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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Smudger1962 on Sunday 13 June 21 18:18 BST (UK)
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Hi
For anyone who has a better knowledge of Scottish Marriage records than me. I've hit a brick wall with a great grandmother x 3 daily because her fathers name is not shown on the marriage record that I found and there are other Mary Blair's born in the same area around the same time. Im grasping at straws a little but the record reads as follows: Benjamin Holmes and Mary Blair both of this parish were booked the 28th. It's the booked bit I was wondering about is this just the Banns of marriage if so there may be another record out there with the information that I'm looking for. Any ideas greatly appreciated
Ian
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From what you have written, I assume what you are looking at is an OPR from before Statutory Registers begin in 1855. That being the case, what information you get is very variable. Many, many OPRs only list what are indeed Banns (a frequent wording goes something like Benjamin Holmes and Mary Blair "gave their names for proclamation in order of marriage"). Actual marriages are sometimes added to those ("and were married on ....") sometimes listed on a separate page but frequently not listed at all.
So in short, yes you might find something further, but it is by no means certain.
The second thing, and the unfortunate one from your perspective is that the majority of OPRs do not list parents of either bride or groom. Again, it's variable from parish to parish, from time to time or even from one clerk to another, but the most common format is just the names of the two people "giving their names." If you are lucky, you might also get something like "Thomas Main, of Ballochnie" or witness names, but in general parents are only listed when they are of a certain status (eg Elizabeth, the daughter of Mr Moody).
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If you let us know the names, date and place of marriage it could help.
Were the couple still alive in 1855? If so, the names of both their parents will appear on their death certificates. Do the witnesses to the baptisms of any children give a clue? If they followed the 'traditional' naming pattern, the second son would have the maternal grandfather's name and the first daughter the maternal grandmother's name. Of course, not everyone followed this pattern and if both grandfathers/grandmothers had the same name it can throw things out.
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Hi Thanks for that
The names were Benjamin Holmes and Mary Blair they were married on 28th Feb 1818 Abbey Parish Renfrewshire. Benjamin was born in Northallerton But Mary was born is Scotland. They had two children in Scotland Mary and Sarah but then moved South. Mary Passed away 27th November 1867 in Tynemouth.
Ian
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Them moving to England makes it harder, as a census will probably just give Mary's birthplace as 'Scotland', rather than mentioning a specific parish and her mother's name will not appear on an English death certificate. The Abbey parish kirk session minutes are not on ScotlandsPeople, so no way of finding anything there either. Were any of the witnesses to the children's baptism called Blair?
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Maybe you've thought of this, but, try to find siblings with Scottish death certificates - obviously the parents' names will be the same!
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Where did you find you information ?
Have you used ScotlandsPeople
You have to buy credits to see actual document's but you can look at lists
There are lots of Mary BLAIR s in Renfrewshire I have some in my tree .
Do any of the children have it as a middle name ?
Can you tell us their ages at marriage or from census and occupations .
Every little bit of information helps.
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Hi All
GR2. Unfortunately no witnesses shown on the baptism records of Mary or Sarah (Viewed on Scotlands People) You are correct about the census It just says born Scotland. The first Son was named Thomas the second Benjamin and the 3rd George (Benjamin's fathers name) I suppose that would make Thomas the most likely name, but I can't see Thomas Blair with Daughter Mary. The two most likely would be Archibald Blairs but there are two of them in the area with Daughters Mary born around this time and there are others.
Brooksburns. No death certificates in Scotland but I didn't realise that parents names were shown on scottish death certificates.
Abufera32. Yes it's the old parish records and you are right no parents shown.
Brigidmac. No middle names as far as I can see, The children's baptism records, and Benjamin and Mary's marriage records are from Scotlands people. They would both have been about 20 when married in 1818 Benjamin at the time was a Weaver an I Suspect moved to the area to work.
Thanks for all the input
Ian
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Best of luck and let us know
if when you make progress
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Practically all of the mothers in my tree went back home to their mother's house to have their first one or two children. The reason being was that their mother had experience of child birth and would instruct their daughters.
I have one bride, living in London with her coachman husband, travelling all the way up to Yorkshire to be with her family to have her first baby. My own grandmother was living with her husband in Glasgow but travelled across to be with her mother in Leith to have her first child.
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Two more children born to Benjamin Holmes and Mary Blair. James Holmes and Benjamin Holmes, born 23/2/1823, baptized 19/6/1824, St Mirin's, Paisley. Also, another likely birth. John Holmes, no birth date, baptized 16/5/1819, St Mirin's, Paisley. Father: Benjamin Holmes. Mother: Mary Holmes. [OPR Births - Roman Catholic Church] ScotlandsPeople.
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Two more children born to Benjamin Holmes and Mary Blair. James Holmes and Benjamin Holmes, born 23/2/1823, baptized 19/6/1824, St Mirin's, Paisley. Also, another likely birth. John Holmes, no birth date, baptized 16/5/1819, St Mirin's, Paisley. Father: Benjamin Holmes. Mother: Mary Holmes. [OPR Births - Roman Catholic Church] ScotlandsPeople.
Thanks I had not seen them. I think both John and James would have been old enough to be missing from the 1841 census. I do have a son named Benjamin born in Northallerton in 1834 but it's possible that the first Benjamin passed away in infancy. Were the birth and baptism dates the same for James and Benjamin? and also I suppose that this might also suggest that Mary's father was called James. Interesting.
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Two more children born to Benjamin Holmes and Mary Blair. James Holmes and Benjamin Holmes, born 23/2/1823, baptized 19/6/1824, St Mirin's, Paisley. Also, another likely birth. John Holmes, no birth date, baptized 16/5/1819, St Mirin's, Paisley. Father: Benjamin Holmes. Mother: Mary Holmes. [OPR Births - Roman Catholic Church] ScotlandsPeople.
In addition to what I said in my previous post I have now viewed the record and it looks like the Name Benjamin was entered originally and then was lined out and James was written above. either way we have one more family member. I haven't looked at John yet but it looks like he was the first Son. so James may well be Mary's Fathers Name.
Cheers