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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Deb Clark Rennie on Friday 11 June 21 07:37 BST (UK)
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Just hoping for some help once more in translating some baptism records.
Trying to piece together some family history. My ancestor Julius Rau migrated to Australia in 1858 he was born in Chwalim (Poland) in 1839 his older brother Carl had also migrated but some years earlier they both married sisters that had arrived with their parents in 1849. They were all part of the early settlement of Geelong Victoria and started the settlement of Germantown which was later changed to Grovedale during WW1. From what I can see Carl was born further away in Tzciel which made me think that maybe their mother Anna Rau née Klemke had family there. The marriage between Anna Klemke and Gotthilf Rau took place in Chwalim or Kargowa which is just a few kilometres away.
One of the records I’m interested in is the baptism of a Ernest Heinrich Klemke as he also migrated to Australia and is buried in the Grovedale cemetery. I think I found his baptism as we are trying to determine if his mother was sister to Gotthilf Rau. I can’t see a father listed so wondered what other information is contained here. The baptism was in 1837
Any help would be appreciated
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Anno - In the year of 1837 Jungnick (Pastor)
1st Column
Number
15
2nd Column
Jahr und Monat / Year and month
1837 Januar
3rd 4th Column
Tag und Stunde des Geburts / day and hour of birth
25 - fünf und zwanzigsten Januar
Abends 6 (Sechs) Uhr / in the evening at 6 pm
5th 6th Column
Männlich / ehelich / unehelich Male legitimate /illegitimate
3rd illegitimate birth in 1837
7th 8th Column
Weiblich / ehelich / unehelich Female legitimate /illegitimate
9th Column
Name des Ortes / woher Name of the place / from where
Chwalim
10th Column
Tag der Taufe day of baptism
26 - sechs und zwanzigsten Januar
11th Column
Name des Tauflings baptized childs name
Ernst Heinrich
12th Column
Name des Predigers welcher getauft hat / name of the baptizing preacher
Jungnick
13th 14th Column
vor, zu und Geschlechtsname der Vater - die Mutter
christian names and Surnames of the father and mother
father – nicht genannt not named
Mother – Wilhelmine, geb(orene) nee Klemke
15th 16th Column
Religion des Vaters der Mutter Religion
Father -
Mother evang(elisch) Protestant
17th 18th Column
Stand und Gewerbe des Vaters der Pathen.
Standing and profession of the father and godparents
Father -
godparents
1 – Müller - miller
2 – Dito Frau
3 – Winzers Frau – wine growers wife
19th 20th Column
Name der Pathen männlich – weiblich
Names of the Godparents male – female
1 - Wilhelm Beyer
2 – Anne Sophie Brauer
3 – Eleanore Menke
Regards Dave
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go to this site
http://poznan-project.psnc.pl/index.php?lang=en
choose advanced search and enter
Wilhelmina Klemke
you´ll get 21 hits.
Maybe this one fits
Dave
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Awesome! Thank you so much Dave …you’ve helped me before. So that’s interesting so it seems she wasn’t a Rau but a Klemke so perhaps a sister to Anna Klemke who married Gotthilf Rau. I think the confusion might be on his death record Ernst Heinrich Klemke gives his fathers name as Henry Klemke and his mothers as Wilhelmine Ran (which I think if I ordered the record it would be Rau) he names one of his sons Carl Julius Klemke which are the names of the two Rau brothers that also came to Australia. Will also check out the link you sent.
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Hi following the data on the Poznan Project.
Marriage 1839.
Here´s the marriage spec.
same priest, same place as on Ernst Heinrichs birth cert
i think this is your woman :)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQQY-35W
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2116/images/4173677_00351?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=0c0a68ba60d568080ddb43f7ce1ad7ab&usePUB=true&_phsrc=BFU4&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=734997
Last entry.
If you think this is right, let me know and i´ll do a translation and transcription
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If you don’t mind translating …I think she’s worth investigating so I can figure out how she fits. Another descendant sent me this but we all know the lengths people go to in order to hide illegitimacy. So I need to perhaps work out Johanna Christianne Klemke who married Gotthilf Ernst Rau in 1826 in the same place. Perhaps their marriage might also shine some light? See if she’s a sister?
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A lso if I’m not pushing my luck this is my ancestors baptism are you able to translate his as well in case there is more information that might be helpful. Thank you for your help.
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2116/images/4173675_00164?ssrc=pt&treeid=89118704&personid=46588346653&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.75696469.1125598263.1623036002-1270371199.1593525610&pId=735096
Hope that link works it’s Heinrich Julius Rau
I tried to just upload an image but kept coming up error he’s at the bottom of the page
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Anno - In the year of 1839 Jungnick (Pastor)
1st Column
Number
19
2nd Column
Jahr und Monat / Year and month
1839 Februar
3rd 4th Column
Tag und Stunde des Geburts / day and hour of birth
12 – zwölften Februar
Früh um 1 Uhr / in the morning at 1 am
5th 6th Column
Männlich / ehelich / unehelich Male legitimate /illegitimate
13th legitimate birth in 1839
7th 8th Column
Weiblich / ehelich / unehelich Female legitimate /illegitimate
9th Column
Name des Ortes / woher Name of the place / from where
Chwalim
10th Column
Tag der Taufe day of baptism
24 - vier und zwanzigsten Februar
11th Column
Name des Tauflings baptized childs name
Heinrich Julius
12th Column
Name des Predigers welcher getauft hat / name of the baptizing preacher
Jungnick
13th 14th Column
vor, zu und Geschlechtsname der Vater - die Mutter
christian names and Surnames of the father and mother
father – Gotthilfe Ernst Rau
Mother – Joh(anna) Christiane geb(orene) nee Klemke
15th 16th Column
Religion des Vaters der Mutter Religion
Father - evang(elisch) Protestant
Mother - dito
17th 18th Column
Stand und Gewerbe des Vaters der Pathen.
Standing and profession of the father and godparents
Father – Windmüller / Windmiller
godparents
1 – Brauer - brewer
2 – Winzer – wine grower
3 – Schullehrer – Teacher
4 – Riemers Frau - loriners wife
5 – Försters Frau – foresters wife
6 – Mälzers Frau – maltsters wife
19th 20th Column
Name der Pathen männlich – weiblich
Names of the Godparents male – female
1 – Gottfried Schulz
2 – Joh(ann) Christoph Menke
3 – August Mittelstaedt
4 – Caroline Schirner
5 – Wilhelmine Fiedler
6 – Anna Sophie Brauer
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Here´s the marriage of Wilhelmine Und Habermann
Anno - In the year of 1839 Jungnick (Pastor)
1st Column
Number
33
2nd Column
Jahr und Tag der Trauung / Year and day of marriage
1839
14 vierzehnten November
3rd Column
Name des Predigers der getraut hat / name of the preacher performing the ceremony
Jungnick
4th Column
vor, zu und Geschlechtsname der Getrauten, Aufenthaltsort und
Gewerbe. Auch ob die Trauung in der Kirche oder in Hause geschehen
christian names and Surnames of the couple, place of residence and
profession. Also if the ceremony was in the church or at home.
Groß Schmoelln, der Müller Geselle Johann August
Habermann mit Wilhelmine geb(orene) Klemke aus
Chwalim Die Trauung geschah in die Kirche
Groß Schmoelln, the miller tradesman Johann August
Habermann with Wilhelmine nee Klemke aus
Chwalim. The ceremony was held in the church
5th Column
Ob schon verheiratet gewesen
und ob sie noch unter Eltern
der Vormündern stehen
If they had been previously married
and if they are still under guardianship of the Parents
beide noch unverheiratet
nur des Bräutigams
Eltern sind noch am Leben
both unmarried.
Only the Grooms parents are still living
6th 7th Column
Alter des Bräutigams – der Braut
Age of the groom – bride
27 – 26
8th 9th Column
Religion des Bräutigams – der Braut
evan(gelisch) - dito
10th Column
Einwilligung der Eltern
der Vörmünder
Consent of the parents or Guardians
die Eltern haben eingewilligt
the parents consented
11th Column
Datum des Aufgebots
Dates of banns
27 Oktober
9 November
10 November
12th Column
Etwaige Dispension
eventuell Dispension
nichts Erfor-
derlich ge-
wesen
was not neccassary
12th Column
Bemerkungen
Remarks
Nach der Aufge
nommenen Ver
handlung vom
23 Oktober hat
der Bräutigam
wegen sein schon
Vorhandenen unehe
lichen Kinde die
Pflichten für Er-
ziehung und Bildung
desselben zu sorgen
übernommen
after the proceedings from the 23 October the groom commited himself to care for the upbringing and education of the existing illegitimate children
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Wow! Thank you Dave how very interesting. So it does seem from the marriage translation that this is our girl and that her new husband consented to care for the illegitimate child. So there isn’t much doubt she’s a Klemke and not a Rau. It’s probable then that her son just used that name as a maiden name for his mother to cover his illegitimate birth.
Also thank you for the translation of Heinrich Julius Rau’s baptism … wonder what a wind Miller did exactly. I am very grateful for your help as I try to understand these people and where they were from and how they lived. I’m told the Rau brothers left their home for Australia to escape forced military enlistment so I’m trying to understand the times they lived in. I am also trying to work out why some of the children were baptised in a different area and if this was where the Rau family were from or the Klemke. I will find one of the baptisms. Having the names of the witnesses I thought might also help uncovered other family members.
The language barrier makes it difficult so your help is greatly appreciated.
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Dave … could this be her death
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/60749/images/45211_srep100^058046-00028?usePUB=true&_phsrc=viF8&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=4462562
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So sorry to bombard you Dave … but I’m wondering too if this is the death of Johanna Christiane Rau née Klemke’s death as she did have a daughter Emilie Alt née Rau
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2958/images/41910_prep808_000718-00388?treeid=89118704&personid=46588348740&hintid=1006740960471&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.79809751.1125598263.1623036002-1270371199.1593525610&pId=168360203
Still trying to piece them together
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Hi
the first link is Henriette Wilhelmine´s death in1884
the second link is the death of Emilie Alt nee Rau in 1905
I´ll translate them this evening for you.
A wind miller was the owner of a windmill.
Making flour, spices or animal food
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Thanks Dave … I was looking at this so assumed it was Wilhelmina’s death
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I have to confess to them all giving me quite the headache trying to link them together …I’m sure they are linked but not knowing who Johanna and Wilhelmine parents are I can’t prove they are sisters.
I’m positive there is one though.
This is some information shared on one of the ancestry trees in regard to Ernst Heinrich Klemke his birthdate on those trees is the same as the baptism you transcribed.
Ernst Heinrich Klemke had been observing many people leaving their Homeland for other Countries as increased population, poor economic conditions, religious and political persecutions and reprisals were making life difficult. Along with many others Ernst also wanted to avoid conscription into the Prussion Army. Relatives and Countrymen had written letters home telling of good fortune and opportunities in Australia. So on the 2nd June 1855, 18 year old Ernst Heinrich Klemke sailed from the Port of Hamburg with 130 other immigrants on the barque (barque means boat) 'Alster', a vessel of 130 tons, bound for Melbourne. The voyage took over three months with conditions on board being notoriously bad, with poor food and accommodation. The Captain of the 'Alster' was H Piening and the cargo contained a piano and spirits.When the bargue 'Alster' finally arrived at Port Phillip on the 10th of September 1855 the port was crowded. Victoria was at the height of the Gold Rush, sailing ships, schooners, barques and steamers lay at anchor as many crews had abandoned ship deserting to the gold fields of Bendigo and Ballarat. Passengers and crew of the 'Alster' were given grim reminders of the reasons for British Settlement in the Colonies where penal hulks such as 'Deborah', 'President', 'Sacremento' and 'Success' anchored in Hobsons Bay with work parties of convicts labouring off the Breakwater on construction of a Pier and in quarries along the foreshore. A new lifeErnst first set foot on Australian soil at Williamstown where he spent his first night in the pubs and houses along the waterfront. Ernst set his compass for the German village of Germantown, four miles from Geelong. Ernst obtained work at the Mt. Duneed Flour Mill as a 'Miller' where in a paddock at the old Mt. Duneed Flour Mill site is a large sandstone block on which once stood the motor which drove the Flour Mill, a relic of the past. Eight years after starting work at the flour mill Ernst married a local girl named Annie Betts who was born in Bothwell in Van Diemen's Land in 1842. Annie's father was transported to Australia as a convict for stealing, the parents of Annies mother were also convicts transported to Australia for stealing sheep. Ernst and Annie lived in a cottage near the corner of Heyers and Torquay Roads not far from St. Paul's Lutheran Church. They began a family of 10 children Wilhelmina, Henry, Alfred, Florence, Annie, Emily, Agnus, Alice, George and Carl where all 10 children attended the Grovedale State School. The family later moved to a small farmlet of five acres in the Dennys area on the west side of Torquay road where they grazed a few milking cows, grew vegetables and owned a horse and cart. The family prospered and later acquired a further 18 acres of land. Ernst started working at the Brearley Brothers Tannery at Marshalltown where a photograph was taken of the men outside the factory that shows Ernst with a full wild beard with a strong stocky build. Ernst enjoyed a jovial and amiable disposition and loved to hunt rabbits and other game in season such as quail taking his sons with him and supplying the local hotels with their catch and enjoying a few beers after a hard days work. In 1901 the Commonwealth of Australia came into existence and Ernst received his Letters of Naturalization on 18 June 1901 becoming an Australian Citizen. Eight years later on 31 August 1909 at the age of 72 Ernst Heinrich Klemke passed away.
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Death Henriette Wilhelmine Habermann nee Klemke
26
Schmöllen 28 November 1884
Vor den unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute der Persönlichkeit bekannt,
die Frau Mathilde Zirade geb. Habermann
Wohnhaft zu Klein Schmoellen
und zeigte an, dass ihre Mutter, die Wittwe Henriette
Wilhelmine Habermann geb. Klemke
71 Jahre alt, evangelischer Religion
Wohnhaft zu Klein Schmoellen
geboren zu Chwalim, Kreis Bomst. Zuletzt ver-
heirathet gewesen mit den verstorbenen
Müller Johann August Habermann.
Tochter des Müllers Johann Gottlob Klemke und dessen
Ehefrau. Vor- und Familienname unbekannt
zu Klein Schmoellen in der Anzeigenden Behausung
am acht und zwanzigst (28) November 1884,
vormittags um acht Uhr
verstorben sei
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, identity known,
Frau Mathilde Zirade geb. Habermann, resident in Klein Schmoellen and reported that her mother, the widow Henriette Wilhelmine Habermann nee Klemke, 71 years old, protestant
born in Chwalim. died in her home on the 28 November 1884 at 8 am
formerly married to the deceased miller Johann August Haberman
daughter of the miller, Johann Gottlob Klemke and his wife
„names unknown“
read aloud, approved and signed
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Death Emilie
384
Berlin 12 April 1905
Vor den unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute der Persönlichkeit durch Familienbuch anerkannt,
Olga Schirmer, Kohlenhändler Frau
Wohnhaft zu Berlin, Ruppinerstrasse 44
und zeigte an, dass Emilie Arlt geb.
Rau, Witwe des pensionirten Grenz
aufsehers Karl August Arlt
70 Jahre alt, evangelischer Religion
Wohnhaft zu Berlin bei Ihr
geboren zu Chwalim, Kreis Bomst
Tochter des verstorbenen Eheleute
Mühlenbesitzers Ernst Rau
und den :Vornamen unbekannt: geb
Klemke. Zuletze in Unruh-
stadt, Kreis Bomst, ersterer in Chwalim, wohnhaft
zu Berlin in der Anzeigenden Wohnung
am zehnten (10) April1905
nachmittags 10 Uhr
verstorben sei
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, identity verified by family book,
Olga Schirmer coal merchants wife
resident in Berlin, Ruggenerstrasse 44
and reported that Emilie Arlt nee Rau, widow of the retired border guard
Karl August Arlt
71 years old, protestant
resident in her home
born in Chwalim, Kreis Bomst
died in her home on the 10 April 1905 at 10 pm
daughter of the deceased couple: Windmill owner Ernst Rau and his wife
„first name unknown“ Klemke.
Last mentioned resident in Unruhstadt
first mentioned in Chwalim
read aloud, approved and signed
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death of Johanna Christiane Klemke??
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60749/images/45214_srep100%5E072086-00029?pId=5019611
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Thank you Dave … a few more pieces if the puzzle! I think you are correct that looks to be Johanna Christiane Rau née Klemke
Is there anything of help in her death record?
Thank you! How have I missed that one … maybe because it’s under Christiane but looks like her daughters name there too
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Death Emilie
384
Berlin 12 April 1905
Vor den unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute der Persönlichkeit durch Familienbuch anerkannt,
Olga Schirmer, Kohlenhändler Frau
Wohnhaft zu Berlin, Ruppinerstrasse 44
und zeigte an, dass Emilie Arlt geb.
Rau, Witwe des pensionirten Grenz
aufsehers Karl August Arlt
70 Jahre alt, evangelischer Religion
Wohnhaft zu Berlin bei Ihr
geboren zu Chwalim, Kreis Bomst
Tochter des verstorbenen Eheleute
Mühlenbesitzers Ernst Rau
und den :Vornamen unbekannt: geb
Klemke. Zuletze in Unruh-
stadt, Kreis Bomst, ersterer in Chwalim, wohnhaft
zu Berlin in der Anzeigenden Wohnung
am zehnten (10) April1905
nachmittags 10 Uhr
verstorben sei
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, identity verified by family book,
Olga Schirmer coal merchants wife
resident in Berlin, Ruggenerstrasse 44
and reported that Emilie Arlt nee Rau, widow of the retired border guard
Karl August Arlt
71 years old, protestant
resident in her home
born in Chwalim, Kreis Bomst
died in her home on the 10 April 1905 at 10 pm
daughter of the deceased couple: Windmill owner Ernst Rau and his wife
„first name unknown“ Klemke.
Last mentioned resident in Unruhstadt
first mentioned in Chwalim
read aloud, approved and signed
So frustrating can’t find a birth record for her so it just seems I can’t quite connect her to Johanna Christiane Rau née Klemke … can’t find a birth for her either.
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Death Christiane Rau
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60749/images/45214_srep100%5E072086-00029?pId=5019611
Unruhstadt, 26.3.1879
informing person – Hausbesitzerin (Houseowner) Emilie Arlt nee Rau
resident in Unruhstadt.
Reported that her mother, the Ausgedingerin (retired farmers wife) Christiane Rau nee Klemke
73 years 8 months 14 days old – evangelisch
resident in Unruhstadt.
Born in Chwalim, formerly married to the deceased Gottfried Ernst Rau
daughter of unknown parents
died in her home on the 25.3.1879 at 3:30 pm
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Have you got the Rau_Klemke marriage cert?
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=2116&h=2199925&indiv=try&ftm=1
There are no parents mentioned, but could have some other info of interest
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Have you got the Rau_Klemke marriage cert?
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=2116&h=2199925&indiv=try&ftm=1
There are no parents mentioned, but could have some other info of interest
I’ve seen it but as usual apart from names I can’t tell what’s in it … I thought I also found the death Gotthilf although his age is off going by the marriage .. will find it again.
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Death Christiane Rau
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60749/images/45214_srep100%5E072086-00029?pId=5019611
Unruhstadt, 26.3.1879
informing person – Hausbesitzerin (Houseowner) Emilie Arlt nee Rau
resident in Unruhstadt.
Reported that her mother, the Ausgedingerin (retired farmers wife) Christiane Rau nee Klemke
73 years 8 months 14 days old – evangelisch
resident in Unruhstadt.
Born in Chwalim, formerly married to the deceased Gottfried Ernst Rau
daughter of unknown parents
died in her home on the 25.3.1879 at 3:30 pm
Wow … I guess this at least gives us her approx birthdate and born in Chwalim like Wilhelmine
I just can’t find births for either of them
Thanks Dave for your help … surely the missing piece of the puzzle is out there.
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Seen this
an illegitimate girl from Henriette Wilhelmine
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/32230523:9866
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=61229&h=865706&indiv=try&o_cvc=Image:OtherRecord
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61229/images/0070415-00267?pId=1427016
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Hi Dave … I hadn’t seen that one but surely that wouldn’t be our Wilhelmine Habermann née Klemke? She would of only been 13 in 1826?
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Hi Dave thought I would try upload a photo of my ancestor Emma Amelia Rau daughter of Julius and Augustine Rau née Boehm. She was my first Australian born ancestor. You just have to love the hat.
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Dave … would you mind translating this one … I think it’s Gotthilf Erns Rau husband of Johanna Christiane
The age is out going by the marriage but I think it’s him
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=2116&h=201003&ssrc=pt&tid=89118704&pid=46588348608&usePUB=true
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Although it has Gotlieb not Gotthilf so maybe not
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Great photo, good looking girl
I posted a query in a Posen Forum asking for info on church books from Karge around 1800.
No luck. the only records known are from 1818 onwards.
You could try mailing the parish of Karge / Chwalim
http://www.kargowa.pl/de/content/die-evangelische-kirche-karge#
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Great photo, good looking girl
I posted a query in a Posen Forum asking for info on church books from Karge around 1800.
No luck. the only records known are from 1818 onwards.
You could try mailing the parish of Karge / Chwalim
http://www.kargowa.pl/de/content/die-evangelische-kirche-karge#
Thanks Dave … that probably explains it if there are no records before that time the mystery may remain .. I can only guess that Johanna and Wilhelmine were sisters or cousins of some type.
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Death Henriette Wilhelmine Habermann nee Klemke
26
Schmöllen 28 November 1884
Vor den unterzeichneten Standesbeamten erschien heute der Persönlichkeit bekannt,
die Frau Mathilde Zirade geb. Habermann
Wohnhaft zu Klein Schmoellen
und zeigte an, dass ihre Mutter, die Wittwe Henriette
Wilhelmine Habermann geb. Klemke
71 Jahre alt, evangelischer Religion
Wohnhaft zu Klein Schmoellen
geboren zu Chwalim, Kreis Bomst. Zuletzt ver-
heirathet gewesen mit den verstorbenen
Müller Johann August Habermann.
Tochter des Müllers Johann Gottlob Klemke und dessen
Ehefrau. Vor- und Familienname unbekannt
zu Klein Schmoellen in der Anzeigenden Behausung
am acht und zwanzigst (28) November 1884,
vormittags um acht Uhr
verstorben sei
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today, identity known,
Frau Mathilde Zirade geb. Habermann, resident in Klein Schmoellen and reported that her mother, the widow Henriette Wilhelmine Habermann nee Klemke, 71 years old, protestant
born in Chwalim. died in her home on the 28 November 1884 at 8 am
formerly married to the deceased miller Johann August Haberman
daughter of the miller, Johann Gottlob Klemke and his wife
„names unknown“
read aloud, approved and signed
Hi Dave … I wonder if this is her fathers death seeing as when she married Johann it said her parents were dead.
Does this give his occupation as Miller?
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=2116&h=196916&tid=&pid=&queryId=f8b7364c52b6183f321764527764dfed&usePUB=true&_phsrc=YXi1&_phstart=successSource
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Yes, i think you are spot on there.
The dates fit, good find
Death Gottlob Klemke
1827, 13 November
Chwalim
Gottlob Klemke – 58 years 6 months 4 days old
Windmüller – wind miller
Father, profession „Müller“ – miller, „Vorname unbekannt“ christian name unknown
Mothers name „ unbekannt“ unknown
männlich – male ehelich – legitimate
"Krankheit" illness „Auszehrung“ – could be tuberculosis or cachexia
How did the priest convince himself that the deceased was the same person. „bekannt“ known
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Here´s the transcription for the marriage of Gotthilf Rau und Johanne Klemke
Anno - In the year of 1826
1st Column
Number
35
2nd Column
Jahr und Tag der Trauung / Year and day of marriage
1826
28 November
3rd Column
Name des Predigers der getraut hat / name of the preacher performing the ceremony
Keeler
4th Column
vor, zu und Geschlechtsname der Getrauten, Aufenthaltsort und
Gewerbe. Auch ob die Trauung in der Kirche oder in Hause geschehen
christian names and Surnames of the couple, place of residence and
profession. Also if the ceremony was in the church or at home.
Klemzig, der Wassermüller Gotthilf Ernst
Rau, mit Jungfrau Johanne Christiane
geb(orene) Klemke zu Chwalim. Die Trauung
geschah in die Kirche
Klemzig, the water miller Gotthilf Ernst
Rau with spinster Johanne Christiane
nee Klemke from Chwalim. The ceremony
was held in the church
5th Column
Ob schon verheiratet gewesen
und ob sie noch unter Eltern
der Vormündern stehen
If they had been previously married
and if they are still under guardianship of the Parents
beide noch unverheiratet
auch die Eltern noch am Leben
both unmarried.
the parents are still living
6th 7th Column
Alter des Bräutigams – der Braut
Age of the groom – bride
27 – 22
8th 9th Column
Religion des Bräutigams – der Braut
evan(gelisch) - dito
10th Column
Einwilligung der Eltern
der Vörmünder
Consent of the parents or Guardians
haben eingewilligt
consented
11th Column
Datum des Aufgebots
Dates of banns
12, 19 26 November
12th Column
Etwaige Dispension
eventuell Dispension
nicht nöthig gewesen
not neccassary
12th Column
Bemerkungen
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Thanks Dave … another piece of the puzzle from those. So when Gotthilf Rau married Johanna Klemke in 1826 all parents were still alive.
And Johanna Klemke was from Chwalim but Gotthilf was from Klemzig what is now Klepsk is that right? And he was a water Miller when he married but perhaps took on the wind mill job once he married and was living in Chwalim. So I might see if there are any other Rau families in Klemzig.
I can only assume that Wilhelmina and Johanna were sisters or at the very least cousins. The fact that their sons all migrated to the same place in Australia is all too much of a coincidence for them not to be related.
Bit by bit with your help more pieces are coming together so thank you
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Do you have the children from Gotthilf Ernst and Johanna??
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I think so Dave most being born in Chwalim except for one or two one being Carl the oldest son
NameCarl August RauBirth Date13. Sep 1830 (13 Sep 1830)Birth PlaceTrzciel, Lubuskie, Polska (Poland)
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I found a Wilhelm Ernst Rau
Married Maria Groß 1857 in Berlin
Interested?
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Always worth a look
There seems a few Rau families in the area where Carl Rau was baptised so wondered if they had family there too? As why else would they be there as it seems a distance from Chwalim. I never foind the baptism of the eldest daughter who died age 13.
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Get it over to you later.
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Marriage Rau_Groß
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61229/images/0070193-00180?pId=3546441&lang=en-GB
nr 59
Wilhelm Ernst Rau, Miller from here
the legitimate, second, son of the Mill owner Gothilf Ernst Rau from Chwalim
born 19.11.1832, baptized 24
father gave his written consent, banns certificate ok
single
Spinster Maria Louise Therese Groß
illegitimate daughter of Wilhelmine Johanne Friederike Groß
born 19.6.1834, baptized 22
mother gave consent
single
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The same marriage in the church books Karge
here the bride is stated as beeing the foster Daughter of Friedrich Beringer
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2116/images/4173678_00168?pId=3429772
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Birth Maria Groß
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61229/images/0070167-00564?pId=3738931
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=9950&h=2003874&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=9950&ftm=1
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=61229&h=3738931&indiv=try&ftm=1
if you need any help reading these docs let me know
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Wow! Thank you Dave I’ve never come across Wilhelm Ernst Rau before now completely missed him but not much doubt with his place of birth parents etc found a few new cousins to add to my tree with him. More pieces of the puzzle.
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More Klemke’s in Chwalim
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yes, he was also a Windmüller
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Hmm wonder if he was a brother to Johanna and Wilhelmine .. will keep digging
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Dave … is there anything of interest in Carl’s baptism? I am curious as to why he was baptised there instead of back in Chwalim
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2116/images/4173699_00336?pId=1426032
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No sorry. nothing that would help solve that
Maybe he worked there for a couple of years
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Dave … are you still out there :-) I need some more help if it’s not too much trouble. I’m investigating the other side of the Prussian family, the Belicke line and they are a bit tricky as well but there are a few records that I thought might be helpful but of course I can’t read them. Let me know if you can help.
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Yes, I´ll have a look at them. Belicke seems to ring a bell, have we been in contact with that name.
Won´t have much time in the coming weks but I´ll see what I can do.
Maybe better per mail
Dave
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Thanks Dave … my ancestor was Carl Wilhelm Belicke he was born in 1850 and he married Emma Rau who you’ve been helping me with her side. Carl is a bit of mystery in that he was married when he came to Australia but for reasons unknown his wife and child/children didn’t join him and then he got Emma in a spot of trouble and married her. I’m told there were photos of his family back in then Prussia but were destroyed by a family member in WW2 out of fear as Carl was interred during WW1 even though he had been Australia many years and was naturalised he was eventually released due to poor health. So I’m trying to piece his family together. We know via records his father shared the same name and his mother was Fredericke Heckert. His home town wasn’t a big place and the earliest records are we believe via his grandfather Christian Belicke he was part of a group of Mennonites that settled the area. I’ve found a few Belicke’s and so their records might help me see where they might fit … no rush if you are busy. This is Carl
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This is one and going by the record this Belicke family are from same place Carl was from so wondering if there was anything helpful about Hermann
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send me the links to the doc´s. makes things a little easier
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https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?viewrecord=1&r=an&db=NeuruppinDeaths&indiv=try&h=143745
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Stüdenitz 3 Feb 1948
The widow Bertha Alwine Mathilde Tabbert nee Belicke in
resident in Stüdenitz, Havelbergerstrasse 82
died in her home on the 3 Febuary 1948
She was born in Franzthal, Kreis Friedeberg on 1 July 1881
registry office Vorbruch
Father, the dachdecker (roofer) Hermann Belicke
last resident in Netzbruch.
The deceased was married to the deceased Postagenten (post office owner) Paul Franz Eduard Tabbert from, Breddin.
Reporting person, Frau Hilda Tabbert nee Arndt from Stüdenitz, personaly known.
She reports the details of the death to the best of her knowledge.
Cause of death, pneumonia
Date of marriage 12.2.1909 in Franzthal
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Thank you so much that’s very helpful … definitely seems to be from the same area. Haven’t managed to find much more on Hermann yet.
This one we believe might be our ancestor Carl Wilhelm Belicke’s son born before Carl came to Australia. Still no idea why they didn’t come to Australia.
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61349&h=25804&ssrc=pt&tid=89118704&pid=222144947658&usePUB=true
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Nr 5
Blumental 27 Mai 1901
Vor dem unterzeichneten Standesbeamten: “Before the undersigned registrar”.
Erschien heute zum Zwecke der Eheschliessung: „appeared today for the purpose of marriage“
1. der Schnitter „reaper“ Paul Julius August Belicke
persönlich bekannt: “personally known”.
evangelischer Religion: „protestant“
Geboren „born“ am 7 Januar 1871, zu Franzthal
Wohnhaft: „resident in“ Rosenwinkel
Sohn „son“ des verstorbenen „deceased“ Carl Wilhelm Belicke
und dessen lebenden „still living“ Ehefrau „wife“ Pauline geborene Heckert
wohnhaft „resident“ in Franzthal
2. die Schnitterin „reaper woman“ Anna Marie Louise Gohlke
persönlich bekannt: “personally known”.
evangelischer Religion: „protestant“
Geboren „born“ am 17 März 1881, zu Steinhoefel
Wohnhaft: „resident in“ Rosenwinkel
Tochter „daughter“ des Hausmanns „farmer“ Carl Friedrich Wilhelm Gohlke
und dessen Ehefrau Marie Louise Antonia geborene „nee“ Krüger
wohnhaft „resident“ in Franzthal
Page 2
Witnesses:
3. der Vorschnitter „foreman or leading reaper“ Carl Wolgramm
der Persönlichkeit durch den vom Person be-
kannten Schnitter Paul Berlicke „identified by Paul Belicke“
26 jahre alt „years old“ wohnhaft „resident“ in Rosenwinkel
4. Der Schnitter August Gieske
der Persönlichkeit durch den vom Person be-
kannten Schnitter Paul Berlicke „identified by Paul Belicke“
33 jahre alt „years old“ wohnhaft „resident“ in Rosenwinkel
vorgelesen, genehmigt und unterschrieben
„Read aloud, verified and signed“
Paul Belicke
Anna Marie Louise Belicke nee Gohlke
Carl Wolgramm
August Gieske
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Thanks Dave … that’s very interesting that they have Carl as deceased … I need to try and find the marriage between Carl and Paula to determine if this is our Carl Wilhelm Belicke
But I’m guessing the only way they could move forward even if he was alive was to pretend he wasn’t because Carl had married Emma Rau by now and was still alive.
I think I also found a possible sister for Carl. Will pop that one up next.
Thank you so very much!
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I think this could be a sister to our Carl as same fathers name same area?
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61250&h=902985978&ssrc=pt&tid=89118704&pid=222303383562&usePUB=true
Possible death of her husband
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2958/images/40087_prep300_000242-00155?ssrc=pt&treeid=89118704&personid=222303383562&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.140364531.1708689804.1627221309-1270371199.1593525610&pId=45465188
I found at least two children for her Carl Otto but he died same year as birth and Franz Friedrich
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The first link you sent is the righthand side
Here´s the left
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61250/images/1270997-00107?ssrc=pt&treeid=89118704&personid=222303383562&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&pId=902985978
I´ll have a look at them later
Dave
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Left-hand side
Aufgebotene und Getraute in der Lichtenberger-Kirche
1st Column
Vor- und Zuname auch Stand und Wohnort des Bräutigams –
„bridesgrooms name, standing and place of residence“
Franz Eduard Wernike
Hilfsbahnwärter „railway linesman assistant“
in Friedrichsberg
2nd Column
Vor- und Zuname auch Stand und Wohnort des Vaters –
fathers name, „standing and place of residence“
Johann Gottlieb Wernike
Eigenthümer „property owner“
zu Sehlsgrund
3rd Column
Alter des Bräutigams „ bridegrooms age“
29 (12.4.1840)
4th Column
Ob Eltern oder der Vormund die Einwilligung gegeben und wie solches geschehen
„Who gave their consent, and how, parents or guardian
Eltern todt „Parents deceased“
5th Column
Ob er schon verehelicht gewesen und wie die Ehe getrennt worden
„If he was married before and how was the marriage seperated“
unverheirathet „unmarried“
Right-hand side
Im Jahr 1869
6th Column
Vor- und Zuname der Braut – „brides name“
Auguste Emilie Belicke
zu Frankenthal
7th Column
Vor- und Zuname auch Stand und Wohnort des Vaters –
fathers name, „standing and place of residence“
Carl Wilhelm Belicke
Eigenthümer „property owner“
zu Frankenthal
8th Column
Alter der Braut „ brides age“
25 (18.9.1844)
9th Column
Ob Eltern oder der Vormund die Einwilligung gegeben und wie solches geschehen
„Who gave their consent, and how, parents or guardian
der Vater hat eingewilligt „father gave his consent“
10th Column
Ob er schon verehelicht gewesen und wie die Ehe getrennt worden
„If he was married before and how was the marriage seperated“
unverheirathet „unmarried“
11th Column
Tag der Copulation mit Buchstaben und Zahlen „Date of marriage in letters and numbers“
Aufgebot XV. XV1. XV11 p(ost) Tr(initatis)
Trauung „marriage“
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Death Franz Wernicke
154
Lichtenberg am 23.3.1895
Vor den unterzeichneten Standesbeamte erschien heute,
der Persönlichkeit nach durch Trauschein anerkannt.
Der Holzbildhauer Johann August Reinhold Ide
wohnhaft zu Friedrichsberg, Frankfurterchausee 90
und zeigte an dass der Eisenbahnarbeiter Franz Wernicke
54 Jahre, 11 Monate alt, evangelischer Religion
wohnhaft zu Friedrichsberg, Frankfurterchausee 86
geboren zu Sehlsgrund, Kreis Friedeberg in der
Neumark, verheiratet mit Auguste Wernicke
geborene Belicke, wohnhaft zu Friedberg, Frank-
furterchausee 86,
Sohn der Wernickeischen
Eheleute, beide verstorben und zuletzt wohn-
haft zu Sehlsgrund, weitere Angaben unbekannt
zu Friedrichsberg in der eigenen Wohnung
am 23 März 1895
vormittags um Fünf ein Viertel Uhr
verstorben sei.
Der Anzeigende erklärte vom vor-
bezeichneten Sterbefall, aus eigenen Wissenschaft
unterrichtet zu sein.
-------------
Before the undersigned registrar appeared today the wood sculptor
Johann August Reinhold Ide, identified by his marriage certificate
resident in Friedrichsberg, Frankfurterchausee 90
and reported that the railway worker Franz Wernicke, protestant, born in Sehlsgrund
Neumark, resident in Friedrichsberg, Frankfurterchausee 86
died in his home on the 23 march 1895 at 5:15 am at the age of 54 years and 11 months
he was married to Auguste Wernicke nee Belicke
Son of the Wernicke‘s, both deceased, last resident in Sehlsgrund, no further details known.
The reporting person declared the details to the best of his knowledge
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Your a legend thanks Dave … we are away from home at the moment in Darwin (Northern Territory of Australia) visiting my husbands sister and her husband. We will be back home Monday. So it seems one of the sons was still alive at the death of the father.
I don’t think to date I’ve found any baptisim records for the Belicke’s