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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: EmmaDean on Thursday 10 June 21 06:58 BST (UK)
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Hello!
I am really hoping that someone might be able to help as I have hit a brick wall in my research and don't know where to turn next! I am trying to track down my great-great grandfather, Francis George Woodhouse.
All seems well from 1901 onwards (in that I can at least find records relating to him), but I am really struggling to find anything before then. Here is what I know:
From what I can establish (this is from the 1939 England and Wales register), Francis was born on the 21st April. I am not sure whether the year of birth is 1877 (as stated on the Register), or 1875 (as is stated on what I believe is a reference to his service file number with the Military of Defence);
In the 1901 Census, I believe I have a record of Francis being based at Plymouth barracks. I believe that record states that he is a Bombadier with the Royal Garrison Artillery;
Francis married Ellen Maud Britton at Portsmouth Registry Office on the 28th September 1901;
Sometime between then and 1902, Francis and Ellen moved to India. This was presumably because of Francis' position in the army. In 1902, their daughter Dorothy Maud Woodhouse was born, followed by Gerald Britton Woodhouse in 1904, Annie Lilian Woodhouse in 1906 and Frederick Thomas Woodhouse in 1907. Sometime between then and 1909, the family returned to the UK and their youngest daughter, Phyllis Kathleen Woodhouse, was born in 1909. I believe that she was born in Woolwich barracks;
In the 1911 Census, Francis is stated as being based at Woolwich barracks. He is stated as being a Sergeant in the 48th Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery;
I have other records for Francis, including his Medal Index Card. From that, I believe that he was commissioned in 1916 and he held the ranks of Battery Sergeant Major, Lieutenant and Captain. The 'theatre of war' is stated as being Mesopotamia;
Francis' son, Gerald, was killed in a shooting incident at Barry Buddon camp in Dundee, in 1929. This was quite widely reported in the media, which is how I really began my research on Francis. In the reports, he is stated as being a retired Captain of the Royal Garrison Artillery;
I have located the death registration record for Francis and obtained a copy of the death certificate. He died on the 15th September 1947 at 77 Heavitree Road in Exeter. I am not sure whether this was a hospital? At the time, he lived at 138 Monks Road, Exeter;
I have located a burial record for Francis. He was buried on the 18th September 1947 in Higher Cemetery, Exeter. This is almost certainly correct as this is the same cemetery in which Gerald is buried. Having checked the burial index cards, I have noted that Ellen is buried at the same cemetery as well;
The Census records state that Francis was born in Plymouth, Devon, (St Andrew’s, according to the 1901 census) however, I cannot find any connecting birth registration record;
The marriage certificate states Francis' father as being 'Thomas Woodhouse', however, I cannot find any record connecting a Thomas Woodhouse with a Francis Woodhouse. I believe that this ‘Thomas’ could also have been in the military as the marriage certificate states his occupation as being ‘Pensioner R.h’ which I understand is a reference to Royal Hospital, Chelsea;
There is another Francis George Woodhouse who was born in September 1875 in London. His father is James Woodhouse. I believe, therefore, that these are not the same people.
That is the main information I have been able to find so far. It is very frustrating (and odd??!) that I cannot seem to find any record of Francis before 1901. Is there anyone who might be able to help me unravel this mystery?!
Thank you so much in advance for any help anyone might be able to give me in tracking down my great-great grandfather before 1901.
Emma
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Hi Emma,
We've been corresponding about this on The Genealogist forum.
Have you seen that the army lists have a different birthdate for him - 30 April 1877: https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/89294649?mode=transcription
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77 Heavitree Road in Exeter
That is/was Exeter City Hospital.
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Hi Emma,
We've been corresponding about this on The Genealogist forum.
Have you seen that the army lists have a different birthdate for him - 30 April 1877: https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/89294649?mode=transcription
Hi Shaun,
Yes, we have! I’m trying all avenues that crop up as I’m trying to break down this apparent brick wall!
I had noted that date of birth. Which is just even more confusing now as I have multiple different ones: 21st April 1875, 21st April 1877, 21st April 1887 and 30th April 1877. I keep coming up with more questions than answers!
I am probably very ‘wet behind the ears’ when it comes to this family tree malarkey, but I just don’t understand how I can find quite a few records for him (or, at least I think they are for him!) from 1901 onwards, but not before!
Kind regards,
Emma
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77 Heavitree Road in Exeter
That is/was Exeter City Hospital.
Thanks, Shaun. Thought so.
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‘Pensioner R.h'
Is it definitely R h? Not RN ?
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‘Pensioner R.h'
Is it definitely R h? Not RN ?
As far as I can tell. What would the significance of the latter be?
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RN would be Royal Navy
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RN would be Royal Navy
Interesting point raised there, Shaun - particularly as I know that William Britton, Francis’s wife’s father, was in the Royal Navy and his occupation is stated as being the same as Thomas’s on the marriage certificate 🤔
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You do wonder if Francis reinvented himself for some reason, and if he wasn’t really who he said he was, and/or not born when and where he claimed. In 1911, he’s in Woolwich Barracks as a Sergeant, age 38 years, and so another YOB (1872/3), but still born in Plymouth. However, there are only 13 civil birth registrations for Woodhouse in Plymouth and immediate areas from 1863-83 and none look like Francis George.
Francis’ wife, Ellen, was born in Budleigh in Devon (according to the 1911 census) and it may be her in 1881 in Chapel Street, East Budleigh, with parents William (Naval Pensioner) and Elizabeth Britton, although her POB is Morice Town (Devonport). In 1891, she’s still with parents in East Budleigh, and also two Gibbs cousins born in Australia. In 1901, she’s in Plymouth as a domestic born Budleigh.
Interestingly, there is also a Woodhouse family in East Budleigh. In 1881, there's George G Woodhouse, age 50 yrs, born Sedgley in Staffs, clerk in holy orders living at Otterbourne House along with his wife, four children, and various pupils and servants.
I wonder if Francis was born as someone else, taken in by George Woodhouse, and given his name (or taken his name years later). Might be worth digging into this a bit more.
EDIT: In 1881, the Woodhouse children are Mary b 1859 Shropshire, George E b 1867 Budleigh, Lawrence b 1874 Budleigh and Emmeline D b 1876 Budleigh. There are birth registrations for Mary and Emmeline (Dorothea) with mother’s maiden name Benson. Also brs for male Woodhouse Q2 1866, female Woodhouse Q2 1868 and John Woodhouse Q3 1871, all mmn Benson and in St Thomas (the Budleigh registration district).
The male Woodhouse born 1866 could be George E (George Edward bp 1866 East Budleigh), and the female Woodhouse br 1868 could be Ruth Martin Woodhouse (bp 1868 East Budleigh) but I can’t find a br for Lawrence, although he was bp 1873 East Budleigh. He seems to be a pupil in Great Amwell in 1891, and a school teacher in Malvern in 1901, but might there be other children to George and Elizabeth Woodhouse without an obvious birth registration?
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You do wonder if Francis reinvented himself for some reason, and if he wasn’t really who he said he was, and/or not born when and where he claimed. In 1911, he’s in Woolwich Barracks as a Sergeant, age 38 years, and so another YOB (1872/3), but still born in Plymouth. However, there are only 13 civil birth registrations for Woodhouse in Plymouth and immediate areas from 1863-83 and none look like Francis George.
Francis’ wife, Ellen, was born in Budleigh in Devon (according to the 1911 census) and it may be her in 1881 in Chapel Street, East Budleigh, with parents William (Naval Pensioner) and Elizabeth Britton, although her POB is Morice Town (Devonport). In 1891, she’s still with parents in East Budleigh, and also two Gibbs cousins born in Australia. In 1901, she’s in Plymouth as a domestic born Budleigh.
Interestingly, there is also a Woodhouse family in East Budleigh. In 1881, there's George G Woodhouse, age 50 yrs, born Sedgley in Staffs, clerk in holy orders living at Otterbourne House along with his wife, four children, and various pupils and servants.
I wonder if Francis was born as someone else, taken in by George Woodhouse, and given his name (or taken his name years later). Might be worth digging into this a bit more.
EDIT: In 1881, the Woodhouse children are Mary b 1859 Shropshire, George E b 1867 Budleigh, Lawrence b 1874 Budleigh and Emmeline D b 1876 Budleigh. There are birth registrations for Mary and Emmeline (Dorothea) with mother’s maiden name Benson. Also brs for male Woodhouse Q2 1866, female Woodhouse Q2 1868 and John Woodhouse Q3 1871, all mmn Benson and in St Thomas (the Budleigh registration district).
The male Woodhouse born 1866 could be George E (George Edward bp 1866 East Budleigh), and the female Woodhouse br 1868 could be Ruth Martin Woodhouse (bp 1868 East Budleigh) but I can’t find a br for Lawrence, although he was bp 1873 East Budleigh. He seems to be a pupil in Great Amwell in 1891, and a school teacher in Malvern in 1901, but might there be other children to George and Elizabeth Woodhouse without an obvious birth registration?
Thank you very much for this Flemming. You’ve echoed my thoughts exactly in terms of whether Francis was not born as Francis and assumed that name a bit later in life. I just don’t know how on earth I figure out who, when and why?! ??? ??? And who is this Thomas Woodhouse who is named as Francis’s father on the marriage certificate…?
I think you’ve found the right Ellen there - her maiden name was Britton.
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Hi Emma,
We've been corresponding about this on The Genealogist forum.
Have you seen that the army lists have a different birthdate for him - 30 April 1877: https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/89294649?mode=transcription
Hi Shaun,
Yes, we have! I’m trying all avenues that crop up as I’m trying to break down this apparent brick wall!
I had noted that date of birth. Which is just even more confusing now as I have multiple different ones: 21st April 1875, 21st April 1877, 21st April 1887 and 30th April 1877. I keep coming up with more questions than answers!
I am probably very ‘wet behind the ears’ when it comes to this family tree malarkey, but I just don’t understand how I can find quite a few records for him (or, at least I think they are for him!) from 1901 onwards, but not before!
Kind regards,
Emma
1887 seems fairly unlikely given he married in 1901 - Age would have been 14!
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And who is this Thomas Woodhouse who is named as Francis’s father on the marriage certificate…?
Well, Thomas could be made up, or he could be the husband of Francis’ mother (i.e. either his mother married Thomas Woodhouse after Francis was born, or his mother was called Woodhouse and married Thomas ’Somebody’ and the clerk completing the marriage entry just assumed the father’s surname was Woodhouse).
There is Frank Woodhouse birth registered Q4 1874 Foleshill in Warwickshire, and then a possible bp 12.1.1876 to Thomas (a miner) and Sarah Jane - but the Q4 birth registration wouldn’t tie in with the April birth date. EDIT Selina Woodhouse bp the same date, place, parents; but Frank is accounted for in future censuses.
Are you able to upload the groom’s father’s details from the marriage entry?
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Have you considered a DNA test?
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Are you able to upload the groom’s father’s details from the marriage entry?
It's not easy to do that on a lookup request board. There is no facility to add an attachment.
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Are you able to upload the groom’s father’s details from the marriage entry?
It's not easy to do that on a lookup request board. There is no facility to add an attachment.
Are you sure? I can see an 'Attachments and other options' as I type.
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Are you sure?
Yes. The attachment function is disabled on all lookup boards.
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Could Emma ask mods to move the thread to the main Devon board?
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Hi Emma,
We've been corresponding about this on The Genealogist forum.
Have you seen that the army lists have a different birthdate for him - 30 April 1877: https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/89294649?mode=transcription
Hi Shaun,
Yes, we have! I’m trying all avenues that crop up as I’m trying to break down this apparent brick wall!
I had noted that date of birth. Which is just even more confusing now as I have multiple different ones: 21st April 1875, 21st April 1877, 21st April 1887 and 30th April 1877. I keep coming up with more questions than answers!
I am probably very ‘wet behind the ears’ when it comes to this family tree malarkey, but I just don’t understand how I can find quite a few records for him (or, at least I think they are for him!) from 1901 onwards, but not before!
Kind regards,
Emma
1887 seems fairly unlikely given he married in 1901 - Age would have been 14!
Indeed, but he may not have been completely honest about his age…? 🤔