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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: hunkyhywel on Wednesday 09 June 21 12:49 BST (UK)
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See attachment for Francis Day's military record. I can't read the 'treatment' or 'observation' column for his admission to hospital with gonorrhoea. Any help appreciated!
ALSO - I can't read the locations in the first column which appear between his two trips to Aldershot. I believe he served on the Gold Coast in the third anglo-ashanti war if that helps.
Thank you!!
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treatment is something injections.
observation is contagion.
You could read about contemporary treatments for the disease to come up with suggestions for the words
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Treatment is Astringent injections.
The answer to your question in the Subject is: sex!
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It is a sexually transmitted venereal disease .
ie by intercourse not using any protective contraception.
Highly contagious , usually men got it from women who were prostitutes ,or women getting it from men who have visited such women ,then go home to their wives!
With the advent of the contraceptive pill,protective contraceptives are used less frequently than prior to the pill and so contact diseases like gonorrhoea
are spread much easier.
Very common in the British Army in France in WW1, not that The Germans were immune!
Very treatable now with I think the sulphide drugs .
Viktoria.
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A blog re historical treatments:
https://blogs.bmj.com/sti/2012/06/25/managing-gonorrhoea-in-a-world-without-antibiotics/
Managed today by antibiotics.
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Slightly off track - my dad was a sick berth petty officer in the Royal Navy, he told me the cure for syphilis was arsenic injections and a nasty gadget used for scraping internal sores off. Sounds drastic!
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Aldershot
Curragh
? C Africa
Thorn(cliff-?) or ending in 'gh' :-\
Aldershot
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Syphilis is quite sinister, has periods of remission when before blood tests people thought they were cured.
Can be transmitted to babies , they have a characteristic copper coloured rash and hoarse cry when born.
Very prevalent and some of the cemeteries uncovered in the Rail Track excavations were dedicated to young women who earned their living as prostitutes,easily recognisable as theur skeletal remains showed the decalcification of bones etc.
Lord Randolph Churchill ( Sir Winston’s father)was supposedly a victim ,but was still a Cabinet Minister.
Paralysis of the Insane was the given cause of death in many sufferers.
Folk songs mention it in a round about way
“ But the sailor gave to me a rose,
A rose that never will decay ,
He gave it to me ,to keep me well minded
Of when he stole my thyme (time?) away.
The rose being the bright red chancre ,the typical mark of Syphilis.
Hey nonnny no!
Cheerio,
Viktoria.
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https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gonorrhoea/
Sex, or as foetus. "The bacteria cannot survive outside the human body for long." "The bacteria that cause gonorrhoea are mainly found in discharge from the penis and in vaginal fluid."
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? C Africa
Thorn(cliff-?) or ending in 'gh' :-\
W C Africa (= West Central Africa)
Shorncliffe (? odd spelling? A large military base near Folkestone, Kent)
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Curragh
Long article "The Curragh Army Camp" in "History Ireland"
https://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/the-curragh-army-camp/
The section "The camp becomes permanent" mentions "She-barracks" where some wives & women lived. If they were left behind when their men moved on, some fell into prostitution. Next section is "Curragh wrens" who were prostitutes. They lived in hovels. There were encampments of "wrens" outside some other garrisons in Ireland. Some became "wrens" because they were made destitute by the Great Famine of 1840s. A Lock Hospital for women with VD opened in Kildare in 1869.
Article about Curragh "wrens" and "She-barracks" in Newbridge, County Kildare in newspaper "Irish Times" 27th March 2019. Includes 1874 photo of military encampment at the Curragh. There were "wren" women all over Ireland.
1862 parliamentary committee to enquire into VD in armed forces. Resulted in Contagious Diseases Acts 1864, 1866, 1869. The Acts applied to certain ports and army towns & bases, including the Curragh, Cork and Cobh, places where there were huge numbers of troops. Women suspected of having disease could be detained in hospital or sent to prison.
Some prominent women including Florence Nightingale, Harriet Martineau and Josephine butler campaigned against the Acts and for their repeal. Ladies National Association for the Repeal of the Contagious Diseases Acts was formed 1869 and fielded a candidate in the general election.
Westmorland Lock Hospital in Dublin was founded late 18thC. "Irish Times" article 9th Nov. 2018. "Syphilis and gonorrhoea were rife in 19th century particularly among soldiers."
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My OH was in the forces and it was common knowkledge that only "Other Ranks" caught Venereal Disease from the opposite sex. Officers caught it from toilet seats.
Several years ago there was a programme where a doctor was explaining to an amateur family history researcher the reason why so many children born to a couple in her tree had died and why a few had survived. Apparently there was a classic pattern to child survival when parents had VD..
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https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gonorrhoea/
Sex, or as foetus. "The bacteria cannot survive outside the human body for long." "The bacteria that cause gonorrhoea are mainly found in discharge from the penis and in vaginal fluid."
You're confusing gonorrhoea and syphilis. The latter can infect a foetus in the womb, but gonorrhoea isn't passed on to unborn children.
However it can cause a very nasty eye infection, which could lead to blindness, if the mother was infected at the time of birth and the baby picked up the infection by direct contact in its eyes during the birth.
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It is a sexually transmitted venereal disease .
ie by intercourse not using any protective contraception.
Highly contagious , usually men got it from women who were prostitutes ,or women getting it from men who have visited such women ,then go home to their wives!
Any woman can catch gonorrhoea - it just takes an infected man to give it to her. So not just prostitutes.
Very common in the British Army in France in WW1, not that The Germans were immune!
Men can also catch it from each other through gay sex, and I'm sure (although it's never been acknowledged formally) that that also happened in the trenches, and indeed in any other all-male environment when the opportunity arose.
Sulphides aren't much used these days --- too many adverse reactions.A lot of gonorrhoea across the world is resistant to penicillin these days too. There are other antibiotics with a better chance of cure.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gonorrhea/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20351780
DOI: I have in the past worked as a doctor in a sexual health clinic!
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Perhaps the OP could come back to comment on the responses!
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Annie, you have ignored my last statement “ then go back to their wives”.
Meaning a perfectly innocent woman can be infected by her husband if he has has had unprotected sex with an infected woman ,which was often a prostitute.
What did you not understand in that statement.?
Viktoria.
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Annie, you have ignored my last statement “ then go back to their wives”.
Meaning a perfectly innocent woman can be infected by her husband if he has has had unprotected sex with an infected woman ,which was often a prostitute.
What did you not understand in that statement.?
Viktoria.
Are you absolutely sure that it was that way round?
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Annie, you have ignored my last statement “ then go back to their wives”.
Meaning a perfectly innocent woman can be infected by her husband if he has has had unprotected sex with an infected woman ,which was often a prostitute.
What did you not understand in that statement.?
Viktoria.
I suspect I understand you perfectly, Viktoria, but I really dislike the implication that the wife is "perfectly innocent" and a woman who may have been paid for sex is something else. Women, when denied the opportunity to earn a decent living, have always had to do whatever they can to keep themselves and children fed; being a sex worker is not usually a chosen profession when alternatives exist and I don't think it should attract opprobrium. I think it's also worth bearing in mind that wives had affairs whilst husbands were away, and that not all sexual activity is consensual, particularly in war zones where rape has always been weaponised.
Or, the short answer, I don't like implied discrimination against people according to their level of sexual activity.
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Well figures don’t exist .
However, men don’tget pregnant and certainly in the time of
WW1 It was a bold woman who would have sex with someone other than her husband,so per se it was much less common for a woman to pass Gonorrhoea
to her husband ,because the fear of pregnancy was a good “ contraceptive “ by way of being a deterrent ,so no I can’t be sure but can you be sure it was the other way?
British soldiers in France were able to access prostitutes pretty easily, should they choose to do so.
They got treatment as we know , so may not have been infected when they returned to home life.But some would be.
But just to mention Manchester ,for all along Piccadilly, down Market St , in Lewis’s Arcade, Cross St,- the “ Ladies of the night” stood waiting for customers,in broad daylight!
The Uni students always played that up on Shrove Tuesday in Rag Week.
You did not see men waiting for “ customers”.
On a visit from College to a clinic treating venereal diseases.
The figures spoke for themselves ,75/25%.men to women patients ., many women had no idea from what they were suffering and had no idea how they had got the disease!
When the only way was explained to them ,it was often the first they knew that their husbands had been unfaithful .
I remember one woman’s comment,passed to us by the M,O. “ I waited for him to come home all through the war ,never bothered with other men and he has brought this to me”.
I really think it was more often men infecting decent women who were not prostitutes, than the other way round ie, decent women infecting men, there has to be sexual contact with an infected person, that was usually a prostitute.
Ordinary women generally did not wait for “business ,” in well known spots.!
Of course the women who infected men were very often prostitutes.
It does not occur spontaneously !
It is passed on in adults only one way!
So I stand by my statement.
I have however not blamed women who earn a living by prostitution, as you say it was often the only way they could earn a living , but they continued to work ,out of necessity I agree, ,knowing full well they were infectious.
It comes back to unfaithful, men in great part.!
Viktoria.
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1. i had no idea, Viktoria, that you were old enough to remember WW1.
2. One reason for the disparity between males and females wrt STIs is that men who have sex with men run a higher risk of STIs than do women or men who only have sex with women. Of course men didn't stand and wait for clients back in the days when homosexuality was illegal; but I can assure you that such transactions take place nonetheless.
3. Please can we drop the idea that some women are "decent" (ie have less sex, that's really what you mean!) and by extension, others are not?
Longstanding "joke" (in the same vein as an alcoholic being someone who drinks more than his/her doctor): q. Define promiscuity. a. someone who has more sex than I do.
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Well this thread took an entertaining turn! As it happens, my question was mere clickbait to attract some helpers!
Big thanks to KGarrad for reading 'astringent' and Ruskie and Bookbox for reading the locations, it's really helped me track Francis down in new record sets!!
Thank you Annie for sassy demonstrations of your intimate knowledge of humanity's sexual habits in detail and related diseases.
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I was not talking about homosexuals, I was comparing women who stood waiting for customers,clients ,call them what you will , with men who did the
approaching not standing around waiting to be approached by women.
I used the word decent to differentiate between women who were not sexually active in the way prostitutes were ,including as decent married women faithful to their husbands .
I am 84.
My father was a soldier in France in WW1 ,he recounted many things but not of course what the original post was about .
I lived in Belgium for twelve years and know the battlefields at Ypres so well, and so have read so much of the literature of the time.
Read any history of that war and the “ mademoiselles “ from “Armentiers “ or anywhere else are often mentioned.
Robert Graves’ , “ Goodbye to all that “,Richard Aldington’s “Death of a Hero”.
etc.mention the problem of STD.s
You don’t have to be well over 100 years old to know about WW1 ,just read and listen as I did to someone who had been through it.
That prostitutes were mentioned by me and women not prostitutes were labelled as “ decent” was to differentiate .
Necessity dictates often ,but to continue working when infected probably knowing what the results of that could be , including infected babies , well, it is not very responsible ,even though there was the need to earn .
I did not condemn ,if you don’t like the term “ decent “ what would you use to differentiate between women who earn a living in that way ,accommodating men and facilitating their unfaithfulness and women who have a more normal sex life and stay faithful..The decent part pertains to the immorality of a life in prostitution compared with a faithful monogamous wife.
You have chosen to come over all righteous indignation ,I am not aware of your age but you must also understand how things have drastically changed,attitudes vastly altered ,and moral boundaries have become much more fluid.
And whilst we are more tolerant of things than past generations were, there are still a few things that need to be less relaxed than now.
Only this evening ,it was said girls of eleven were being sexually harassed at school ,last night’s Coronation St. was ,well, phew!
At 7-3o in the evening.
The relaxing of standards can mean often girls are respected less, that is not
improvement .
So I do not condemn prostitutes, it has even been said they could have saved many marriages !
Women can have as much sex as they choose to have, note I say choose!
If they choose to be promiscuous ,then they too run risks., but they made a choice.
There is little choice in a life of prostitution though, ,nor money as Pimps control the “girls”.
When I said decent , I referred to women who were not promiscuous , often by choice , staying loyal to their vows,and there are still many who do keep those.
Think of another term, to describe such women if you don’t like “ decent” .
But you assumed too much by my use of that word ,so have you got one you think more fitting ?
Viktoria.
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My OH was in the forces and it was common knowkledge that only "Other Ranks" caught Venereal Disease from the opposite sex. Officers caught it from toilet seats.
My father was in the Navy during the war - he was told that only Winston Churchill and the Archbishop of Canterbury were allowed to catch VD from a toilet seat.
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I was born in 1947. By the outbreak of WWI, All four of my grandparents were already married and starting their families, so as a child I had many family members (Grandparents, Great aunts/Uncles, as well as my parents and their siblings) to learn about THE WARS, THE DEPRESSION .... and ... about:
Decent Women
The Ladies of the Night
Babies born on the Wrong Side of the Bed
Women on Street Corners
Here's an edited version of a rural NSW town's 'dust up' in early 1960s
Alice who went from being a DECENT Woman to being FALLEN
:) Next door's Alice got engaged - you could prove this because she had a shiny ring on her ring finger on her left hand.
:) There was a fisty cuffs next door, and the men got 'thumped' by Alice's Mr PIMP.
:) Mr Pimp was a postman but on the weekends, he got Alice to service the married Men who went without
:) Alice's brothers found out
:) Alice's brothers thumped Mr Pimp back
:) Mr Walloper arrested Mr Pimp and drove him to drink
:) Alice got very fat and had to take her ring off
:) Alice sold her ring to make ends meet
:) David arrived next door from the hospital. He was eight days old.
:) Mum gave Alice lots of second hand clothes for baby David.
:) Alice kept baby David even though everyone said she was a FALLEN woman.
David grew up, and he is still in contact with my youngest sibling. His mum is still alive. She never married, her Mum 'came good' and let her stay at home to raise David. David's father was never heard of again after being dismissed from the CofA Public Service for bringing the Post Office into 'disrepute' but Alice required ongoing medical treatment for the G and David too.
JM
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What a sad tale about poor Alice being treated as a thing to be used. Good to read that your Mother had some compassion and helped out with clothes for baby David.
Some people have an easy road through life but this sadly seems not to have been the case for Alice.
She was a human being and respect to her, she managed to keep her baby even though things must have been very tough.
In my view, it was the people who 'used' her who were more the 'fallen' ones.
We might all have our different views on this but I am 100% against prostitution. I think this is just some people taking advantage of and exploiting people (even children sadly). I know it is said that for some it is a lifestyle choice. But if so, in my opinion it would be a very poor choice and using 'prostitutes' is unjustifiable.
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My OH was in the forces and it was common knowkledge that only "Other Ranks" caught Venereal Disease from the opposite sex. Officers caught it from toilet seats.
My father was in the Navy during the war - he was told that only Winston Churchill and the Archbishop of Canterbury were allowed to catch VD from a toilet seat.
My dad, during his time as a sick berth petty officer, treated men who'd caught something. He said they were all warned before they had some time ashore, lots of them didn't listen, and would turn up in sick bay a while later - "Sir, I think I've got a dose."
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As it happens, my question was mere clickbait to attract some helpers!
Posts: 282 (0.096 per day)
Male/Age: 28
Location: UK
At my age, I'm not too keen on cynically being baited - as with most rootschatters I just wanted to help give an opinion on the times we used to live in.
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I have a lot of similar stories in my family history majm, only further back.
One of the biggest eye openers for me while researching my family history has been the number of illegitimate babies, who were kept by their mothers, who form part of my family tree. I'm currently looking a Victorian era branch of my family and most of the women were pregnant when they got married. Some split up from their husbands, or their husbands left them, and ended up living with and having children with other men.
Yet these women don't seem to have been shunned by society, many go on to marry other men when their first husbands died and keep their children with them. I've got at least one relative whose son, on paper at least, seems to have had a good relationship with his step-father as he named his eldest child after him, surname as a middle name and all.
I suspect that the poverty of these people was a factor. A lot of the families I've been looking at are just renting a room or two in a house, in situations where at least four families are stuffed in one house. 17 to 20 people in one not particularly large house. I think that in those circumstances, people were just practical and understood that women had to do whatever they could do to get by, and if that meant having a relationship with another man once their husband had walked out, then so be it. Working women's wages were typically pretty low - how else could you get by?
I currently live in an ex-mining community and one thing that has been passed down to me anecdotally from the past is that if a women lost a husband in a mining accident, she would almost inevitably marry another miner in a matter of months. Her feelings didn't come into it, as a woman with children she couldn't survive on her own income and had to take practical steps in order to provide for her children.
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My thoughts too, Rena, regarding 'mere clickbait'.
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Annie, it is not “ less sex” that makes a woman decent or otherwise, it is with whom she has sex, her legal partner or someone else.
A married couple can be raving sex addicts with each other, that is perfectly alright, but outside the marriage no, ,absolutely no!
That is the difference between decent and otherwise.
Paid or free , sex outside marriage is adultery, the possibilities we have discussed,STD,s and a stone in that pool has very far reaching circles.
Free love, call it what you will ,always has serious repercussions ,and often
ends in innocent people being betrayed ,hurt and made seriously ill ,even unborn babies.
Women pay a higher price in such things , it is up to,us to look after ourselves as far as possible .
There are always innocents like Alice ,and it was a great tragedy that girls with no knowledge ,( parent’s efforts to protect them ,) did exactly the
opposite , like lambs to the slaughter they were used and abused, paid the price in social terns in ignorance and as in Ireland were treated like
criminals .
Viktoria.
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Military locations have always attracted prostitutes, in Germany where it was legal, they used to gather outside the barracks in the evenings. When living in Berlin in the seventies, on many occasion we wives were accosted by the ‘girls’ when going into the barracks to evening classes, they thought we were stealing their business. :o
Being legal, the ‘girls’ had regular medical checks, so the risk of men catching VD was much reduced.
These days if the men do catch something it’s considered a self inflicted injury.
If you want to learn more about prostitution, I suggest reading A Chatham Scandal by Brian Joyce. Although about Chatham, much of it applies to any Garrison of Naval Town, it’s covers the lives of prostitutes and poor women, the law and Lock Hospitals for the treatment of venereal diseases etc. It’s a great read for social history.
The Lock Hospitals were virtually prisons under another name, the women and girls were locked in and not allowed to leave. It shows the double standards where the women were the problem and the men innocent.
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"That is the difference between decent and otherwise."
Pope Viktoria has spoken.
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I agree that historically these women and girls in the past who gave birth to so called 'illegitimate' babies were not the 'harlots' and 'criminals' that they were often made out to be. I agree they were more likely to have been the innocents of society. Likely not understanding the repercussions they and their children would have to face. Over trusting dreamers perhaps, who believed in happy endings.
I have a Grandmother (died long before I was born) who was born 'illegitimate' in 1895. When I looked into her background looking at records and newspapers, I discovered that her Mother had only been 17 when she gave birth. This Great Grandmother was the eldest in what was to be a family of ten children. Her Father, my Great x 2 Grandfather appears to have been a violent drunkard. It hardly surprises me that she may have just been a terribly naive young girl looking for love outside her awful home life.
When I first obtained a copy of my Grandmother's birth cert I felt pain in my heart seeing my Great Grandmother described as her 'Mother' for what would be the one and only time it would seem. Grandmother was fortunately kept in the family but from then on they were 'sisters' rather than Mother and Daughter. A very heavy price I feel not to be able to 'own' your true relationship . Great Grandmother went on to marry and had five more children. All these did well. My Grandmother appears on none of the family portrait photos with her half siblings. It would appear that my Great Grandmother and Grandmother kept the secret from the other children (half siblings) until both their dying days. I get the impression from things I have heard that my Grandmother seems to have had a chip on her shoulder and always seemed to have had the sense of being an outsider. How sad! I am glad that things are much better in society these days. It would seem ridiculous these days to have to give up your child just because you aren't married.
Even Royalty in the past sometimes paid a high price. I have read that Queen Victoria's Uncle William had many 'illegitimate' children (ten I think) with the actress Dorothy Jordan. His parents totally shunned these Grandchildren and William was later virtually forced to marry someone else. However, new wife Adelaide was a kind person who accepted all his children. William's eldest by Dorothy later committed suicide. :'(
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"That is the difference between decent and otherwise."
Pope Viktoria has spoken.
How would you define decent Erato?
Do you think it is important to be decent when that means not betraying someone to whom you made vows.?
Not doing things that can never be undone ,from which there is no going back.?
Not breaking vows made when things were all lovey dovey but when things are not so good forgetting them?
To be decent in this context is greatly to do with being faithful, an outmoded
idea to some people nowadays it would seem.
But not to others.
You made an inflammatory statement Erato so expect to get at least somewhat singed !
We wanted a loving settled home for our children so that is why I only threw the clock at my husband once!
Viktoria.
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"You made an inflammatory statement"
Okay, you're right; not the pope, just Mrs. Grundy.
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My paternal grandmother had three children out of wedlock, in 1912, 1915 and 1916. She was a servant when she had my father and seemed to bring up all of them to be respectable citizens. My father becoming a Master Mariner. She lived with her grandmother and her brother in Devonport and as far as I know never married. Was she immoral, or indecent?
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Straying somewhat from the original question,but since you ask, Viktoria:
I don't consider it appropriate to issue value judgements about another person based on their sex life, as long as that sex life is between consenting adults.
I believe you can be a DECENT human being by caring for the world around you and those in it and by working to help people. Who you have sex with (as long as it's another consenting adult) doesn't come into that. You could be totally monogamous with your partner, yet be the most horrible selfish cruel person in other respects - that would not make you "decent".
The separation between what you term "decent" women and what you, or others, term "fallen women", allows a mindset which devalues women who have sex outside tightly societally defined boundaries, and results in the sort of abuses seen in situations such as the magdalene laundries in Ireland to give just one example. It also lets men off the hook - because it is only ever the woma who is held responsible! If you feel it's appropriate to use "slutty" epithets for female sex workers, where are the similar terms for men who use prostitutes? This more than any is a customer-driven trade -- without clients, there would be no prostitution! Why blame the women?
Language is important. Using terms like this easily leads to the conclusion that some people are less worthy of help, or deserve punishment for their "sins" -- even that their children, totally through no doing of their own, are equally or even more undeserving. Again I say, look at the magdalene laundries for recent examples of where this leads.
I don't expect for one moment that I will have swayed your opinion with this post, Viktoria, though I find attitudes like this narrow and unforgiving. You'll probably be glad to hear that I don't plan on adding further to this line of conversation as I think I've said everything that I can say.
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Antiquesam, I think your Grandmother sounds like neither immoral or indecent but rather a hard working, loving Mother who brought her children up well. Exactly, what I discovered my Great Grandmother to have been with the children she was able to keep.
Talking of the Magdalene launderies has there ever been an official apology for that? There should be.
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So Annie ,you think adultery is OK?, as long as it is between consenting adults , ignoring what their marital circumstances and obligations are, which innocent parties will be hurt etc!
Phew!That says a lot!
Viktoria.
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What I think we might have to take into consideration - we DON'T know the personal circumstances of those people, AT THAT TIME. Let's face it, we weren't there and so only know what has been "reported" by those who THINK THEY KNOW BETTER - and we all know that there are a lot of those individuals around. :-X :-X
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So Annie ,you think adultery is OK?, as long as it is between consenting adults , ignoring what their marital circumstances and obligations are, which innocent parties will be hurt etc!
Phew!That says a lot!
Viktoria.
Really? What do you think your interpretation of my posts says? Please tell.
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"You made an inflammatory statement"
Okay, you're right; not the pope, just Mrs. Grundy.
Actually a female Pope would do some good.
I am not thinking of applying , mind you, so many apologies to be made for things done by predecessors etc.
Covering up the historic abuses of Altar and choir boys by priests but locking up unmarried girls if they were expecting a baby, then taking the babies from them.
Perhaps you won’t have seen a British TV comedy programme “ Only Fools and Horses” ,
Trigger a poor soul is being teased by friends in the pub, they say to him
“ You don’t even know who your father is!”
( His Mum had “ comforted the troops” during the war)
“ I do, it is on my Birth certificate !”
“ Go on then tell us what it says in the column where it says”Father’,”
Trigger replies :- “ Some soldiers”.
Aaaaw!
Poor Trigger.
Viktoria.
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My interpretation of your post was interpreted as you meant it to be I strongly feel .
Viktoria,
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My interpretation of your post was interpreted as you meant it to be I strongly feel .
Viktoria,
No, no, you said that it says "a lot". So what do you think it says?
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Now I know Confirmation of why I gave up religion when I was in my teens - 1950s :-X Holier than thou :-X
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How do you catch it?
It is a sexually transmitted infection (STI) caused by bacteria called Neisseria gonorrhoeae or gonococcus.... often without clear visable symptoms in women so many didn't even know they had it so also passed from a mother to her baby during childbirth, so children could be born with it, however it also caused unfertility and ectopic pregnancy, so when researching FH I do wonder at times those who married and died within the first year of marriage or didn't have children if potentially it was because of gonorrhoea.
Now treated with antibiotics however it was not until 1928 that penicillin, the first true antibiotic was 'invented' until then other 'treatments' were used to kill the bacteria but even they didn't happen until 20th century
History of treatments http://www.antimicrobe.org/h04c.files/history/Gonorrhea.asp
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Several years ago there was a programme where a doctor was explaining to an amateur family history researcher the reason why so many children born to a couple in her tree had died and why a few had survived. Apparently there was a classic pattern to child survival when parents had VD..
Could someone explain what this pattern is, if anyone knows? I am sure I have seen or read something before, but cannot find it.
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That could be Syphilis ,there is a window of time when symptoms sort of go into remission, people thought they were cured ,sadly not .
In the case of Sir Randolph Churchill ,Winston was not born with it ,but it
was the cause of death of his father.
It is a complex subject ,but babies can be born with it and also Gonorrhoea can give an unborn baby some symptoms.
It was standard practice to wipe a new born’s eyes with silver nitrate to make sure they had not been infected during birth.
Viktoria.
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You said “ as long as it is between consenting adults it does not matter who you have sex with” .
“ You can be a decent person by caring for others etc,sex does not come into that.”
Well I see a greater picture, it would seem to please
yourself and not care who that hurts is OK with you, if you want to sleep,with them.
Never mind the possibility of a broken home, etc etc .
You can’t go through life pleasing yourself at the expense of others ,so your statement thst being decent is about caring for others etc ,is that all others except those you would sleep with never mind if they have wives/ partners and children.?
I think the term is “ Hoist by your own petard”.
Viktoria.
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Several years ago there was a programme where a doctor was explaining to an amateur family history researcher the reason why so many children born to a couple in her tree had died and why a few had survived. Apparently there was a classic pattern to child survival when parents had VD..
Could someone explain what this pattern is, if anyone knows? I am sure I have seen or read something before, but cannot find it.
Once upon a time I could remember minutiae - unfortunately that's not now the case. I vaguely recall that some babies were stillborn, others lived a very short while and others could live until two years old, yet others in the same family lived into adulthood. I think it depended on timing, but can't recall what timing !!
Just like you, I have been unable to find any online documentation setting out the the specific and various whys and wherefors of diseases visited on unborn children by their parents in earlier centuries..
https://www.cdc.gov/std/syphilis/stdfact-congenital-syphilis.htm
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if you're going to use quotation marks, Viktoria, you need to quote accurately rather than paraphrase.
what I actually said is:
I don't consider it appropriate to issue value judgements about another person based on their sex life, as long as that sex life is between consenting adults.
I believe you can be a DECENT human being by caring for the world around you and those in it and by working to help people. Who you have sex with (as long as it's another consenting adult) doesn't come into that. You could be totally monogamous with your partner, yet be the most horrible selfish cruel person in other respects - that would not make you "decent".
I am not a lawyer but I believe that using inaccurate "quotes" and attributing them to another person is covered by the libel laws.
You may feel able to judge others. I prefer not to.
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Now now Chatters, don’t you think it’s time to cool it? I am sure the OP was asking a simple question, not expecting to start a verbal battle. ::)
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I gave the gist of two sentences ,to save me going back .
Your meaning was not altered.
Viktoria.
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Hi,
I too am concerned. My concern is that, to me, Annie's post reads as though it is threatening Viktoria with legal action.
if you're going to use quotation marks, Viktoria, you need to quote accurately rather than paraphrase.
what I actually said is:
I don't consider it appropriate to issue value judgements about another person based on their sex life, as long as that sex life is between consenting adults.
I believe you can be a DECENT human being by caring for the world around you and those in it and by working to help people. Who you have sex with (as long as it's another consenting adult) doesn't come into that. You could be totally monogamous with your partner, yet be the most horrible selfish cruel person in other respects - that would not make you "decent".
I am not a lawyer but I believe that using inaccurate "quotes" and attributing them to another person is covered by the libel laws.
You may feel able to judge others. I prefer not to.
I await assurance that there is no hectoring intended.
JM
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As it happens, my question was mere clickbait to attract some helpers!
Posts: 282 (0.096 per day)
Male/Age: 28
Location: UK
At my age, I'm not too keen on cynically being baited - as with most rootschatters I just wanted to help give an opinion on the times we used to live in.
It is not yet six clock on Saturday morning here. A tennis match in Paris is on TV. And I asked my husband "what is clickbait" .... he said ....Dunno.... ask RChat .....
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Majm (and anyone else), rest assured that I have no intention of involving any legal processes or professionals.
However, the point stands; that if you quote someone in a public sphere, you need to be sure that your quote is accurate; and if you're paraphrasing, or using the gist of something you shouldn't use quote marks. I was paraphrased, not quoted.
I am not litigious by nature.
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"I am not litigious by nature."
That's very decent of you.
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An eye catching title to draw people in but which can be slightly misrepresenting.
As in this case the OP probably knew already how people contract gonorrhoea. He probably hoped to reel people in with giving answers for the title question but his real aim was to get help with understanding the form. A bit like 'Now that you're here ..?'
I have been drawn into clickbait articles in the past - sometimes 50 pages of nonsense or such and adverts all the way which is probably the real reason for luring people in. Now I try to avoid them or just google the title.
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Thank you.
One set all, five games all in third set.
JM
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"Clickbait" in this context refers to a title which is not actually representative of the post to which it refers, but which is designed to pique people's curiosity and get them to click on the link to see what it is about.
In effect it is the bait to hook you into reading the post which follows. In this case, instead of simple having a "dull" title like "what is the third word in this document" OP chose to mention catching Gonorrhoea. To be fair, the fact that this thread now stretches to seven pages would suggest the tactic worked.
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Well the OP admitted early on that his question was 'mere clickbait to attract helpers.' He then goes on thank the RootsChatters for answering what he had been really hoping to find out on the record.
I suppose no real harm done but a tad deceptive to get people rushing forward to answer a question that is irrelevant. ::)
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4th set .now.
Thank you for explaining clickbait. My husband says .... RChat is more interesting than Google but the tennis is of the highest standard... :D it's on regional NSW free to air channel called GEM.
Nadal 6-3, 3-6, 6-7, 2-4...love 15 on his serve
JM
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Your husband is right .. Rootschat is more interesting than a lot of things.
OP might be hearing from my lawyers in the morning regarding this click bait lark .. or maybe not😉😎
I hope you are enjoying the tennis majm .. not being sporty minded myself I don't quite understand the score sets you are relaying so I am not sure which RootsChatters are winning at the moment. Shall we call it a draw and now all head off to bed? 😉
PS Well done to Nadel on doing so well! Or is he doing well? .. I really don't know about this love thing .. ;D. Goodnight everyone.
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I hope you are enjoying the tennis majm .. not being sporty minded myself I don't quite understand the score sets you are relaying so I am not sure which RootsChatters are winning at the moment. Shall we call it a draw and now all head off to bed? 😉
PS Well done to Nadel on doing so well! Or is he doing well? .. I really don't know about this love thing .. ;D. Goodnight everyone.
The game is French, it probably came to the UK with the Normans.
"Love" is French = l'oeuf = the egg = nil = nought = zero = zilch = nada .
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It may be clickbait.but nearly put me off to see that dreadful word in the title and by adding a reply I'm pushing it to the top again .
It's a horrible disease and a nightmare to spell
But lots of interesting points about prostitution
Health effects on children and a morality debate
I don't think rape has been mentioned yet. !
The post is now about tennis a much safer subject.
Ps you can ask modifiers to alter title at any point
Contagion is easier to spell
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My sincerest apologies to all who may have been offended by the title! I will use boring ones from now on. That said, I quite enjoyed the drama which has come of this.
Enormous thank you to those who have helped me decipher how Francis caught gonorrhoea: contagion.
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I have never heard “ IT “ called that before ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Contagion !
Viktoria.
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Well, ummm .... back in the 1810s, in NSW, the newly appointed governor, Lachlan Macquarie, issued some General Orders ..... if anyone is interested, RCHATS search engine for "criminal intercourse" may well return threads where I have posted live links to the then Government Gazettes with the Orders and the lengthy explanations as to why they were issued.
JM. One finger typing while enjoying cuppa made for me.
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When I saw the "Clickbait" comment I wondered if they were asking the original question "for a friend". :D
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Thanks Rena, for explaining what "love" is in the context of tennis. Just out of curiosity and apologies for straying slightly off onto tennis does this mean Nadel has lost 15 times? ???
Careful, there antiquesam! :o That aspersion could be libel! Let's just hope the OP is not litigious by nature. ;D 8)
Viktoria, this is the first time I have seen this called 'contagion' too. ;D ;D ;D
I doubt anyone was really offended by the clickbait Hunkyhywel and I suppose to be fair you did get into your real question straight in your first post. Plus it has not turned out so bad .. we have all had a education on the topic as well as learning more about other diverse topics such as tennis. Plus I learned a new word yesterday 'litigious' so I could say my working vocabulary has gone up. :D
Every day is a school day on RootsChat! ;)
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My sincerest apologies to all who may have been offended by the title! I will use boring ones from now on. That said, I quite enjoyed the drama which has come of this.
Enormous thank you to those who have helped me decipher how Francis caught gonorrhoea: contagion.
And there I was, thinking you were one of life’s innocents ::)
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I can't quite say I enjoyed the drama as much as Hunkyhywel did yesterday as I am not one for arguments .. but I must say Erato's quickfire quips certainly made me laugh along the way. Hilarious! ;D ;D ;D
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"Love" is French = l'oeuf = the egg = nil = nought = zero = zilch = nada .
Good heavens. It has only taken 56 years for me to learn that. Thanks, Rena!
Despite my (grammar) school insisting that we all play tennis, they never explained the history of the terminology. Well, there you go...
I love this forum. :-*
And I must admit to having thoroughly enjoyed following this thread. 8)
Thanks, boys 'n girls,
Karen
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Well, ummm .... back in the 1810s, in NSW, the newly appointed governor, Lachlan Macquarie, issued some General Orders ..... if anyone is interested, RCHATS search engine for "criminal intercourse" may well return threads where I have posted live links to the then Government Gazettes with the Orders and the lengthy explanations as to why they were issued.
"Criminal conversation" was a term for adultery in England in 18th century.
One of my ancestors was pregnant 3 times without being married, during the first half of the 1860's, the first baby born when she was 18. It was at the time of the Lancashire Cotton Famine. An estimated quarter of the population of her town were receiving Poor Relief. I have suspicions about reasons for the pregnancies, some not pleasant. The man she eventually married when she was 27 wasn't the father of her children. Some unemployed cotton operatives turned to prostitution during the Cotton Famine.
My ancestor seemed to be following family tradition. Her eldest aunt had 3 pregnancies as a "Singlewoman" from her late teens to mid-20s, only surviving child was brought up by grandparents.