKha for the vessel "Isabella", is most likely to be the SMITH family's arrival in NZ.    added - See Reply # 11

[  And you'll see what I mean about treating Obituaries with caution.   C.W.C. SMITH had said he was 10 years of age when he arrived here on the "Isabella" ......    ???    ]

    ~  Lu
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 11 June 21 05:51 BST (UK)
for LNR

Some background info for Thomas SMITH in following articles >

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DSC18650703.2.15
...  drowning

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZ18650704.2.18
  ... Inquest

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DSC18650705.2.23
  ...  Inquest

Thomas SMITH said to have had a large family  /  gave his occupation(s)  / mention of a son by name / someone had known Thomas for fourteen ?  years ....

     ~  Lu
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 11 June 21 06:01 BST (UK)
for LNR

SMITH - Burials - St Peters, Onehunga, Auckland

Thomas SMITH - d. 29 June 1865 aged 65 years

Hannah SMITH* - d. 9 April 1892 aged 71 Years

James SMITH - d. 15 August 1879 aged 33 years


[ *  Hannah SMITH is same person as Hannah GEARY or GERRY (her 2nd married name) ]

   ~  Lu

PS  :   I don't know how far back records for St. Peter's Church, Onehunga, go ??    Maybe They have early NZ baptism records ??
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 11 June 21 06:08 BST (UK)
Am guessing this is a son of Thomas and Hannah SMITH.   (Buried with them at Onehunga)

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18790818.2.7
Title: Re: birth Of mary ann Smith
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 11 June 21 06:38 BST (UK)
Baptismal registers for St Peters, Onehunga >

https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22459596?search%5Bi%5D%5Bname_authority_id%5D=-119127&search%5Bpath%5D=items

Mmm ... looks like they start at 1865. 
But maybe Mary Ann (if) baptised at another Auckland church ?